Home Defense: Shotgun or Rifle?

[GoBrush]

Depends??????

If you have no one in the house that sleeps in a separate room from you and you hear the bump in the night you could grab a shotgun and take a defensive stand in the bed room.

If you have others in the house in a different bed room especially kids then a good home defense handgun is your best bet. You can move quickly to rescue them. I feel that a handgun is better than a rifle because a rifle is longer and could be knocked away easier. Also if you have experience doing building searches you know that it is easier to see a long barrel as you round corners and while going into rooms better to keep your position secret as long as possible to give you as much advantage as possible. In this senerio better to leave the shotgun with your wife or girl friend so they can defend the bed room as you make your sweep through the house.

The only situation I feel a rifle might be the choice would be if you have a huge home with very large rooms or long hall ways that you would not feel comfortable with the ranges for a handgun.

 

[_N4Z_]

I feel that a handgun is better than a rifle because a rifle is longer and could be knocked away easier.

Couple words to that.


Bayonet (sharp) - the anti knock away accessory


Butt stroke - can't do it with a handgun, but there is the pistol whip!

 

[stoky]

Shotgun
Because it makes nice big holes and if someone was in need of a butt stroke it would be much better than the plastic AR's.

 

[_N4Z_]

*

well i was thinking the hardwood ass of the ak, but having carried and used ar's for my share of years, you don't want to get butt struck by it either.

there was a guy who got out of line in front of an officers club way back in 86 over in germany who can vouch for this.

 

[danurve]

Shotgun - already have rounds stashed in convieniet places.

 

[gabarber1]

I'm still kinda new to this, but I would have to agree with several of the posts that say a handun is the way to go. I would think that the .40 cal I've got would stop someone dead (no pun intended) in their tracks. I'm still working on the wife though- she doesn't like the thought of guns in the house with two small kids, therefore, they are all locked up. with double locks on the cases, we'd all be dead long before I got any one of the threee open. like I said I am working on her. BTW, does any one know of a good website I can get gun safety stuff for young kids from? My son is almost five- he is very interested in guns, but I want to make sure he gets as much safety training as possible- his mother is a school teacher, not a range teacher, so she's not any help!

 

[AStone]

Not so long ago, I posted a picture of a cardboard box shot at 15 feet with #8 shot. I would heartily recommend repeating the experiment with #6 shot before choosing it as a defensive load.

Hey, Vern.

Please don't take this as disagreement. It's not. I've learned a lot from reading your posts. (Thanks.)

But in this case, I'm missing your point there.

Can you please clarify?

It seems that you're saying #8 is better than #6. Right?

Maybe if you could link us to that thread on the cardboard box test...and offer a few more words about this...I'm all ears.

Thanks,

Nem

 

[V4Vendetta]

The first part of this post is to all who think a bayonet on a rifle is a good idea.

Prosecutor: "Ladies & gentleman of the jury. In the course of this trial I will prove that Mr. Jones murdered Jamal Smith. A poor youth who's life was tragicly cut short by Mr. Jones's cold bloodedness. We will never know what Jamal could have acomplished with his life. He could have became a doctor or congressman. But because of Mr. Jones's eagerness to kill, we shall be left forever in the dark. Mr. Jones had in his possession a AK-47 assault rifle with a bayonet attached. Surely you don't think that a innocent, lawful person would own a weapon such as that?"

I use a SAR1 without bayonet for HD. I suppose in the event I have to use it, a bayonet would just work for the prosecution.

 

[Jeff White]

Ahh another self defense myth is perpetuated on the internet

V4Vendetta,
Please post a citation to a case where a person who was involved in a legal self defense incident was prosecuted simply because the person used a non-PC weapon to defend himself.

If the shooting or in this case, the bayoneting was legally justified, the tool used is immaterial.

Jeff

 

['Card]

Shotgun.

Double-barrel 12-gauge with double-ought buckshot in both barrels, and one of those elastic shell-holders on the buttstock.

Kept securely, but kept loaded and handy to where I sleep.

 

[V4Vendetta]

"Please post a citation to a case where a person who was involved in a legal self defense incident was prosecuted simply because the person used a non-PC weapon to defend himself."


I'd still rather not be the first.

 

[Jeff White]

V4Vendetta,
You can defend yourself with anything you choose and you can make that choice for any reason you like, including an unfounded fear that you will somehow be culpable even if your actions don't make you culpable just because you used (choose one) an evil black rifle, hollow point ammunition, a legal NFA weapon, a mounted bayonet, handloaded ammunition....

I don't know where these self defense urban legends get started. But they are in fact, urban legends. Act in accordance with the law where you are at, and the tool you use to defend yourself with is immaterial.

Jeff

 

[clange]

I have both. I have AKs in 7.62x39, 5.45x39, 5.56, as well as a saiga-12.

The saiga-12 simply does more damage in a shorter amount of time. A loaded 9 rounds of 00 buck, leaving the end of the barrel as fast as I can pull the trigger, is pretty damned impressive. A couple good shots from the 5.45 or 5.56 may take someone down, but a couple trigger pulls from the s-12 is more likely to get it done quickly. When the mag goes dry I might go for the 30 rounds in the rifle, but as it is, I'd grab the 12 first.

If I had to move all around the house and it was dark (pretty unlikely), I'd have to use a handgun and my surefire. No light on any of the long arms.

 

[V4Vendetta]

"Act in accordance with the law where you are at, and the tool you use to defend yourself with is immaterial."


That may be the legal standpoint but it is NOT reality. I'm all for people using what they have even if the best they have is a pocket knife. A shyster lawyer without morals is going to try to make you look bad. That's his job. If he doesn't do it well enough so the jury buys it, he doesn't get paid.

P.S. I'm not talking about criminal court, I'm talking about the civil suit that will probably follow.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

You can defend yourself with anything you choose and you can make that choice for any reason you like, including an unfounded fear that you will somehow be culpable even if your actions don't make you culpable just because you used (choose one) an evil black rifle, hollow point ammunition, a legal NFA weapon, a mounted bayonet, handloaded ammunition....

I don't know where these self defense urban legends get started. But they are in fact, urban legends. Act in accordance with the law where you are at, and the tool you use to defend yourself with is immaterial.

That's true. A prosecutor would never charge someone for political or ideological reasons. And if he did, and the person was acquitted, he would gladly pay that person's legal expenses out of his own pocket.

Similarly, a lawyer would never try to use irrelevant things like "deadly hollow-point cop-killer bullets" in trying to sway a jury in a lawsuit.

 

[Jeff White]

If it's reality and not an urban legend, why has no one ever been able to cite a case where it happened?

Jeff

 

[Vern Humphrey]

If you follow these threads, you will see many reports of improper charges and lawsuits. For example, the first person to use a firearm defensively after Texas passed their "shall-issue" law was charged and the Dallas Prosecutor trumpeted this as proof all the evils he had predicted had come to pass.

The Grand Jury no-billed the guy.

 

[Jeff White]

Vern,
The issue here is of someone being charged because of their choice of defensive weapon. I am quite aware of the politics involved in criminal prosecution.

I still challenge you or any other member who believes that if all other things are legal, you will be charged with a crime because you (choose one) loaded your weapon with hollowpoint ammunition, used your AR15 or FN FAL to defend yourself instead of a single shot shotgun, had handloads instead of factory ammunition in your weapon, used an NFA weapon.

The tool that you use to defend yourself is immaterial if that defense is otherwise legal. You all say that it is a factor, all I'm saying is prove it. Sometimes we repeat these same urban legends so often that we beging to believe them ourselves. Given the anti-un/self defense leanings of many politicians, it's easy to believe that these issues could get you charged. But it's not so.

Jeff

 

[Poohgyrr]

Kid safety

gabarber1,

I'd start with NRA's Eddie Eagle program.

http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/

 

[_N4Z_]

+1

+1 to the Saiga12.

Shotty in a AK configuration, no pumping required in a fairly compact package and very reliable. What more could you ask for? Wish I had one . Bet it's much fun.

Would rank tops on my list for hd.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I think politics, public relations and ideology play a far greater role in our criminal justice system than we'd like to admit.

Look at Richard Jewel, who spotted the Olympic Park bomb and gave warning. The feds decided he was guilty and launched a major press campaign against him -- dragged him through the mud and all but stirred up a lynch mob to hang him.

Civil cases are often decided on emotion. Look at the Dalkon Shield case -- the company was bankrupted and American women who couldn't tolerate the pill were deprived of a safe alternative for a generation -- and even the Center for Disease Control admits that the statistics show the Dalkon Shield did no harm to anyone.

Look at the cases against Remington -- a man points a loaded rifle at his father, releases the safety and shoots him. And it's Remington's fault?

 

[Jeff White]

Vern,
The criminal justice system is run by men, so you are correct that politics, public relations and ideology all play a role. However, Richard Jewel did not shoot an intruder in his home with an un-PC weapon. None of those cases you cite are self defense cases. Even in a place like New Jersey, where hollow point ammunition is banned, shooting an intruder with hollow point ammuniton in and of itself will not get you charged with murder if the circumstances of the case don't meet New Jersey's legal definition of murder.

If you have an anti gun prosecutor you might be charged with possession of hollow point ammunition, but you won't be charged with murder. Noting in the law says that you don't have the right to defend yourself with whatever tool is available to you.

This thread is about selecting a long gun for home defense. I don't think that someone should limit themselves to a less effective tool, if that tool is legal, just because you think that the tool used has some bearing on the elements of a crime. It doesn't.

A shooting that meets the legal criteria for self defense is just that, a legal self defense shooting. It doesn't matter if the states attorney or DA is Sarah Brady's love child. He/she can't make up laws out of whole cloth.

As for the civil side of things, here in Illinois we are protected from civil suit by law if a self defense action is legal.

Jeff

 

[bratch]

You should read your states statues on HD. In OK and CO if the shoot is a ruled clean in the criminal side you are safe from the civil side.

 

[AStone]

This thread is about selecting a long gun for home defense.

So maybe we should get back to discussing that issue, and leave this other one for L&P.



Nem

 

[crashm1]

I have too many choices

I'd grab my SA 1911 loaded with 200gn JHPs from Hornady to get to one of the shotguns or the Marlin in .35 rem or the Remington 742 in .308 or my Mini-14. I've practiced with all of them from contact range out to 100 yards. (Of course our house is so small I'd probably walk into the guy getting to one of the long guns and then it would all be moot.)
I also think I would want a suppressor or ear muffs if I was going to shoot any of them indoors, I have enough hearing damage from the Army and being a mechanic.