Home-Defense and Gun Confiscation?

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Just out of curiosity, are there are RKBA groups that help support the average Joe that can't afford $20k in legal fees if he/she had to use a gun in SD? You would think that manufactures would jump all over that. It would be great advertisement for the effectiveness of the product.

Not a lawyer, not even a sea-lawyer, just asking.
 
As to ammo choice, I'm very much in the camp of practice with what you shoot.
And those $2 apeice "wonder rounds" might work, but I've never put the couple hundred down range to know "for sure" they'd work.

If you are in an apartment, or a house built in the last decade or so in a high-density subdivision, I'd probably select--well, I was about to suggest a 147gr for the slightly lower velocity, but I just looked at the prices on ammoengine and that's scary (yeah, been a couple-three years since I bought 9mm).

So, with the prices being what they are, I'd suggest stoking up on S&B or Win Silvertips, and practice, box by box, until you know exactly where those rounds are going. And also if the arm you own has any quirks at all--like first round wide; seventh round, the empty hits you in the forehead; any of that. That you have regulated the sights that your chosen HD round (not some magazine's or forums's favorite) hits dead-on. All other rounds are measured in offset to that.

So, you may need to find an FMJ that groups like your HD ammo (which you need to shoot often enough to know that), but is consitantly n" l/r and m" u/d from that standard.
 
As others have said it varies by location.

A member a local gun forum that frequent shot and killed and intruder in his home a few years ago. Two in the chest with an SKS. No charges filed, his gun was not confiscated.
 
It depends on the circumstances of the shoot and the attitude of local law enforcement in general in the area you live. I would personally assume that I will have "the gun" taken as evidence for a while. But this won't deter me from getting whatever I want and using it if necessary.
 
Not much sleep just got in from yote and jackrabbit depopulation. My side did well!

Laws are laws and evidence must be collected, but just a thought; some gang member tries to do your house and family. He leaves after you are finished in a body bag. LE takes your one and only HD weapon or worse a .45 was used in the HD but all weapons from you house to include a shotgun is taken as evidence. Would or could this be reasonable procedure?

Rest of the local yocal gang bangers/cartel dudes or a couple of friends of the deceased decide on a little revenge. You have been disarmed by the aforementioned action and can expect your guns back at some later date if they are not lost in the process.

I wonder if you could go out and buy a HD weapon the day after the break-in? Just early morning thoughts. I would think in my clouded lack of sleep brain that the revenge thing might be a very real possibility?
 
You have been disarmed by the aforementioned action and can expect your guns back at some later date if they are not lost in the process.

I wonder if you could go out and buy a HD weapon the day after the break-in? Just early morning thoughts. I would think in my clouded lack of sleep brain that the revenge thing might be a very real possibility?
Click to expand...

Never keep them all in the same place. :)

Seriously, I'm not paranoid. My father has several of mine and I have a few of his because that's what families do. We've occasionally gotten confused because we have several 1100's between us, so who knows who's is who's anymore.

At any event, pops would loan me one of his or give me one of mine back in such an event. If family fails for whatever reason, I can't imagine not having any firearm toting buddies that would be willing to loan me one in such a situation...or come house sit with me for that matter. I have at least one close friend that I know would loan me a rifle or pistol and ammo for it...and a spare trigger finger if things were as desperate as you described in that situation.
 
I was thinking loaded with glasers pow'rball or MagSafe pre fragmented ammunition it would make a sufficient HD gun.
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These are all but useless, and not worth the money you pay for them.

There are many excellent handguns on the market in the $500-$600 range, and you mentioned two of them in post #2. It doesn't seem to me that you will need to compromise in quality, or budget.
 
Listen to Defense Minister. I will not trust my life to frangible ammo. It's basically like birdshot suspended in a gel. There is a reason we use bullets that will penetrate at least 12" in most circumstances. Handgons are poor man stoppers to begin with. In using frangible ammo, you have just dropped the odds even lower.

There is this idea floating around out there of 'overpenetration'. There is no such thing. There's just penetration, and you would rather have too much than too little. Even if you do have a magic round that hits a human target, does devastating damage throughout their body, and never comes out the other side, there is still no guarantee you will hit with every round. This is why Rule #4 ALWAYS applies to EVERY person shoots a gun for ANY reason. On the range, in the home, on the battlefield. You are responsible for whatever that bullet hits. If you think there are too many ways to hit things in your house that you don't want to, change your home and your tactics. If you live somewhere that this is just impossible, (like an apartment complex,) you might think hard about whether a gun is good for you at all. (And do what I did. MOVE.)
 
Many defense advocates suggest your homeowner's/renter's policy can help shield you from the COST of a lawsuit in the event of a SD shooting.

That's one of the great things about Colorado's "make my day" law, it's really there to shield a homeowner from lawsuits as well as defining the use of force.
 
I wouldn't count on home owner insurance for any help in a self defense shooting.

I have looked into this with three major insurance companies and they all said the same thing: self defense, even if fully justified, is a "willful act". Willful acts that create liability are excluded from coverage on their home owner policies.

I would ask for confirmation in writing if your insurance carrier says you would be covered.

This organization offers some help:
http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/
 
How much is your life worth? :confused:

I have $1100 into the XD45C that's sitting on the desk next to my laptop right now. It is my EDC and home defense weapon and I cannot afford to lose it. It is the ideal tool for it's job for me. I fully expect that if I ever fire, or even draw it, in self defense I will never see it again. That's OK. If it has been confiscated that means it has done it's job and was well worth $1100... or $11k for that matter! I would not hesitate to throw it down a flight of concrete stairs, run over it with my truck, or do just about anything else with it if that action helped to keep someone from getting hurt. It's an object and it can and will be replaced. A person, any person, cannot. Choose the best tool for the job for you regardless of cost. This is one instance where money should not even enter into the equation.
:cool:
 
I chose a FM high power pistol. Same handling and ergonomics as the original, Just at half the cost.
 
Has it started?
Yes, I know this guy was stupid, but are we being "conditioned"?


From the "Arizona Daily Star"

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_5033b598-dd29-11df-b3b7-001cc4c03286.html

Home / News / Local / Crime
ATF investigation
Tucson police ID man killed in confrontation with federal agents
StoryImage (3)Tucson police ID man killed in confrontation with federal agents
By Alex Dalenberg and Jamar Younger Arizona Daily Star Arizona Daily Star | Posted: Thursday, October 21, 2010 8:33 am

Tucson police say Charles Thomas Peterson, 73, was shot and killed Thursday morning in a confrontation with agents from the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives. Peterson was declared deceased at the scene. .
Loading… .
..A 73-year-old man was shot and killed Thursday morning during a confrontation with federal agents at an apartment complex on the city's north side, officials said.

Officers rushed to Conerstone Apartments on the corner of North Stone Avenue and West Roger Road about 8:30 a.m. after emergency calls about gunshots being fired, said Sgt. Matt Ronstadt, a spokesman for the Tucson Police Department.

Agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives were at the complex investigating Charles Thomas Peterson, who they suspected of obtaining firearms and ammunition despite being prohibited from doing so because of previous felony convictions, said Special Agent Tom Mangan, a bureau spokesman.

Three agents confronted Peterson near the apartment parking lot. Mangan said the agents had a search warrant for Peterson's apartment and had been surveilling him. They wanted to contact him outside his apartment because, during their investigation, they discovered Peterson had purchased numerous firearms, officials said.

When agents confronted Peterson they noticed he was wearing a handgun in a holster. The agents warned him not to go for his gun, Mangan said, but he drew it anyway.

The man was struck several times and died at the scene, Mangan said.



He had three pistols and some extra ammunition in his home.
 
I'm not sure as to where some of you all live specifically those saying it's going to cost 10, 20 or more thousand dollars in lawyers fees and most likely loss of the gun. Here in Tennessee if one must shoot another because that other invaded his home, broke into that home and was caught by the homeowner, did a home invasion (hearing alot of those happening lately, damn drugs!) or any other LEGITIMATE reason, thus a justified shooting. The homeowner doesn't lose his firearm. Charges aren't pressed and from what I've heard sure it's a pain, but IF IT"S JUSTIFIED it get's cleared up rather quickly and the gun isn't confiscated.
Now maybe what I'm hearing is BS but it's coming from reliable sources.
 
There is a lot of misinformation and conjecture posted here, Op I suggest you look into your state laws regarding self defense, as well as look up existing case law on the matter. (in your state, of course) I feel like of lot of these responses are "worst case scenario" types.

One thing is certain, the gun will be confiscated while the investigation is underway. If it is a true self defense shooting, that could be as little as days, or as long as weeks. If its not immediately clear, expect a longer delay.

I can't speak for others, but here in Florida, the self defense laws are excellent. Assuming a legit self defense shooting, you cannot be charged, nor can you be held civilly liable, by the person you shot, or if they died, their family. We also have a castle doctrine law, which basically states if anyone unlawfully forces their way into your home or vehicle, it is presumed they have violent intent, which gives you the right to defend yourself with deadly force.

If you have problems understanding the legal wording of your own state, consider talking to a lawyer. Sure it won't be free, but knowledge is the most powerful of weaponry.
 
Any department that still engraves numbers on evidence is behind the times and opening itself to getting sued for damaging somebodys property. I'm in LE and I'll repeat it for emphasis. Items taken as evidense are still YOUR PROPERTY. You should expect to get your gun back in the same condition it was taken at the end of ALL legal processes. Appeals etc. can drag on forever. And yes you may have to actively ask for your stuff back.
 
I agree with Cathy, how is law enforcement enforcing the law on-topic here?

And to Augustino- Good luck. Whether or not you have Castle doctrine, Stand your Ground law, evidence, and everything else on your side, there is still a process to determine whether or not you broke the law. All it takes is a rookie ADA trying to make a name for himself and a judge that has been sleeping on the couch for a couple of weeks, and you will be spending your kids' college money on lawyers.
 
Sevenfaces said:
There is a lot of misinformation and conjecture posted here, Op I suggest you look into your state laws regarding self defense, as well as look up existing case law on the matter. (in your state, of course) I feel like of lot of these responses are "worst case scenario" types.

One thing is certain, the gun will be confiscated while the investigation is underway. If it is a true self defense shooting, that could be as little as days, or as long as weeks. If its not immediately clear, expect a longer delay.

I can't speak for others, but here in Florida, the self defense laws are excellent. Assuming a legit self defense shooting, you cannot be charged, nor can you be held civilly liable, by the person you shot, or if they died, their family. We also have a castle doctrine law, which basically states if anyone unlawfully forces their way into your home or vehicle, it is presumed they have violent intent, which gives you the right to defend yourself with deadly force.

If you have problems understanding the legal wording of your own state, consider talking to a lawyer. Sure it won't be free, but knowledge is the most powerful of weaponry.
Click to expand...
We have the same thing in Ohio. Someone breaks into your home, they are there to do you harm. For me, I became a CCW holder to protect my family, myself and my property in that order.

About a year ago, some punks broke into my house while I was gone and stole all my weapons, lockbox and a bunch of other stuff. Several months before, I had sold a .45 ACP to a buddy for $350. I called him and told him what happened and with out missing a beat he replied $200 and it's yours again. SO yeah even if they took all my guns, I have a friend that would loan me several if I needed and he would probably come house sit with me if I were involved in a HD shooting.

I selected a Glock 19 for a SD/HD.
 
@augustino you are correct. I'm in Florida and we had a shooting a few months back in the paper. 3 kids broke in to an elderly genglemans home. He shot one with his shotgun the other two ran but were later caught. They never brought chareges against him. Thank god our da is pretty open about the fact she won't pursue charges against a justified self defense shooting. The local sherrif agreed. We have a lot of crime in my neck of the woods and some peoples attitudes are changing about SD. It's funny how becoming a victim will do that.
:what:
Also most DA's aren't going to risk spending city or gov't money on a losing trial. If it looks justified they don't want to waste the resources to lose. Make sense?
 
Wow, lots of scaremongering going on here, i think.

It all depends on your state. Just because you are involved in a SD shooting, does NTO automatically mean you will be on the hook for $20k in lawyer's fees (that's an expensive lawyer), lose all your guns, your house, your dogs, and your beer supply. It could, depending on the state you live in, however.

In most castle doctrine states with civil immunity clauses, they won't arrest you or charge you with anything unless they have a significant belief you did something wrong. They might take you gun for the duration of the investigation, however (so don't count on getting it back right away). If you live in Philadelphia, you'll never see it again (unlawful confiscation of property - but the PPD don't care about the law).

Civil immunity means the perp or his/her family can't come back and sue you in civil court.

Bio cleanup and property damage may be covered by your homeowner's insurance... check to make sure.
 
Here in Daleyland (Illinois), they don't even like it if we DON'T fire our guns to stop a home invasion. That is all "part & parcel" with their attitudes denying us the right to carry a loaded gun in ANY fashion.
We can carry concealed IF the gun is where it can't be seen, secured in a snapped/zippered case with the ammo NOT in the pistol or even in the same container! Makes it almost as useful as "mammary glands on a male bovine" in a mugging type situation.
 
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