Pistol or .308 Rifle or Shotgun for Home Defense?

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An AR15 is an EXCELLENT HD GUN. It offers lower or equal over-penetration compared to 00 Buck
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The "Box-o-truth" tested that, 00 buck went through less drywall.

would it have been diffrent if the house would have been built from cheap drywall and with a Adrenalin rush?
maybe, fact it that i would not have been able to give a follow up shot.
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Have you fired 12 gauge indoors, and if so, was it better or worse?
Or if anyone fired both, please tell me.
 
The "Box-o-truth" tested that, 00 buck went through less drywall.
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Have they tested the lightweight JHP's? The only .223 tests I'd seen over there were FMJ.

Having said that, I would expect most buckshot to go through less drywall, except perhaps 000 (although at very close range, buckshot will act like a slug for the first couple of walls). .223 JHP's are generally considered to have less wall penetration than 9mm, .40, or .45 JHP but not most flavors of buckshot.

Shotguns with slugs, on the other hand, will out-penetrate most centerfire rifles in building materials.
 
It was my first time doing live fire room clearing drills, which explains the adrenaline for me. Any time you have live rounds going off in close proximity to you, and you are shooting in close proximity to others, with little room for error, the situation calls for a little shot of adrenaline, IMO.
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here is a video of the training grounds where we had that exercise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0WVahyzFsE

sadly you cant see the houses with the roofs, they are a bit further down, but they wont let us do training with live grenades in them, so we resorted to the open ones most of the time.
ofcourse, Adrenalin was there, but it get kind old when you did that 10 or 20 times allready .. and mistakes happen, like forgeting the muffs.

There's your difference, I suspect. Reinforced concrete is like a mirror for sound.
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i am just reporting what i experienced, maybe drywall makes that mutch of a differance.
i am sure as hell not going to test it. :p
 
Lots of opinions here.

Mine is -- something you can handle safely and shoot well, that you already own.
 
How does one prepare to fire a weapon indoors, without wrecking your hearing? The last thing I want to happen is to be stunned, and incapable of doing anything, when I'm being attacked. (And how bad will a 12 gauge or 7.62x39 damage hearing?)
 
Just how often do you intend to be firing in the confines of your house? It isn't going to "stun" you ... and any hearing loss is more than likely going to be temporary at best.

I'll take a little hearing loss over a lot of blood loss any day of the week.

JImbothefiveth said:
How does one prepare to fire a weapon indoors, without wrecking your hearing? The last thing I want to happen is to be stunned, and incapable of doing anything, when I'm being attacked. (And how bad will a 12 gauge or 7.62x39 damage hearing?)
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Home Defense is more of a software problem than a hardware problem, as are most issues regarding self defense.

So far no one has mentioned much at all in the way of software, as is so often the case. Please let me remedy that. For starters, take a look at http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/basictraining.asp . There you'll find links to the NRA's basic firearms classes and a link to the search tool which allows you to locate an instructor/class near you.

One of the classes offered is the Personal Protection In The Home Course.

According to the posted description, the class "teaches the basic knowledge, skills, and attitude essential to the safe and efficient use of a handgun for protection of self and family, and to provide information on the law-abiding individual’s right to self-defense. This is an eight-hour course. Students should expect to shoot approximately 100 rounds of ammunition. Students will learn basic defensive shooting skills, strategies for home safety and responding to a violent confrontation, firearms and the law, how to choose a handgun for self-defense, and continued opportunities for skill development. Students will receive the NRA Guide to the Basics of Personal Protection In The Home handbook, NRA Gun Safety Rules brochure, the Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification booklet, course completion certificate, and Lesson Plan (print 10-06).

The NRA Basic Personal Protection In The Home Course participants must be law abiding, adults (at least 21 years old), and experienced shooters (shooters able to show mastery of the basic skills of safe gun handling, shooting a group, zeroing the firearm, and cleaning the firearm) to maximize what can be learned from this course. Proof of shooting experience can be one of the following: NRA Basic Pistol Course Certificate, NRA FIRST Steps Course Certificate, NRA pistol competitive shooting qualification card, military DD 214 with pistol qualification, or passing the Pre-Course Assessment."

Software. Yeah, it's more fun to yammer on about hardware. But in the event you have unexpected and uninvited callers, the software you load into the computer between your ears is a lot more likely to save your bacon than whatever hardware you pick out at your favorite gun shoppe.

lpl
 
Me personally, I think the 12 gauge is your best all round home defense weapon
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Agreed


When things go bump in the night, just the sound of racking a shell into the shotgun can be enough to make others rethink why they entered your home.
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I wouldn't count on it.
 
All below based on in-home defense:

What is the furthest straight shot you can make in your house - 30 feet? Accuray and power of a long gun not necessarily needed

Pistol is the choice:
Long guns are harder to manuever in a house
Long guns are very easy to get taken away from you / pushed away by a bad guy
Long guns penetrate walls more and that is NOT what you want
Long gun requires a tac light unless you want to go in the dark - no hand for flashlight.
Problem with tac light is you HAVE to point the gun at something before you know what it is. While your hand shakes and you are trying to decide if you should put your finger on the trigger. But it turns out to be that off chance when its the teenager sneaking in at 3 am.
Pistol lets you have a light in a free hand - so that you don't have to point the gun. Some situations maybe you should point gun but if you aren't sure, you have the choice with a pistol and flashlight.
Use a tactical type light (handheld) with the pistol. Tactical type light is brighter.

If you plan is to hole up in safe area with some distance between you and the only entrance - and the line of fire past the door is SAFE - then a long gun can be ok - you are not having to manuever and at that point you will be shooting before they get close enough to grab the barrel

If a long gun - 12 GA automatic shotgun - 18.5" barrel - extension tube for the magazine - use 2 3/4" shells, not 3" because that lets you put 1 more in the tube and at house distances (remember, 30" (?) 2 3/4" has plenty of power - number 1 buckshot - best balance of stopping power and not over penetrating in walls - get a tac light mount and put a good light in it, because you will not have a free hand - unlike a pistol.

Everyone will say pump. Cops carry pumps cause they just might have to crawl in the dirt in a gunfight, bang up guns, dust gets in action from riding in car all the time, get dropped, butt stroke bad guys with them, use in rain (corrosion), drop shells in dirt due to ducking bullets overhead and it takes more to seat them, etc. Pump is a little more reliable in that condition.

Will you do any of that to your shotgun? No. Unless you are on a ranch. What will you do? Double shuck the gun and have one less round, or partially pump and get NO round, or just forget to pump, etc.

Keep it simple at a time when you will be scared / shaking / ducking and dodging. Use a semi-automatic.

You still get the nice loud sound when racking the semi-automatic action - go try one. But from that point on its just point and pull.

.308 rifle - bullet will very very likely make it thru badguy and all your walls and into neighbors, along with any good guys in the way - miss him and almost definitely to neighbhors - flash will fully blind you in dark - bang has a good chance of damaging your hearing

Look forward to hearing feedback on the semi-auto shotgun.

Stay safe.
 
2 adders:

Semi-automatic shotgun also easier than a pump for your wife or older teenagers to use if needed.

I would also consider the 20 gauge shotgun as opposed to the 12 gauge. Shooting within the house it will still have plenty of power. And again, it would be easier to handle for wife or older teenagers if needed.

Regards,
 
You can actually get 12 ga low noise low recoil shells that kick LESS than most 20 ga,made by Winchester.I'd go with the 12,just because there is such a WIDE variety of ammo made for it ,everything from the little Aguilla mini-shells to Dragon's Breath.
 
You know, you're right. Even if low recoil is a little less power, again at 30' it doesn't matter... and you'll have more pellets with 12 than 20....
 
Long guns are harder to manuever in a house
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Can be. Not that hard in my house, but granted, I don't have stairs or very tight corners.

Long guns are very easy to get taken away from you / pushed away by a bad guy
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I'm not convinced on this one if you are using a short-stocked carbine with a pistol grip and decent retention technique.

Long guns penetrate walls more and that is NOT what you want
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Probably true of 7.62x39mm and .308 JHP's, but definitely not the case with .223 carbines shooting JHP's.

Long gun requires a tac light unless you want to go in the dark - no hand for flashlight. Problem with tac light is you HAVE to point the gun at something before you know what it is.
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If you have a quality light, you can light up anything you need to from low ready or half-sul. You don't have to put an object in the intense central beam in order to see it at across-the-room distances. A Surefire G3 works well for me, but there are plenty of excellent lights out there.

If a long gun - 12 GA automatic shotgun - 18.5" barrel - extension tube for the magazine - use 2 3/4" shells, not 3" because that lets you put 1 more in the tube and at house distances (remember, 30" (?) 2 3/4" has plenty of power - number 1 buckshot - best balance of stopping power and not over penetrating in walls - get a tac light mount and put a good light in it, because you will not have a free hand - unlike a pistol.
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Good recommendations there, IMO.
 
Hi Benezra,

No resistance from me - I was spouting a bit, and stauncher than i should have in some statements ("very easy"). And I have zero experience with .223 JHP so I'm open to learn.

You know, not a critique, but something I have found. I have a remington 870 pump (wish i had bought a semi-automatic but this was before i felt that way). Now, it was a tac version with pistol grip as part of normal (shoulder style) buttstock. For me personally - I feel more comfortable with a standard butt-stock (no pistol grip). Also on AR 15's I've handled in stores. The thing is when i grab quickly and also manuever around my body, the standard buttstock feels better. Of course, practice might help, and it would help retention....

Point about tac lights having good side illumination also is well taken. I've really just started to look at them. And I keep preaching 30' or less / across the room, which means it doesn't require the direct 2 million candlepower of a q-beam to do the job.

Also i had seen .308 as one option in the title of the thread and had that in mind with the long gun.

Regards,
 
Lots of good ideas here,but lots of variables,too.Is it a remote ranch house,or urban apartment?Are we concerened with a pack of feral dogs,or a burglar?Different situations might have different requirements.
 
One suggestion that I received from a family friend (former commander of the Los Angeles Police Academy) was a lever action in 30/30 (although I am certain a comparable lever/slide action in357/41/44mag/45Colt would work equally well in across the room distance--looking around the longest shot in the house would be less than 15 yards). Where I live in L A county, a prosecutor or the BG's attorney suing for damages would have a more difficult time getting leverage with a traditional "hunting" carbine (especially in a stout handgun cartridge) that looks like it came out of Bonanza/Rifleman/Gunsmoke or a shotgun/handgun comparable to what local LEOs carry/used to carry (a Beretta/S&W/Glock/Ruger in 9/40/45 or a Smith/Ruger 3 to 6 inch revolver in357 should be easy for your attorney to defend in court especially compared to an "Evil Black Rifle"/AK). I know the thought process is oriented to where I live in SoCal, but if you end up in court with in a community with antigun politicians, it helps if you can combine good stopping power (and good hollow point ammo in the 357/44/45Colt category has earned a good reputation for being good stoppers, as does 30/30 (since it will drop a deer at 150 yards with decent placement, the same round should do yeoman service at 15 feet)) with a relatively innocous "look"--and a lever action wood stock carbine or a "traditional" wood stock shotgun look like {and are} traditional hunting guns so gun ignorant juries are less likely to be scared by those guns than what a prosecutor or ambulance chaser would paint as an "evil military rifle"
 
Say,that's a very good point!I've got a Winchester 16'' barreled carbine in .45 Colt,a Rossi .357 and a 'Hartford' [fancy Rossi] .45 levergun to choose from too.
 
Announcer Voice:

"Tune in next week on The Best Defense, when Rob Pincus and Phil Strader will show you what you can expect from typical defensive firearms when you fire them into interior home walls....."


;)


Seriously, we shoot typical pistol, rifle and shotgun rounds through sheetrock wall sections.

-RJP
 
I love my old wood stocked Mossberg 500 with the 18.5 inch barrel. Doesn't look "evil" and I think I'd stand a better chance in court of claiming "fear for my life, so I grabbed my old hunting shotgun" instead of using some uber tactical black rifle or something.
 
Depends upon YOUR home. Don't let somebody else who hasn't seen, much less been IN your home tell you what's right for you.

I live in a cramped apartment with narrow hallways. A long gun of any kind is nearly useless to me. I rely exclusively on handguns.

If I lived in a house, a shotgun might be useful.

If I lived in a farmhouse surrounded by large open spaces from which an assailant or assailants might operate, a rifle of some sort could be appropriate.

I in fact, own all three. Only one is of much use to me NOW.

A lot of people who don't know you or your home know what's right for YOU. Don't let them BS you.
 
No resistance from me - I was spouting a bit, and stauncher than i should have in some statements ("very easy"). And I have zero experience with .223 JHP so I'm open to learn.

...

Also i had seen .308 as one option in the title of the thread and had that in mind with the long gun.
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No problem at all! And you are entirely right about .308, I think. Light- to medium-weight .223 JHP is fairly easily stopped because it is both light and fragile. However, you can make a .308 bullet fragile, but you can't make it very light; you're still looking at twice the bullet mass of a 55-grain .223 even with the lightest .308 loads.

If you live in a masonry house, .308 or 7.62x39mm JHP is undoubtedly fine, but they definitely penetrate more than .223.

You know, not a critique, but something I have found. I have a remington 870 pump (wish i had bought a semi-automatic but this was before i felt that way). Now, it was a tac version with pistol grip as part of normal (shoulder style) buttstock. For me personally - I feel more comfortable with a standard butt-stock (no pistol grip). Also on AR 15's I've handled in stores. The thing is when i grab quickly and also manuever around my body, the standard buttstock feels better. Of course, practice might help, and it would help retention....
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It may be a you're-best-with-what-you-shoot-most thing, for both of us. I prefer the pistol grip because it makes sul and what I'd call half-sul easier (I'm sure it has an official name, but I don't know it), and also because you can short-stock the gun in a pinch (bad for retention, though). For AR's, I do much prefer the adjustable-length stock, which you can shorten down for moving in tighter spaces. My AK is also pretty handy due to its fairly short LOP and OAL.

Point about tac lights having good side illumination also is well taken. I've really just started to look at them. And I keep preaching 30' or less / across the room, which means it doesn't require the direct 2 million candlepower of a q-beam to do the job.
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I recently picked up a Surefire G3 LED for the carbine, and it's a nice unit. About as bright as I'd want in an inside-the-house light, with lots of off-axis illumination, and it gives you hours of full-brightness illumination on 3 123A lithium cells instead of the sub-hour you'd get with an incandescent bulb.
 
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