Home Invasion

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I don't understand how a society that used to have such large balls and was the beacon of Western civilization has allowed to degrade itself to the point where it prefers to criminalize victims. I'm glad that you got out.
 
So am I.

What's even scarier is that Britain is now lobbying the other EU member countries to copy their firearms laws. They recently asked France to tighten controls on black powder revolvers because they are worried people will smuggle them into the UK, and now they are lobbying Germany to make their citizens register replica* firearms for the same reason.

*replica as in fake guns like starting pistols and airsoft guns
 
I've read repeated charges that British police INTENTIONALLY hang back in order to avoid confronting dangerous offenders themselves. I've heard this far too many times for it to be completely untrue.

It should always be remembered that the unofficial motto of the police in places like the UK, NYC and Chicago is, "We don't have to protect you and we won't let you protect yourself."
 
I definitely would have said not to lean against the door, until I read that you didn't actually have a working firearm.

At that point I agree, I would have done everything to keep them from gaining entrance, including leaning on the door. Granted, furniture would be better, but you were attempting to act in a timely manner I imagine.
 
This is going to sound perhaps a little cold blooded, but I've looked at English self-defense law, and it appears to be extremely arbitrary. Basically, the way I read it is you can't prepare in any way to defend yourself. And if you do defend yourself, you are expected to respond with a less than lethal response regardless of the threat to yourself. (if it is lethal to your attacker, it becomes 10 times more likely they will charge you with the UK equivalent to manslaughter or even murder).

You did the best thing you could.... move to a country that acknowledges you have a right not to be killed, wounded, beaten, etc. by a violent attacker. I don't think you had a good answer to your situation.

Your only option IF they got in was to pistol whip them into submission.... and that would probably result in your incarceration.... but that's better than being shanked to death by crackheads.

Ultimately, stopping them the way you did was the best action.
 
The only way you'd get me out of this country (USA) is in a body bag.". My wife and friends think I'm nuts to think this way, but when most "civilized" countries would throw a man in prison for defending themselves or loved ones, I question their civility.
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I have to agree with that, that's a big problem with the UK, I would have pushed some kind of barrier (furniture works) and gotten away from door. Bayonet in hand would have been great. But in the heat of the moment, that doesn't always happen, I know what you mean. And I agree with the Mindset, Skillset, Toolset philoso
phy
 
I do remember thinking about my bayonet at the time, but as stated by the poster above, i probably would have ended up in prison if I had found and used it.
A kitchen knife would have been more defensible in court, as the bayonet would have been portrayed as an 'evil weapon', but either way chances are i would have gone to prison if I had used an edged weapon.
Basically, if you defend your life in Britain, you'll probably do some time.
I've often read the phrase 'better to be tried by twelve than carried by six' and I guess that applies to any self defense situation, but in Britain the 'tried by twelve' thing is almost guaranteed to happen.
 
Wow - scary stuff...meaning the attempted home invasion, the indifference of law enforcement, and the views the UK has on one's ability of self-protection.

I, too, was with the don't lean on the door crowd until further points were made.

I believe that letting whoever outside know that more than one person is inside isn't a bad thing, so don't beat yourself up over that happening.

Are you allowed to own sporting arms, such as shotguns, in the UK? If so, what condition must it be stored in (i.e. disassembled, locked, put in a WWII bunker with armed guards)? Would a shotgun be accessible to use as an HD weapon?

Given the fact that the UK has really gotten ridiculous w/ what citizens can and can't have (remember the whole replica sword issue?) it seems to me that it might be a good idea to have a table disassembled w/ easy access to a good, solid table leg. When the bad guys showed up you were in the process of putting together your table.

Certain states have very restrictive laws. A buddy of mine in NY tells me they have a "duty to retreat" if someone breaks in when they are home. It's tough on him as he was a Texas CHL and has a nice Walther P99.

In Texas, we have some laws on our side regarding home invasions :).

Neither you or your girlfriend were hurt, you definitely learned from the experience, and you moved, so I say well done indeed!
 
jamesbeat:

Nasty situation made nastier by the UK gov't's anti-self-defense policies.

I likely would not have braced the door with anything but a purpose-made door brace. Too easy to be left vulnerable after they bowl the door over.

I'm a big guy and I like the power that comes from a baseball bat, axe handle, and pick handle. But, such weapons can't get full power in tight quarters, you need room to swing them.

From your description, it sounds that the entry is somewhat constricted by a hallway and that the attackers would have had to pivot 90deg after entering. This sounds like a job for a spear or pole arm, to take advantage of the constricted area and negate the 2:1 numerical advantage.

To translate that into something the UK authorities would not wet their pants over, a heavier commercial grade wooden mop handle or wooden paint roller handle sounds like the ticket. After they bust the door down, you treat them to some staff/jo-stick/pugil stick technique by thrusting at their heads, necks, solar plexus, etc. to fend them off and keep them at bay.

60" long with metal head
http://www.janilink.com/product_info.php?products_id=4021

1 1/8" thick and 63" long
http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/na...80&pid=_Froogle&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=708328

Also, who's to say you don't work on your auto? A good wrench from your tool kit is mighty handy up close & personal. Also, if your auto is old, some of the bolts need a LOT of torque, so a "cheater" bar is called for (metal pipe that fits over the end of a wrench that allows greater torque. Say, 4' long & made of stern stuff).

Surely you have a hammer in your tool kit? At the least, a framing hammer and maybe a 3# one-hand sledge to get things on/off your auto.

Don't you walk with a limp, or at least affect one while John Q Law is looking into the break-in? A heavy wooden cane that looks like its seen some use is a fine bludgeoning weapon.

Inside your auto tool kit, which you happened to bring up this PM, why wouldn't you keep some road flares? Once they get going, most I have used also drip a high-temp liquid metal that would be right nasty were it slung at an assailant's face, not to mention having a road flare shoved in that same face or their crotch.

Of course, the old standby is the 3, 4, or 5 D-cell Maglight. "It's a flashlight! It's a bludgeoning weapon! It's a potato peeler!" OK, maybe the last claim is spurious.

Personally, I love my hot-pot so I can use my French press for coffee. Boiling water in the face of someone who just busted down the door ought to get their attention...and have coffee ready for John Q Law when he arrives.

Did you have a fireplace in your apartment? Right there is a fireplace poker and a conveniently, pre-selected (yet never burned) & shaped wooden stave would be right at hand...

---------------

I guess what I am getting at is that there are weapons all over the place and common, everyday items can be used to defend yourself quite effectively.
 
Jfruser, while what you say is valid to an extent, I have to respectfully disagree. Having been on the receiving end of this type of attack, i can't envision having the prescence of mind to put the kettle on. I had no idea what was happening, I was shaking like a leaf and I had no idea what was going to happen next. The situation changed by the second and it was impossible to know what to expect next.
I could have used a broomhandle or something similar, but the chances of fending off a pair of crackheads until the police arrived (at least half an hour as it turned out) would have been slim to none.
All of the bludgeoning tools you mention might have done the trick, but while i was worried about what they might do to me, i was equally worried about the legal repercussions if i defended myself.
These situations are VERY different to how you would imagine them to be.
What I needed was a shotgun and the legal right to self defense.

To the other poster (sorry, I'm on my cellphone here) while it is still possible to own a shotgun or (non semiauto) rifle in the UK, it's next to impossible unless you have plenty of time and money, and I pity the fool who would use their shotgun in self defense here.
Talking of which, that did happen a few years ago. Guy had been burgled several times and terrorized by some thugs. Eventually he used his shotgun. He's still in prison.
This raised the issue with the media, and several polls indicated that the majority of Britons agreed with his actions and thought he should be freed, so maybe some of us still have balls :D
 
I think you can have any iron skillet you want, but that probably would have gotten me a manslaughter charge.
To give you an idea of what the climate is, there was serious talk a couple of years ago about banning pointed kitchen knives.
 
The finest tactical decision you made was moving away from the land of your ancestors and to the Land of the Free, IMO.

What kind of mental disease can so afflict an entire nation of people that they consider the right of self defense itself to be a violent crime?
 
I quite agree. Britain today is the product of Liberalism, a politically correct dictatorship.
Without a constitution to protect her, Britain is sinking into the mire, and I think it's probably to late to do anything about it.
 
If I remember correctly, wasn't it the "conservative" party in Britain that pushed most of the gun control legislation?
 
If I remember correctly, wasn't it the "conservative" party in Britain that pushed most of the gun control legislation?
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Yes, it was. The original handgun registration law (at the beginning of the 20th century) was passed by conservatives scaremongering about armed leftists, IIRC, and the more recent post-Dunblane bans were also passed by "law and order" Conservatives.

Gun control has to do with someone's view of Authority, not where they lie on the left-right spectrum with respect to socioeconomic issues, and unfortunately worship of authority isn't limited to one segment of the political spectrum.
 
Quote: what kind of mental disease can so afflict an entire nation of people that they consider the right the right of self defense itself to be a violent crime? answer:The IANSA-syndrome, a typical european sicknes!
 
Gun control has to do with someone's view of Authority, not where they lie on the left-right spectrum with respect to socioeconomic issues, and unfortunately worship of authority isn't limited to one segment of the political spectrum.
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Excellent point.
 
Quite so, Lee Lapin, but I suppose that an element of law and politics would inevitably creep in because I had to take them into account, and thus my actions were directly affected by the legal side of the situation.
Part of strategics is inevitably affected by law, and will therefore differ depending on location.

I will post these two links to demonstrate the effects that the media and the law had on my mindset throughout the experience so that people can get an idea of the things that were running through my head while it was happening:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6956044.ece
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Sh...itchenKnifeAtTeenagers&lpos=searchresults

Maybe it would be interesting for someone to start a thread in a more appropriate part of the forums to discuss the contents of the articles, but I'm just going to leave it at that for now.

And now I will try to offer some lessons that I learned in case anyone might find them useful when developing their own strategy:

We've all imagined what it would be like to experience a home invasion, or attempted home invasion. I (and I'm sure a lot of other people who have had similar experiences will agree with me) found that the reality is very different.

The physiological effects were nothing like I expected. I'm normally a pretty confident guy who doesn't take s*** from people, and I wouldn't have expected my body to react how it did, or at least not to the extent that it did.
I've mentioned above that my voice wouldn't do what I wanted it to, and I'll add to that that I was shaking like a leaf and my legs turned to rubber.
I had serious tunnel vision, and also experienced difficulty thinking clearly.

The gravity of the situation, coupled with the threat of serious physical injury to both myself and my ex scared the living c*** out of both of us. The added responsibility of having someone other than myself to protect and knowing full well that I didn't have the means to do so made it a lot worse.

Don't assume that there will be a brief exchange of words, a bit of gunfire and then tea and scones. Don't be surprised of there is a conversation.
I ended up having a pretty protracted conversation with my intruders through the door they were attempting to kick in.
They were threatening us, but they also tried reasoning with me, as did I with them.
The conversation part was the most surreal aspect of the whole thing. They were PEOPLE. It's so easy to neglect that side of things when you're planning for scenarios, intruder/s are a dark shadowy figure in the imagination, but in real life, they are people with faces and voices. They will say things that you don't expect and what they say may surprise you and even make you change your plan.
It's easy to think 'I'd just shoot them', but what if your intruder started crying or pleading with you? What if you lit them up and discovered they were a young teenager?
Where people are involved, the situation is inherently unpredictable.

You have it all planned out, get the family to a safe place, and use the cellphone that is part of your planned equipment to call the police. What if the police don't show up?

That's what happened to me, or at least they showed up so late that they might as well have not bothered. I lived literally a stone's throw from a police station, yet they took a very long time to respond, so long that it was all over by the time they arrived. They didn't even come up to my apartment.

I had every reason to think they would be there inside five minutes.
Consider this when formulating your plan. How long can you hold your position of safety for?
It might not be the police not turning up, what if your cellphone doesn't work for some reason? I know I've inexplicably not had a signal on several occasions.
Cellphones can crash and require a restart. Could you do that in the dark, under threat, with your hands shaking uncontrollably?
What if you drop the phone and the battery falls off? You get the idea.

What if the person or persons that happen to be in your home are not trained family members, but visitors? What if you or someone you must protect happens to be sick at the time?
What if you happen to have just got back from a bar and are slightly worse for wear alcohol wise?

And then comes the legal aspects. Right or wrong, the law does affect what you can/should do. I had plenty of stuff lying around that I could have used to bludgeon my attackers to death, but how much force is too much in your particular jurisdiction?
Can you really judge how hard you're hitting someone while you're pumped up on adrenalin?

I had the responsibility to protect my ex, but I had to balance that with not going to prison for murder or manslaughter.
I had to make that decision while I was under all the stress of a home invasion. These decisions are too subtle to make at a time when you have lost the mental equivalent of fine motor skill and gained tunnel vision, yet because of the unpredictable nature of such a situation, how do you really plan ahead?

I hope this has given some food for though, even though that may be all it's good for. :rolleyes:
 
This happend to me Wednesday.

I awoke at 5pm (I work during the night so sleep by day) with someone banging on my front door. I went to the door and looked out the peephole. Two very large men with dreadlocks were out there. I saw them turning my doorknob. I had both deadbolts locked but they were pushing on it and I thought they might try to kick it in. We've had a few invasions lately.

Went to the bedroom and retrieved my 870 and two shells. They were still pounding on the door. I shouted through the door in the lowest voice I could (I am 5'4"), "Who is it?" and they called back, "If you open the door, we won't hurt you."

I know enough to know that they would. So I racked the shotgun, and shouted back at them, "Well, I am sure I will hurt YOU!"

The pounding on the door and the trying of the knob stopped. I looked through the peephole. I just barely made out one of them running away. I doubt they will return.
 
Went to the bedroom and retrieved my 870 and two shells. They were still pounding on the door. I shouted through the door in the lowest voice I could (I am 5'4"), "Who is it?" and they called back, "If you open the door, we won't hurt you."

I know enough to know that they would. So I racked the shotgun, and shouted back at them, "Well, I am sure I will hurt YOU!"
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That's why I love the remington 870. I don't have it yet on my Home Defense arsenal but i will get one soon. I will do the same although the racking of my 45 ACP 1911 will not be as dramatic as the racking of the 870 shotgun.
 
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