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Home Defense Shotguns....Let's See them

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by .357MagTaurus, Apr 29, 2009.

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  1. Bonsai Doug

    Bonsai Doug Member

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    Man... do I feel under-armed after seeing what you guys have...

    Plain ol' vanilla Remington 870 Magnum Express, loaded with 00 buck:

    870_2003_01.jpg
     
  2. AcceptableUserName

    AcceptableUserName member

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    your "plain old vanilla" gun is nice and quite functional!
     
  3. sm

    sm member

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    I have been there and done that.

    No commando here, instead trying to let some new folks know, the "racking of a shotgun" so often posted here, is not a good , sound tactic, for chasing evil away.

    You would know this, as I am sure you know the sound of incoming differs from outgoing live fire too.


    Yeah, I am fed up with armchairs and immature posters. Folks wonder why so many no longer post here that used to, it is because these immature folks post the BS they do from Paintball , Movies and Video games.

    Me?
    I will not be at your gunfight. None of you were around when matters were serious for me and mine.

    My problem is, I really do care about folks being safe.
    I do a lot behind the monitor, and I can do a lot more behind the monitor and less in public as others do.


    Shotgun forum alone, has run off a helluva lot of folks, that were passing forward quality information.
    These immature folks that don't know come here from sic 'em, that don't get "it" and obviously don't want 'it", have caused instructors and trainers to leave.

    Maybe if quality folks shut up, and leave, and let the kiddies have it, then when the kiddies wake up dead, the gene pool will stop and once again shotgun forum will be quality again.


    Yeah...

    You folks win.


    Make a note- I will never again post in Shotguns, as I don't in Legal, or Activism.

    Not interested in using THR PMs for assisting folks anymore either.

    Folks that I want to find me, know where to find me.


    This forum needs a flamethrower taken to it to kill off the weeds and allow good seeds to come up later on.
     
  4. Hungry Seagull

    Hungry Seagull member

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    BonsaiDoug, sometimes simple is best.

    We once overcomplicated our stuff as it were and range drills proved it all costly in time lost. Take the reflex sight on my 870, one switch will turn a laser on either position. If the batteries quit, I can still aim through the lens at the bead on the end of the barrel and make adjustment to hit target.

    Dont worry, that gun and double aught buck will do ya nicely.

    See, the very last thing a BG invading your home has to or want to deal with is a homeowner armed and ready to defend.


    ///

    SM, you will be missed.
     
  5. steveracer

    steveracer Member

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    Acceptableusername, You've gone and done it. You've made me angry with you.
    You seem like a nice guy, so here's some free advise: People like sm have shared more than a little wisdom here, and some of us have actually learned from it. Go back to the beginning of his forum, and read his posts. Then go to the internet wayback machine, and read the olt TFL posts. He's one of the good guys, and he'll be missed.
     
  6. Pun1sher

    Pun1sher Member

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  7. plumberroy

    plumberroy Member

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    Steve :
    Please don't let a few think-they-know-it all Jackasses ruin it for the majority of the youngin' that can learn from your knowledge

    Dad all ways told me it is better to remain quiet and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. It is obvious some here haven't that lesson
    Most here love to read your posts Don't let 2 or 3 bad-ass-want-to-be ruin it for the rest
    Roy
     
  8. MR.LOKI

    MR.LOKI Member

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    Is this a shotgun thread or whiny drama queen thread ?
     
  9. RandKL

    RandKL member

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    Good guys float airbiscuits just like bad guys do, Steve. The *really* good guys, hell, let's capitalize that, Good Guys, know when they're wrong.

    Anyone that says a sound isn't capable of scaring someone has never had a firearm aimed at them. That anyone can argue all the wordage he wants and that simple fact won't change.

    richard
     
  10. Kayback

    Kayback Member

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    Again with the "using sound to scare badguys away" arguments.

    Honestly.

    It can scare someone, and it might even have the effect of making them turn tail. However this all relies on the badguy knowing what it is, and associating it with imminent 12 guage death.

    It might also make the bad guy open up on the corner the sound came from. Fight or flight works both ways.

    I can say I've never had a shotgun pointed at me and racked, so I don't know if the effects are as bowel loosening as people say, but I've looked into the muzzle of a couple of shotguns and it isn't nice. I was taught to go into danger with a weapon that is already charged. Getting to where the badguy is, THEN charging your weapon does NOT sound like a valid tactic.

    The badguy gets all the warning he needs that I'm armed with a verbal challenge, but by the time that happens all I need to do is squeeze the trigger, not work the pump.

    Pumping a shotgun sounds good, and looks mean, but does not have the effect aiming a rock steady 12 guage hole at their face does.

    KBK
     
  11. Hungry Seagull

    Hungry Seagull member

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    Pictures? Great.

    Just pictures and a little bit about the pictures please.

    Leave the emotions and thoughts about all the rest off please. Nothing worse than a bunch of birds fighting over a pile of food in the feeder because of the noise involved.
     
  12. 76shuvlinoff

    76shuvlinoff Member

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    sm
    I don't post much in the shotguns forum but I have always enjoyed reading your viewpoints. I usually agree with you, and I do this time as well. Everything has a season, never say never.
     
  13. Carl

    Carl Member

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    I use my M97 Trench gun. It works out well because if it jams or runs out of ammo I can always do a bayonet charge. :neener:
     
  14. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    I suppose I could load up my Hakim (8x57 semi auto battle rifle). It's about 10 feet long, so I don't even have to "charge" to use the bayonet, just stab the guy in the door of my bedroom. Don't even have to get out of bed. :D
     
  15. geologist

    geologist Member

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    Here's what we keep in our closets.

    IMG_5500e.jpg
     
  16. GojuBrian

    GojuBrian Member

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    shotgun.gif

    Mossberg 500 18" :)
     
  17. inSight-NEO

    inSight-NEO Member

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    As frustrated as you are, understandably so, consider this. Those who are involved in education, if I may use the comparison, probably have feelings such as yours on a daily basis. After all, there are many, many "students" out there who are just too immature, too stubborn and full of way too much attitude to appreciate what is trying to be "given" to them in the form of (hopefully) quality information and education. This, in turn, would certainly cause frustration in regards to the educator and his/her willingness to even bother with such people.

    However, many "students" exist who ARE willing to learn, willing to challenge (with respect) and willing to practice humility regarding their attitudes. Im betting its these students who keep the teachers coming back vs. simply quitting as a result of the frustration caused by those other less interested, less mature individuals.

    What would the alternative be? Well...I guess any "student," whether mature and willing to learn or not, would have to eventually teach themselves. What kind of world would that be?

    Take care sir.
     
  18. jlv08

    jlv08 Member

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    All this due to the tacticool mentality that is the rage on alot of threads,not only on this site but others, too.:scrutiny:

    It seems inane that a topic should wind up in a pi$$ing contest about a subject that ,although very serious, should be discussed in a mature manner.

    I remember when I asked my dad for my first .22.

    I was a little bit young at the time.

    He answered me by telling me I would get one when I was a litltle bit more grown.

    I didn't realize that the word "grown" would have such far reaching implications.:)
     
  19. Pun1sher

    Pun1sher Member

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    First of all, i'm tired of people ragging on "tacticool" stuff. If you don't like it, leave it alone, people can do what they want with their own guns. A lot of it is actually functional.
    Second, sm seemed like a good guy, and knowledgeable, I hope he changes his mind and decides to post again... there are people, like myself, who are open to learning new things.
     
  20. RandKL

    RandKL member

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    Sounds good, Kay....problem is it's hard to accomplish at night. I'll say it once more, you seem to only be arguing ONE thing and that's daytime assaults against gangs of armed marauders who have perfect vision of each other. It's NOT the average US home defense situation.

    In the US, chances are, it's going to be one or two burglars in the middle of the night who run the second they get found out. In the US, gunshots don't tend to start extended shootouts in your livingroom that everyone within hearing comes to take part in. Gunshots mean the cops are on the way and the bad guys know that.

    This crap about how "standing in the middle of the room full of thugs and racking your shotgun" is the same old strawman argument rehashed. No one has EVER argued that as the preferred tactic. The only folks who ever raise it are the ones arguing against the entire thing. You, for example. Your sentence:
    Funny, when I rack the slide in the BEDROOM or the HALL or the LIVINGROOM, folks in the nearby rooms hear it perfectly well. *That's* the argument without the strawman.

    rich
     
  21. Hungry Seagull

    Hungry Seagull member

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    All it does it takes yelling or challenge/commands. The volume will be loud enough to drown the assoicated sounds of getting to battle. If the wife was to hear that while in her room she has her own drill to go through and vice versa.

    One way or the other it's going to be over very, VERY quickly.
     
  22. inSight-NEO

    inSight-NEO Member

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    My final word on the "racking thing" is: How one keeps his/her firearm "at the ready" will dictate whether or not any "racking" of the pump or semi-auto slide is necessary. Some keep their weapons cocked and locked, others (such as myself) do not prefer this method. Hence, the "racking" of anything would, of course, be of necessity. How this would or would not affect the BG's mentality is entirely subjective and frankly, to me, a non-issue. Point is, I would be armed and hopefully prepared. After that, its all up to whats going on "between the ears" coupled with a generous proportion of luck and/or fate....as the situation dictates.

    Frankly, Im much more concerned about hearing only a "click" rather than a "bang" should I ever (God forbid) need to actually fire vs. concerning myself about whether or not someone is going to hear me "preparing" my firearm.

    In terms of the "tactical" thing: To me, "tactical" has to do with preemptive thinking/advantage and the implementation of such. Accessories, in and of themselves, do not necessarily make a weapon "tactical." Rather it is the individual weilding the weapon that does this. However, there is nothing wrong with lights, sidesaddles, etc., when they are weilded/used in support of acquiring and maintaining "tactical" advantage. Both LE and the military use such accessories for a reason. I doubt they use such items for show, bragging rights or for spending hours posing in front of a mirror.

    Now, are these accessories absolutely necessary? Probably not. Just because something is able to be attached to a shotgun (or any weapon) does not necessarily mean it belongs there. Are they absolutely without necessity? Not at all. Some accessories absolutely do provide a useful and practical means of extending a weapons capabilities.

    Those who choose to outfit their weapons in a "tactically" minded manner have that right. Those who choose not to also have that right. Please...lets give this stuff a rest already.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2009
  23. lipadj46

    lipadj46 Member

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    Here is mine, I keep the fancy stuff in the safe:

    Savagefull.jpg
     
  24. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    You know, insight, this is a bit off-topic. This has been my first semester as a full-time history teacher in a very tough local high school*. And I've given up. The vast majority of my students, quite frankly, don't deserve me. For every student that's willing to try to behave and put in a very modest amount of effort, I have 12 that just don't care, and 3 that are outright waste-of-breath bastards. I won't be back at this school in the fall. It's just not worth it.

    Far as those M4-style stocks go: I handled my first 870 so-equipped on Friday evening. It seems mounting them on an 870 gives a longer LOP, even at shortest position, than an M4. Fully collapsed, it was my LOP!


    John

    *I was in the wireless industry until 9-11, and then joined the Army, so I got into education late.
     
  25. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm planning on commissioning as a reserve officer, and going for my Ph.D. I'm not really giving up on teaching- I'm giving up on teaching at an artificially constrained level, for poor pay, to 80% repeat students. But thanks for the encouragement. :D

    Back to the topic: it's legal to hunt hogs in Georgia at night, and I've tried (learned a lesson about good flashlight and batteries, too! :rolleyes: ). It doesn't take long to figure out it's hard to move and hold a light securely along the bore of a shotgun!

    The "slide racking" thing is problematic. Sure, it can and perhaps may scare away a threat. Hell, many years...um, about 13, I guess- ago, I was walking with my first wife in a campground. We worked third shift, and it was about two in the morning, or a little later. We weren't loud, but I guess we were loud enough. We heard the sound of an SKS bolt slamming shut in a nearby tent.

    We decided it was time to go back to our camper. :D

    The problem is, the few who definitely will not be frightened away by that sound, are the ones against whom every advantage is needed. I don't like giving away my position, and I don't like giving away that I'm armed. Hell, if I can't help it, I don't want a home invader knowing I'm awake.

    Georgia has a castle doctrine. If someone who does not live in the house enters by force, he can be shot. Period. Not only that, but if anyone is injured by a defender during the commission of a felony, the defender cannot be sued.

    This certainly makes things easier for Georgians, but every state allows defense to protect life if the defender cannot retreat.

    Now, Steve has been accused of being an internet tough guy. I like Steve, but I do understand how his verbiage could be taken that way. The thing is, the folks who believe the resounding clash of their pump "shotties" ( :barf: ) will magically banish evil are the folk I consider internet tough guys. Relying on "intimidation factor" just seems amazingly short-sighted (that's code for "dumb as rocks"). It's like relying on pain compliance techniques to stop a threat. It may work.

    *May*. Ultimately, there are only three ways to reliably stop a machine. These are

    Structural failure ("stuff be broken");
    Hydraulic failure ("stuff be punctured");
    Electrical failure ("no go-juice").

    This is true whether you are trying to stop a threat with bare hands or an Apache attack helicopter.

    I understand cruiser ready carry. If I don't have a weapon on-body, I have often kept it cruiser ready. Ostentatiously charging the weapon has not and will never be a part of my defense strategy, though. In the case of a home invasion threat, if I had a slide-action, I might actually wait to charge it until I was about to fire.

    As a home defender, I have no obligation to use verbal challenge. There is some small possibility I may use it, but only if the invader can be clearly seen to have nothing in his hands. If I feel threatened, I will engage. If he tries to run, I'll let him go, unless he's covered with the blood of my family. In that case, he appears to have committed a felony and still be a public danger, and he won't escape if I can help it.

    Wow, this is a long post. I should go to bed.

    John
     
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