Pistol or .308 Rifle or Shotgun for Home Defense?

[4Freedom]

I have been meeting variety of people saying differnt thigns. One guy says the only gun you should use for home defense is a 12 gauge shotgun sawed off to 18 inches. Anothe guys says shotguns are bulky and it would be more reasonable to use only a handgun for home defense. I spoke to another person who says he uses an AK47 for home defense. I asked him what if he kills innocent neigbhbors, he said he didn't care. Well, that is major concern for me.

I am getting a DPMS 5.56 sportical, which is light but doesn't pack quiet the punch of an AK, definately not as much as 12 gauge. I also am getting a LR-308, but it is more a sniper rifle. It lacks manueverability. Does anyone think that a lower priced CETME .308 would make a good home defense gun? Better than a shotgun? I mean isn't it better to have 30 or even 150 rounds in ur mag/drum versus just 5 shots u may miss from being too pumped up with adrenaline if SHTF. I cannot afford anymore DPMS LR-308 rifles and I was thinking of trying to find a good .308 semi-auto.

ANy suggestions for good all around .308 Semi -AUto? I have seen a Saiga and Cetme .308. What are people's opinions of these guns? Do thye have more acccuraacy than AK? I am sure they are not on par with an AR gun. I was thinking .308 rifle would pack a nice punch and have more accuracy than AK. I am not sure if a bulky and clunky 12 gauge is really a better option.

 

[qajaq59]

Which one can you hit something with, in the dark, and when you are half asleep? That should help you figure it out......

 

[Marine_wannabe]

Mossberg 500 or 590 Special Purpose shotgun.

 

[msgsummit]

Me personally, I think the 12 gauge is your best all round home defense weapon. When things go bump in the night, just the sound of racking a shell into the shotgun can be enough to make others rethink why they entered your home.

 

[wnycollector]

A decent quality 12ga pump loaded with low recoil 00 buck is about the perfect HD weapon.

 

[elktrout]

For almost all home defense situations, you have to be able to prove your life is endangered in order to use deadly force against your opponent(s). In most cases, this means there has to be an intrusion into your dwelling. Accordingly, you are shooting at very close range, likely in the dark (as noted above), and may have to "point" shoot without time to find your sights (assuming you have some kind of night sights on your weapon). My choice would be the short barreled shotgun with an extended magazine. Also, #4 buckshot is deadly up close and not nearly as penetrative as 00 buck, something else to consider if you are shooting and a loved one is on the other side of the wall behind the perp.

 

[Timradcliffe345]

I am getting a DPMS 5.56 sportical

What are you paying for the Sportical? If you want something reasonable priced and of higher quality/mil-spec (and more features) than the sportical, I am selling a NIB M&P15. PM me for more info if you are interested.

An AR15 is an EXCELLENT HD GUN. It offers lower or equal over-penetration compared to 00 Buck and hot 9 mm rds.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

First off, over penetration is not some boogy man. It is a matter of ammunition selection, not cartridge selection, at least within reason. Ammunition exists for all major rifle cartridges that could find themselves in the home defense role, which will drastically reduce the risk of over penetration and associated risk to family members and innocent 3rd parties. But the simple fact of the matter is that any ammunition suitable for self-defense--be it in a handgun, rifle, or shotgun--is going to penetrate several interior walls. A round used for self-defense has to achieve adequate penetration to be effective. Under penetration is much more of a safety risk to you and your family that over penetration.

A .308 rifle loaded with modern expanding projectiles, such as Hornady's 155 gr TAP, is going to be devastating against soft tissue. Testing in gelatin shows some of these rounds produce wound cavities and tissue displacement equal to about 3/4 of that produced by a standard 12 gauge 00 buckshot round. And the .308 will do it with less recoil while also providing greater accuracy and magazine capacity.

That said, the 5.56 can be loaded adequately for self-defense as well. Again, look to Hornady TAP and the heavier Sierra Matchking loads such as the 69 gr or, if your rifle will stabilize them, the 77 gr Mk 262 knockoffs.

The concern about the bulkiness of long guns is over rated as well, compared to their drastically improved terminal ballistics and the relative ease with which most people can hit with them under pressure as compared to handguns. A carbine or shotgun isn't going to stick out from the body much more than a handgun extended to where it is supposed to be. A good single point sling eliminates any concern of the weapon being taken from you. And a few simple techniques can further improve your weapon retention. It's almost a non-issue in my book. Again, esp considering the advantages of the rifle or shotgun, you'd be foolish to choose a handgun over either. A handgun exists solely to fight your way to a long gun.

When things go bump in the night, just the sound of racking a shell into the shotgun can be enough to make others rethink why they entered your home.

It might. In the meantime, it does eliminate any element of surprise you have by telling the intruder both your location and the fact that you are armed, thereby providing him with much more information about you than you possess about him. I am no rocket scientist, but I am pretty sure that if knowledge is power, you don't want to be empowering the enemy.

It looks just as asinine and retarded when you rack the slide for dramatic effect as it does when Steven Segal does it.

 

[Redneck with a 40]

A .308 rifle is going to be pretty unweildly in close quarters, short barrel shotty gets my vote. Besides, I wouldn't want to fire a .308 rifle indoors.

 

[jjohnson]

12 Gauge Shotgun

OMG, look, first time somebody came up with this one.

Fer cryin' out loud, the answer is 12 gauge shotgun. Easy to handle,
pretty deadly, and rounds that miss don't go through two houses next door before they come to a stop.

 

[madcratebuilder]

I asked him what if he kills innocent neighbors, he said he didn't care

That's the reason we are going to see more gun and ammo control laws. Not what I would call a responsible gun owner. A person with that attitude should not be allowed to own a gun.

I have a 870P with an 18" barrel, it is a bit bulky for in house use. I find a pistol much easier.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

The standard 18 inch barreled PTR-91 has a listed OAL of 40 inches. JLD lists the 16 inch barrel models with an OAL of around 38.75 inches. This is with the standard fixed stock. I list this because the OP expressed interest in a CETME, which is pretty close to the HK roller lock clones that are derived from it in terms of both operation and external dimensions.

This is going to compare favorably with any 18 inch barreled shotgun you find, esp when you consider aftermarket collapsible stocks available for either.

The average 7.62mm carbine is going to be about 2 pounds heavier than your typical pump action shotgun, but this shouldn't be a concern for an adult. If it is, then they have bigger problems than what to pick for home defense in the event of a break-in.

The only relevant concern against the .308 that holds any water at all is muzzle blast in close-quarters, and to that, I say, you have to be alive to be deaf. A .357 or a 5.56 isn't going to be any fun in a hallway either.

 

[DarkCharisma]

.308 or 7.62mm is going to be far too large, and overpenetrate. Contrary to popular belief, a hollowpoint .223/5.56mm will not, unless you're fighting a stick figure. 12ga. would be good too as long as it's not loaded with slugs.

I have both an AR in .223 and a Remington 870 in 12ga. sitting next to my bed. Bumps in the night are investigated with the 870.

Edit: I'm basing my 7.62mm overpenetration statment on a friends' observations as he serves in Afganistan. He says that quite often a shot with standard fmj ammunition passes straight through a human body, while his 5.56 rarely exits in any one large peice.

 

[jdc1244]

Which one can you hit something with, in the dark, and when you are half asleep?

That’s the question – for me it would be my Colt’s 1911. For others it would be a shotgun. I also live in a rural area where harming neighbors is not an issue. Each person’s situation is unique and the right HD firearm should be chosen to fit that situation and person’s ability.

 

[CZ223]

Whichever one you practice with the most.

I know that is a tired answer but in my opinion it is the best answer. All 3 weapons will do the job well in the right hands. I do think that the 308 is a little much (if you ever have to pull the trigger) but it certainly would be a great detterant to someone staring down the barrel. I always have my glock right next to the bed or on my hip. I currently have a Mossberg 590 in the closet and sometimes a 16" AR is right next to it. I feel comfortable with any of them. The shotgun would be my first choice, depending on circumstances though the Glock is a close second. I have my shotgun loaded with 00 buck right now but I will probably switch over to number 6 shot or number 4 buck shot at least for the first couple rounds. In the house either of these will leave a plenty big hole in the bad guy with less chance of over penetration.

 

[7Star]

Yeah, I'd imagine a real short barreled 12G with a couple 10 round magazines bound together would be ideal. However, I don't have one. I perfer a nice pistol. It is just more accessaible for me. I just picked up one of those biometric handprint lock boxes. Good enough for me. Besides, it's just my opinion, that any gun owner should have a pistol and some sort of shotgun.

 

[Pulse]

a short barrel, Pistol Caliber shoulder fired weapon is the best homedefense weapon in my opinion.
the only thing that comes close would be a Semi-Atuo shotgun.

i can not stress this enough, fire a high powered rifle indoors with no or inadequat hearing protection and you better make damn sure that who ever you just shot at is a goner with the first round and that he does not have a angry buddy around the Corner, because you will not be able to fire a second time, instead you will drop your rifle, hold your ears and probably even fall over.
even if you have Digital earmuffs that filter out loude noise, it is not going to be a nice experience to fire a 5.56mm rifle indoors, i dont even want to think about how a .308 would be.

 

[Frank4711]

Pick one and Practice...Practice....Practice

 

[Kentucky]

i can not stress this enough, fire a high powered rifle indoors with no or inadequat hearing protection and you better make damn sure that who ever you just shot at is a goner with the first round and that he does not have a angry buddy around the Corner, because you will not be able to fire a second time, instead you will drop your rifle, hold your ears and probably even fall over.
even if you have Digital earmuffs that filter out loude noise, it is not going to be a nice experience to fire a 5.56mm rifle indoors

For some reason this has been getting on my nerves lately. People making statements as fact when they have nothing to back them up. Maybe I just need to take a break from the internet for a while, I know it isnt a new thing.

Have you ever fired a 5.56 indoors? I have. I did not drop the rifle and scream like a girl. It was loud. I did not seem to me to be as loud as firing my AK-74 outdoors. And have you noticed how many swat and entry teams use AR's? Think they would keep doing it if it was making people deaf?

How about our military? How many firefights have they had inside building in Fallujah and other cities over there? Lots.

If you live the country, and dont have neighbors adjoining your building, then a rifle makes a FINE HD weapon. If I lived in an apartment building then I would consider a shotgun with birdshot, but I dont so I use my AR.

 

[ByAnyMeans]

I agree it depends upon your situation and experience with the gun you choose, and it can be more than one.

I personally have a pistol that if needed can be used to move through the house given it's strengths for this task for me. I also have a loaded 12 gauge with 20 in barrel and seven round magazine for barricading upstairs when appropriate.


My nearest neighbor is amount 75 yards from me, but if it was more I would use a rifle of some sort in 5.56 for barricading purposes.

 

[jarhead98]

Home defense

Quality, reliable pump shotgun 12 or 20 ga (better for women, kids) is hard to beat for home defense. Buckshot is great for close in, 25yds is about max before the pellets spread out too far. #4 for summer, 00 for winter- or standard 24/7. Slug is fine for 25-50 yard, 100 yards is pushing it with a ''riot'' type shotgun, better for manuvering corners, shooting behind cover, etc. Having buck/slug available is great, situation dictates. An extension tube, speedfeed stock, and sidesaddle will give you more shells on you as you shoot. In my AO I have gangs, plus packs of wild dogs/coyotes. More shells on the gun, grab in go, the better. Tritium rifle sights for the 870 are very, very nice for night-- when its needed the most, too. For pistols, 357 revolver or Glock are ideal. Bathrobe pocket, answer the door- handier and 'there' for a door kicked in, rush, etc. Or for going to work, get groceries, or walk out to feed the dogs... Its on you, and can fight your way to better.

Rifles- depending on where you live. 357 magnum lever gun, 9mm 'carbine' or AR, AK, 308 MBR are great, depending. Dont want to kill your family behind that drywall, or neighbors. I am hoping ''assault weapons'' are not banned again, I live on the Mexican frontier and its getting pretty bad. Cartel war in progress. They can also put food on the table. Whatever you have, stock up ammo. 200 rounds minimum- there will be no resupply if theres a widespread problem. Having lived through LA riots, two tours in the Gulf, and policework- plan ahead for worst scenario. Cops cant protect everyone, 24/7. Semper fi.

 

[High Planes Drifter]

The sword is not nearly as important as the knight. Buy something that you like, someting that "fits" you, then buy a bunch of ammo and practice, practice, practice. I like AR carbine's. They "fit" me -meaning that I can handle a carbine fast-, and I shoot them well.

The "one size fits all" idealogy here when it comes to home defense & firearms is long outdated.

 

[nathan]

Glock 19 and a Remington pump 12 G is all you need for home defense. Lots of ammo and practice time.

 

[Pulse]

Have you ever fired a 5.56 indoors?

yes i did.
it was on the Swiss Army Urban Combat Training grounds near walenstadt and the weapon i fired was a SIG550.
the house was built from reinforced concrete, not drywall.
the rifle was fired in a ~2x8x3meters wide/long/high about hallway without windows and the 3 doors where closed.
i fired a 3 shot burst at a target standing at the back of the hallway.
i did not have hearing protection my ears where ringing and felt dizzy.

would it have been diffrent if the house would have been built from cheap drywall and with a Adrenalin rush?
maybe, fact it that i would not have been able to give a follow up shot.

 

[DarkCharisma]

I've fired .308 and .223 without hearing protection, and while it was a little painful I don't think I'd cause me to drop my rifle and cry.