Home Defense: Shotgun or Rifle?

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Shotgun, 1 oz. slugs backed up with buck, hands down. To me, its about stopping power, epsecially in my house in the dark at 7' across a bedroom or down a hallway. I want to put crazed head down as quickly as possible, and nothing says "have a nice day" like a shottie....
 
Mossberg 500 for now

I've thought about a rifle but the moneys not there and I don't think in would be a huge improvement.

Someone mentioned the Chuck-Chuck noise that makes us all smile. If your were to let yourself into my home without permission you would not hear Chuck-chuck:evil: You would hear BOOOOM, and maybe as your mind tried to figure out what just happened,you would here CHUCK-CHUCK BOOM. Then in all likelyhood you would never here anything again.
 
Crooks W/ Bodyarmor

Up in my neck O' the Woods, this trend has yet to chatch on with the local meth-heads and wannabe-gangbanger who would be most likely to break into my place (not a real high-profile target). If I did get a visit by anyone professional enough to bring armor I would be in a bad way because the probably would have scouted the place, realized I was armed, and would try to sneak in and take me out rather than grab the TV and run.

On the off chance that I did meet a crook wearing armor, I would still go with a shotgun for the reasons listed before, but also this: At close range a 12 gauge transfers a lot of energy to the target. The first shot of '00' would ruin this guy's day even if it didn't penetrate his armor, and since I am not going to shoot him one and ask if he's OK, the second, third, and fourth will finish the job. I don't mean that they have to kill him, but that should put him on the gound enough to subdue until the police arrive.
 
Only considering defensive needs (and not the aftermath) I'd go with the AR.

Those who think they won't need to aim their shotty due to spread are plain wrong. At HD distances it doesn't have that much spread. Any long gun, incuding a rifle, will give you a longer sight radius than a handgun and thus a better chance to actually hit.

The .223 has plenty of "knock down" power at typical HD ranges. The .223 has a lot less recoil for faster follow up shots. The .223 holds a lot more rounds (not likely to be a factor, but you never know and we're talking home defense here. I have a lot more practice with rifles than shotguns with my defensive load since I only know one range that will let me practice with 00 buck. Finally, the .223 has less potential to overpenatrate than any other effective HD caliber (even less than most handgun rounds).

However, I live in MD. I have to consider the aftermath. A military styled AR will almost certainly result in charges (around here the DA would want to charge me for a SD shooting anyway, they're just looking for an excuse) and wouldn't look good in front of a jury. Even if not charged, I'd likely be sued by the BG or his/her survivors and a military style weapon wouldn't look good. So, I'd much rather have something that looks like "grandpa's" hunting shotgun, a wood stocked Mini-14 or a very PC looking lever rifle in .357mag or .44mag.

Additionally, regardless of where you live there is a good chance that the police will confiscate the gun you used to defend yourself. There is a slightly lower chance your other guns will be confiscated. The AR is a lot more money to have tied up in a gun that is not in your possession, and may or may not be getting decent treatment from the people holding it. Since the shotgun or pistol caliber lever rifle are also very capable home defense weapons, and also a lot cheaper, that is a consideration as well. Even the Mini-14 is still relatively inexpensive compared to an AR.
 
You do need to aim a shotgun -- sort of. But if it fits, and you've practiced or hunted with a shotgun a lot, you can shoulder and point it really quickly. Here's a hint: rifle sights make this SLOWER not faster.

The idea of a shotgun that fits is that you can shoulder it and you will be looking down the barrel. Point it by moving your upper body as a unit, and you can acquire and hit just about anything, even something moving, quickly. Note that upland bird shotguns have a bead, or maybe a rib and bead or two beads so you can confirm that you've shouldered it straight. They don't have ghost rings!

An AR with an EOTech points quickly, too. But the shotgun will put more good-sized projectiles on target, each with the energy of a lead .38 Special round.

A shotgun that points quickly costs $300 new, and requires no batteries or fine adjustments, and doesn't have anything protruding from it.
 
I agree about a shotgun being effective against body armor.

Some people have the impression that a bulletproof vest allows someone to shrug off a hit, Hollywood style. Someone catching a load of buckshot in the chest is going to at least have the wind painfully knocked out of them and a bad bruise, too. I'd figure they're going to lose their balance, and there's a decent possibility that at least a few pellets will hit their head or face, with a COM shot from the other end of a hall. And with a slug...well, compressing your chest to touch your spine where it hits tends to ruin any organs that get in the way. :D
 
Note that at least some American soldiers hit in their body armor with 7.62x39 rounds at close range in Iraq have been able to return fire and kill or disable the man who shot them.

Buckshot would be far more disorienting.

An AR was designed for a protracted firefight. Buckshot was designed to kill a deer quickly at close range.
 
all you guys using birdshot for HD are making a big mistake.

my primary HD weapons are shotguns.
The trusty old reliable 12ga. Rem. 870 with Winchester 00 low recoil buck.
and a Baikal 12ga. double barrel loaded with Remington low recoil slugs.
 
Shotgun, hands-down, as they say.

first, the AR is loud as hell ( a .222 from a ~24" barrel was loud enough...) secondly, i'd worry about overpenetration and such.

i'm thinking a 20 gauge 8+1 pump loaded with HP slugs:
1) you're INDOORS - is a 12 really necesary?
2) quieter
3) softer recoil

~tmm
 
Only reason to use a 12 is that I already have a 12 for other uses. There is low-recoil ammo that works.
 
good point, but a 20 is good for things as well... depends on how much $$ you want to spend, or what shotties you have at your disposal.
 
My next shottie will be a 20, but it won't be a pump.

The SxS upland bird gun I want will do in a pinch, but the 870 is a better HD gun IMO and I don't care if it gets scratched.:)
 
shotgun, for reasons aptly mentioned by armedbear & fabulousfink. anyone who can point a flaslight or water hose can use a shotgun at close range. just racking the action may cause perp to beat a hasty retreat. after all, point is to stop threat. If that fails, 00 buck will succeed in above.
 
My choice is a M4 with a 14.5" barrel. Quite handy in close quarters, 30rd mag capacity, plus the ability to reload a lot faster than a shotgun.
 
But then you feel that an ar15 would be less effective at shorter distances to accept the trade offs of the shotguns increased penetration in a more populated area?
Click to expand...

Never said an AR was less effective, just that for my ideas about self defense, i dont need to spend 750+ on an AR when my $150ish pump will do just the same. As for penetration, well I certainly hope I've trained enough that any shots fired in anger will be on target, as I wouldn't want 5.56 or 12g going somewhere i didnt intend.
 
My Mossberg 500 would be my choice between the two (AR or SG). Next would be a pistol cal carbine and if I needed more its 308 time. :)
 
I'd choose the AR hands down. Personal choice, but that's what I'd shoot better.

You do need to aim a shotgun -- sort of. But if it fits, and you've practiced or hunted with a shotgun a lot, you can shoulder and point it really quickly. Here's a hint: rifle sights make this SLOWER not faster.

The idea of a shotgun that fits is that you can shoulder it and you will be looking down the barrel. Point it by moving your upper body as a unit, and you can acquire and hit just about anything, even something moving, quickly. Note that upland bird shotguns have a bead, or maybe a rib and bead or two beads so you can confirm that you've shouldered it straight. They don't have ghost rings!
Click to expand...
You can do that with a rifle also. There's no rule that says you have to take a fine sight picture at 7 yards; the front sight post itself serves the same purpose as a bead or rib.

Note that at least some American soldiers hit in their body armor with 7.62x39 rounds at close range in Iraq have been able to return fire and kill or disable the man who shot them.

Buckshot would be far more disorienting.

An AR was designed for a protracted firefight. Buckshot was designed to kill a deer quickly at close range.
Click to expand...
First, our soldiers over there are wearing body armor that will stop a frontal hit from 7.62x54 or .30-06, not your typical civilian/LEO body armor. Anything that will stop 7.62x39 (NIJ Level III or IV hard armor, or similarly rated hard trauma plates) will stop buckshot easily with no trauma to the wearer.

The North Hollywood bank robbers were hit with lots of shotgun rounds (albiet at some range) and were also able to return fire, and they were only wearing soft Kevlar (II or IIIA), not Level III or IV.

There's no question that buckshot is way more effective on a round-for-round basis than .223 or 7.62x39, but for me the other advantages of the carbine and cartridge greatly outweigh the lethality edge of the shotgun. But what works well for me may not work well for you, and vice versa.

first, the AR is loud as hell ( a .222 from a ~24" barrel was loud enough...) secondly, i'd worry about overpenetration and such.

i'm thinking a 20 gauge 8+1 pump loaded with HP slugs:
1) you're INDOORS - is a 12 really necesary?
2) quieter
3) softer recoil
Click to expand...
.223 JHP will penetrate a heck of a lot less than even a 20-gauge HP slug.
 
For me its an AR15. I feel more comfortable with it. In the event that someone(God forbid) gets a hold of one of my family and has them in a hostage type hold, Im confident that I can put one of those 55gr. peices of hate right where it needs to go without collateral damage(wad). I like the shortness and handiness of my AR over the shottie also; and the electronic sight in the dark for me makes all the difference in the world. I guess its really all about what your comfartable with and train with that matters most.

I will say this about shotguns: Those of you who dont think you need to aim a shotgun are in for a rude awakening when the fecis hits the spinning blades. At in-house-distances shotguns dont "blanket" an area. Also, if someone is in your home with the intent to do you harm, not just burgularize you, racking the slide will give away your position and could draw fire.
 
I keep an 870 pump and a 5.56 rifle handy. I grab the shotgun when I hear a bump in the night.

-I'm more practiced with a shotgun than any weapon I own.
-Round count is a non-issue. With a mag extension my 870 holds 9 shells with 9 more riding on-board.
-I can change from 00Buck to Slugs in less than 4 seconds if need be.
-Shotgun won't make me go deaf.
-Body armor is almost a non-issue. A load of 00Buck in the chest will break ribs or knock the wind out of you at the very least. If you're not laying face down in your own blood then you get a follow up shot to the head.
-I think 8-9 rounds of .33cal all at once is more effective than .223 one at a time.
-Penetration isn't an issue for me because I live alone in a brick house in the country.

Those of you who dont think you need to aim a shotgun are in for a rude awakening when the fecis hits the spinning blades. At in-house-distances shotguns dont "blanket" an area. Also, if someone is in your home with the intent to do you harm, not just burgularize you, racking the slide will give away your position and could draw fire.
Click to expand...

Listen and learn kids!
 
A shotgun. I already have one and I can't afford an AR.

The absolute best gun is the one you have in your hand, no matter what kind it is. AR is theoretical for me and therefore it loses.
 
Shotgun. Close quarters. You want a rifle when you have room to miss a shot. With a shotgun, you can't, or at least shouldn't miss. Plus, you don't have too worry about overpenetration as much. Buckshot will make more and bigger holes in a person than a single .223 round.
 
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