Holocaust Day in History Class
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Old krow
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Very true. What's the first order? The very first order that we vowed to keep? How does that Oath go again?
jonnyc
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"In reality, I doubt you'll ever have an unbiased discussion on this topic in most school environments. Schools these days seem to have taken a very liberal turn, and the very idea that violence can be countered with violence is extremely objectionable to many of the teachers I've met. Moreover, the idea that citizens should be armed as a means of preventing a war is equally objectionable within the modern institutions of education, and I think you'll be fighting an uphill battle if you attempt to argue otherwise."
"Unfortunately, a lot of these people are teachers. Not only are they misinforming kids about how the real world works (people who are willing to use violence to get what they want only respond to violence in return), but they can also crush dissenting opinions in their classroom.
If lil Johnny says the Jews should have had guns, he gets a C. Susie over there who recommends being a pacifist back in Nazi Germany gets an A+."
Well, not in my classes; a gun-loving, Jewish, History teacher. My Juniors are actually starting the 2nd Amendment tomorrow...always an intereating unit.
"Unfortunately, a lot of these people are teachers. Not only are they misinforming kids about how the real world works (people who are willing to use violence to get what they want only respond to violence in return), but they can also crush dissenting opinions in their classroom.
If lil Johnny says the Jews should have had guns, he gets a C. Susie over there who recommends being a pacifist back in Nazi Germany gets an A+."
Well, not in my classes; a gun-loving, Jewish, History teacher. My Juniors are actually starting the 2nd Amendment tomorrow...always an intereating unit.
Sgt.Saputo
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^ This. I had a teacher who told me we no longer print money. Yes, because the new money comes from a magic money pixie.
mordechaianiliewicz
Member
The point I believe for the Jews was after Kristallnacht. Combine armed resistance with a pipeline out of Germany.
But, imagine the dificulty of armed resistance combined with a "pipeline out of Germany"... not easy. In fact, very dificult.
Basically, the means to resist need to be present even when it appears that you are safer than ever. In fact, after WWI, France would have been the suspected "home of the Holocaust." (Look at the trial of Dreyfus).
Many would think it paranoid to think in this manner, but it fits in with reality.
But, imagine the dificulty of armed resistance combined with a "pipeline out of Germany"... not easy. In fact, very dificult.
Basically, the means to resist need to be present even when it appears that you are safer than ever. In fact, after WWI, France would have been the suspected "home of the Holocaust." (Look at the trial of Dreyfus).
Many would think it paranoid to think in this manner, but it fits in with reality.
Deanimator
Member
If I'd been alive in 1914, if somebody had asked me which country would have been most likely to try to totally eliminate the Jews, my first choice would have been Russia and my second France. Germany wouldn't have been in the top ten.
The Holocaust was the result of the alignment of a perfect storm of psychopathologies in Germany.
It is hard to have any type of resistance without communication/organization.
Ten like minded guys get together and so what? Add more and their will be a spy some where in the wood pile. Look at what happens to the Militias here in this country over and over again. The Jews had their own people tattling on them for personal gain so has anything changed? Any group who opposes the status quo is usually the minority. We had colonialist tattling to the Britts for personal gain and the fear of change of status quo.
The Jews had the same problem. If six million of them could have stood as a united front then maybe they would have had a chance but I doubt it. Were there not twenty five million Russians killed or was that Stalin who had his own country men killed? Seems to me when it's killin time if a tyrant has the backing then it is already to late. Genocide has not stopped and is going on to this day. Never again sounds like from my cold dead hands. Beautiful words but hollow without the will and the force to back them up.
German military and even the police were very well armed. What the Jews were to take their knives to the gun fight?
Evil is evil and a population is easy to pick and choose who dies.
OK tonight we are going to the east side and round up everyone who drives a Ford for we all know Fords are ??? pick an excuse. Be aggressive and be safe now load up!
Some countries where the population is armed you wouldn't capture all the citizens at once no need to.
Intimidate, infiltrate, and exterminate those who oppose your will. Sound familiar? It has only happened since the beginning of recorded time.
Ten like minded guys get together and so what? Add more and their will be a spy some where in the wood pile. Look at what happens to the Militias here in this country over and over again. The Jews had their own people tattling on them for personal gain so has anything changed? Any group who opposes the status quo is usually the minority. We had colonialist tattling to the Britts for personal gain and the fear of change of status quo.
The Jews had the same problem. If six million of them could have stood as a united front then maybe they would have had a chance but I doubt it. Were there not twenty five million Russians killed or was that Stalin who had his own country men killed? Seems to me when it's killin time if a tyrant has the backing then it is already to late. Genocide has not stopped and is going on to this day. Never again sounds like from my cold dead hands. Beautiful words but hollow without the will and the force to back them up.
German military and even the police were very well armed. What the Jews were to take their knives to the gun fight?
Evil is evil and a population is easy to pick and choose who dies.
OK tonight we are going to the east side and round up everyone who drives a Ford for we all know Fords are ??? pick an excuse. Be aggressive and be safe now load up!
Some countries where the population is armed you wouldn't capture all the citizens at once no need to.
Intimidate, infiltrate, and exterminate those who oppose your will. Sound familiar? It has only happened since the beginning of recorded time.
Zombie_Flesh
Member
Grandpa Wisdom
I remember vividly being outside with my grandfather - he was teaching me about the constellations. He said if you look real closely at the moon you can see a golf cart. I didn't believe him he said that in 1969 we flew a man to the moon and he got to drive around in a golf cart and they didn't need to bring it back so they left it there.
He then went on to tell me that when he was my age (12ish) his teacher told him that the moon was SOOO far away that it would be impossible to go there.
He then said "So what I am trying to tell you is that nothing is impossible and your teachers are full of <blank>"... "Lets go back inside its cold out here"
I remember vividly being outside with my grandfather - he was teaching me about the constellations. He said if you look real closely at the moon you can see a golf cart. I didn't believe him he said that in 1969 we flew a man to the moon and he got to drive around in a golf cart and they didn't need to bring it back so they left it there.
He then went on to tell me that when he was my age (12ish) his teacher told him that the moon was SOOO far away that it would be impossible to go there.
He then said "So what I am trying to tell you is that nothing is impossible and your teachers are full of <blank>"... "Lets go back inside its cold out here"
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The armed resistance to tyranny and genocide has a long history - some successful and some not - but resistance is better than going like cattle to the slaughter - "Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves." Churchill
As always culture and heritage are the keys - enough of the population must have sufficient emotional and mental commitment to freedom that they will protest and speak out and organize to resist before physical violence or the "final solution" is initiated by the government or the powers that be. That is what is so encouraging about things like the tea party movement and the Appleseed project - they from my experience are very focused on teaching the precepts of liberty and their history and the tools - voting - organizing - and marksmanship - to maintain freedom. Unfortunately the victims of the Holocaust did not have the mindset of freedom - more one of survivors through enduring and suffering which doesn't work when you are being exterminated. I guess the boy scouts are right about always being prepared. Or what is the old roman quote: “Si vis pacem, para bellum” - If you want peace, prepare for war.
As always culture and heritage are the keys - enough of the population must have sufficient emotional and mental commitment to freedom that they will protest and speak out and organize to resist before physical violence or the "final solution" is initiated by the government or the powers that be. That is what is so encouraging about things like the tea party movement and the Appleseed project - they from my experience are very focused on teaching the precepts of liberty and their history and the tools - voting - organizing - and marksmanship - to maintain freedom. Unfortunately the victims of the Holocaust did not have the mindset of freedom - more one of survivors through enduring and suffering which doesn't work when you are being exterminated. I guess the boy scouts are right about always being prepared. Or what is the old roman quote: “Si vis pacem, para bellum” - If you want peace, prepare for war.
GambJoe
Member
Had the Jews fought it probably would not have mattered. The brutality inflicted on them in Europe and the Middle East since the the Caesars taught them that figthing back wasn't the way they could survive. They had no way of escaping Europe. The US and others restricted imigration, and no one actually believed what the Nazi's and their sympathiser's in Europe were about to do.
If it weren't for the Japanesse attacking Pearl Harbor, and the America entering the war, I'm afraid there wouldn't be any Jew's left in Europe, Russia and the Middle East and maybe the world.
If it weren't for the Japanesse attacking Pearl Harbor, and the America entering the war, I'm afraid there wouldn't be any Jew's left in Europe, Russia and the Middle East and maybe the world.
xcgates
Member
Seems as good as any place to roll out what just may be my favorite quote of all time:
- John Stuart Mills
sniper5
Member
One thing I was taught from an early age by a very intelligent self educated man with a 3rd grade education (my grandfather): "Your education is the only thing you ever really own. It's yours. What you put in your head is something no one can take away from you." His greatest gift, it taught me the power of knowledge. Another thing he taught me: "What decides the outcome of a battle is the difference between how good you are and how good your enemy THINKS you are."
What I taught both my boys:
You don't win wars by just mindlessly shooting and stabbing each other. You win wars by attacking and destroying an enemy's supply lines and communications.
The main tool you use to do that is intel. As an adult you get your intel from reading. You read to get an education, you go to school to get a degree. If someone tells you not to read something, they are trying to deprive you of intel. So, if someone tells you that you can't read something, for whatever reason, you read it. As soon as you can, before they take it away. Then store it in your head for the day you may need it. No one EVER, ANYWHERE, has learned themselves to death. And no one has ever wished they were dumber. And NEVER let anyone know your real capabilities. Don't show off or try to impress. My oldest son is a martial artist, boxer, pistol shooter and shotgunner, and denies any knowledge of any of it.
Jeff Cooper said it very succinctly: "You don't fight with a gun, you fight with your mind. The gun is just the cutting edge." My source for the quote is that I watched him say it.
What I taught both my boys:
You don't win wars by just mindlessly shooting and stabbing each other. You win wars by attacking and destroying an enemy's supply lines and communications.
The main tool you use to do that is intel. As an adult you get your intel from reading. You read to get an education, you go to school to get a degree. If someone tells you not to read something, they are trying to deprive you of intel. So, if someone tells you that you can't read something, for whatever reason, you read it. As soon as you can, before they take it away. Then store it in your head for the day you may need it. No one EVER, ANYWHERE, has learned themselves to death. And no one has ever wished they were dumber. And NEVER let anyone know your real capabilities. Don't show off or try to impress. My oldest son is a martial artist, boxer, pistol shooter and shotgunner, and denies any knowledge of any of it.
Jeff Cooper said it very succinctly: "You don't fight with a gun, you fight with your mind. The gun is just the cutting edge." My source for the quote is that I watched him say it.
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