Hornady LnL AP 9mm PTX sticking

[Ghost In The Fog]

Hello and I hope everyone is happy and healthy in this crazy time.
My problem is this:
PTX sticks as case is removed from powder drop through expander.
I have done many, many hours searching here and the internet. I have cleaned, polished, lubed, removed, reassembled, raised, lowered, adjusted the powder drop and adjusted pawls ad nauseam.
I switched from a Lee Classic about a year ago and I have had so many issues getting this to 90% This is the last issue and I can't get it right. Hornady sent me a new PTX. I have watched hours of videos etc. I have contacted Hornady again and they told me they have never seen this before. I know they have, there are videos on youtube and the internet
These are Lee dies that worked flawlessly on the Classic. I use One Shot case lube and that reduced the sticking even though these are carbide dies and everyone says lube is not required. The rest of the dies are very smooth and work properly.
I have loaded 4,100 9mm on this press so far and this is the best that it has been.
When I load a single case at a time, it sticks like in the video. Loading up five cases in the shell plate does not necessarily make it worse but frequently shakes the bullet sideways on the case and I have to re-position it by hand before going into the seating die.
Station 1 Sizing die
Station 2 Hornady powder drop with PTX
Station 3 Hornady bullet feeder
Station 4 Lee seating die
Station 5 Lee factory crimp die.
I de-prime, clean, and prime off press for convenience but I have that dialed in too now and have 1,100 cases sized and primed ready to go. After the 1,100 I will add the sizing and priming in to the mix but I have to fix this first.

This is my last ditch effort before taking a sledge to this. The last thing would be to buy a separate expanding die and eliminating the PTX and putting the all in one seat/crimp die back on. I don't like the combined seat/crimp die as well as keeping them in separate stations.

I am just posting this here as a last hope that one of you might have had the same problem and frustration and figured it out.
Thank you for taking the time to read this and I am hoping one of you has the answer. I have received so much great information from all of you in the past.

Hornady LnL 9mm PTX

• Ghost In The Fog
• Apr 7, 2020

Sticking coming out of the die Part 1

Hornady LnL 9mm PTX sticking

• Ghost In The Fog
• Apr 7, 2020

Part 2

 

[peels]

Mines does it also...

Main reasons why I think it does that is due to overly clean brass (I use wet stainless media tumbling) and the need to over expand the brass in order for the bullet feeder to work properly.

I alleviated the issue by first polishing the PTX expander part with some fine grain sand paper (1200 or 1500, wet) then polished it to a mirror finish with metal polish.

The second thing I do is that I use a very thin coat of lube on the brass (a mixture of 1 part Lee case lube and 10 part 99% alcohol). As I pick up cases and feed it to the press, some residual lube gets on my fingers. Every 5 cases or so, I run my fingers around the PTX expander. This slightly lubes the expander and makes the press run smoother.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I don't like Hornady's PTX system for neck sizing. I went back to their inverted funnel actuator in the powder measure and use a Lyman M-die for the neck sizer. All PTXs stick to some degree, some is friction and part is vacuum.
I always thought that all the moving parts on the powder measure sort of amplified the sticking to a greater degree. Made the powder measure slam on the way down.

I didn't quit using mine because of sticking, I quit using it because the Lyman M-die helps me seat bullets straighter then the PTX insert did.

My PTX did stick some, and yes it is annoying, but it really didn't bother me enough to use that as a reason to quit using it.
A bullet feeder die did though.
M-dies and bullet feeders for me go together like Peas and Carrots.

 

[Ghost In The Fog]

Mines does it also...

Thank you for your reply and suggestions.
I have not used sand paper and metal polish but I have rubbed the PTX so hard and so long it shines. I also wet tumble and/or use corn cob with a dab of Nu Shine car wax. I have also tried dirty brass. None of this makes any difference except soaking it before reloading with One Shot. If I don't use case lube it is so tight and shakes the whole press.
Also, I have just the minimum expansion on the case, just enough to let the bullet seat. I have it set at .379 thousandths after expansion. I have tried increasing it, it only makes it worse.
This just doesn't seem right. I see video after video of LnL presses running like butter through all stations. Maybe someone will post the answer we both need.
The only thing I have not tried that just came to me is to move the powder drop to another station.... I will do that shortly to see if it makes any difference.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I don't pin clean, I use an ultrasonic cleaner. Non contact. That's probably why I didn't consider the amount of sticking on my LNL-AP PTX to be that much of a problem.
It did stick a little, enough to make me slow down a little, but the way I am loading now, with the M-die, has changed that to no sticking at all.
Totally smooth.
You have to do what your comfortable with for your process. What works for me may not work for you. Good luck.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I have cleaned, polished, lubed, removed, reassembled, raised, lowered, adjusted the powder drop and adjusted pawls ad nauseam.
...I use One Shot case lube and that reduced the sticking even though these are carbide dies and everyone says lube is not required.
...frequently shakes the bullet sideways on the case and I have to re-position it by hand before going into the seating die.

Lubing the cases isn't required, but it sure makes reloading smoother. It does sound like you've tried most of the common recommendations for your issue.

I had the same issue while using the PTX and went back to expanding in a separate step.

What I have seen that seems to work really well, for friends who are used to either the Lee or Hornady powder-thur-expanders, is to switch the DAA Expander insert for the powder drop. It creates a seat, like the Lyman M-die, as opposed to flaring the case mouth...which has the side benefit of not letting bullets tip in sideways

 

[Texas10mm]

Uniquetek sells a M die like PTX for the Hornady powder measures. http://uniquetek.com/product/T1729

Try running some brass through your vibratory tumbler with some NuFinish and mineral spirits. Then use that on the Hornady.

 

[Blue68f100]

If your using US cleaner to the brass it's squeaky clean. So it's going to stick unless you use some lube. I dry tumble most all my handgun brass and it still sticks a little but not bad.

 

[Skgreen]

I use the RCBS version of the PTX w/my Hornady drop. You'll have to adjust it, but fit's/works fine. Still a little grabby, but I didn't switch b/c of grabbing. I did so for the "M" die effect

 

[Ghost In The Fog]

Uniquetek sells a M die like PTX for the Hornady powder measures. http://uniquetek.com/product/T1729

Try running some brass through your vibratory tumbler with some NuFinish and mineral spirits. Then use that on the Hornady.

How much mineral spirits in the tumbler?
Thank you for the suggestion.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

If your using US cleaner to the brass it's squeaky clean. So it's going to stick unless you use some lube. I dry tumble most all my handgun brass and it still sticks a little but not bad.

I think dry tumbled brass sticks worse than my US cleaned brass, I've been using an ultra sonic for over 10 years. I have very little trouble. I just like the M-die profile better for bullet seating so I quit using my PTX.
After I clean my brass I will dry tumble them for an hour, with NU FINISH in my media, to get the tarnish off them from drying them under an inferred heater.

I wish I had a microscope, I would love to look at the finish of the brass that comes out of a rotary pin cleaner vs what comes out of a non-contact Ultra Sonic cleaner. I'll bet there is a big difference in roughness that we can't see with the naked eye.

I don't think pin cleaned brass is to clean, I think it has a rougher finish from impact that promotes more friction and even galling.

I doubt anyone will agree with me though.

 

[9mmepiphany]

don't think pin cleaned brass is to clean, I think it has a rougher finish from impact that promotes more friction and even galling.

I doubt anyone will agree with me though.

Hadn't considered that...but then I don't use the pins when I wet tumble.

My reloading partner just tried a load with pins, so I'll have to ask him if he felt additional drag over the last thousand he reloaded. We addressed his initial sticking issue on the Dillon 750 with the DAA powder/expanding insert

 

[lordpaxman]

Mine sticks just a bit like yours, but I don’t have a bullet feeder and can baby the round a bit and smooth out the shell plate jump. I use SS media and fire a bit of one shot case lube, but make sure you get some in the mouth of the cases. As you have already polished, lubed, and argued with your press, I can’t offer much more. I did just get my 5% birthday discount from double alpha and am going to order one of their M die type expanders. Not because of stiction, but supposedly you get straighter bullet seating. I’m just hoping it doesn’t decrease neck tension! Good luck!

 

[Blue68f100]

I use the Wax in both, wet and dry cleaners. With the dry media you leave the powder residue of some degree still inside the case. This works as a lube (carbon) in itself. They both stick to some degree. I've got where I just ignore it and keep on running the one arm bandit.

 

[Ghost In The Fog]

Thank you all for your suggestions and comments.
I did move the powder drop to the other four stations just to see if that was the problem. Nope. Identical hang up at all stations.
I am going to try the Uniquetek insert. I have purchased several items through DAA and I was very disappointed in my last purchase from them. I bought the electronic powder checker. It worked just as advertised but what I did not realize until after several emails back and forth that it's purpose is to only detect no powder or double charges. If I want 5.4 grains, it will not alert until I have an overflowing case or less than 1.5 grains even set at the most sensitive setting. So I could throw a 2 grain charge and it would not activate the alarm. I didn't necessarily need this for loading 9mm because I look in every case but wanted it for when I transition to rifle where you can't see in the case. My powder cop die was much more effective. For this reason I am leaning to Uniquetek. Not because DAA did anything wrong, but I felt mislead and took it as a learning experience. If the new insert does not work, then I guess it will be the M die and combined seat/crimp die.
In the meantime I will try the Texas10MM suggestion and dry tumble 100 cases with Nu Finish and mineral spirits and try to see if that changes anything.
And if that doesn't work? Well, anyone want to but a used LnL? Just kidding- I will get this figured out.
But I do have a question. Why is every press on the internet and even in the Hornady factory videos smooth as butter through all stations? It sounds like a lot of us have the same issue to varying degrees.
Thank you again.

 

[SC_Dave]

Ghost, I get it, very frustrating for sure. I can only tell you about my experience with this years ago and what fixed mine. I've loaded some 30k 9mm since with no issue.

1. I was flaring the cases too much (increased surface contact expander to case) so I adjusted the amount of "flare" just to the point the bullet would stay in place during rotation to the next stage. (I too have a bullet feeder)

2. I removed the PTX and polished it with a Dremel and cotton wheel using Mothers mag wheel polish.

3. I lubricated the PTX with graphite. I just rubbed the graphite onto the portion of the PTX that comes in contact with the case.

I used One Shot for years even though I have a carbide sizing die. I probably used more One Shot than I needed but I let it dry good. I recently stopped with the OS because I changed from wet cleaning to tumbling. As mentioned I use a carbide sizing die and I add polish to the walnut media and it provides enough lubricity to the case to make sizing easier.

I have not had this sticking issue again. As to whether any of this will help you IDK, I hope it does.
David

 

[Texas10mm]

How much mineral spirits in the tumbler?
Thank you for the suggestion.

I use half and half.

 

[lordpaxman]

But I do have a question. Why is every press on the internet and even in the Hornady factory videos smooth as butter through all stations? It sounds like a lot of us have the same issue to varying degrees.

Internet magic?

I thought of one other possibility with your specific setup. Perhaps your sizer die is sizing those 9’s really tight? Maybe that leads to more stiction in your PTX? Do you have or can borrow another die to test with? Or, perhaps use your expander die just to test to see if it sticks in that as well?
While my setup isn’t butter smooth, it’s not herky-jerky either. One thing to think about is the rhythm method.... There seems to be a certain rhythm that leads to being in a zone - hard to describe but in another 5K you’ll probably find it. I just picked up another used LNL to set up for large pistol!

 

[sbwaters]

I no longer have a problem with the PTX expander. I leave it off.

 

[Ghost In The Fog]

Internet magic?

I thought of one other possibility with your specific setup. Perhaps your sizer die is sizing those 9’s really tight?

I never thought of that and certainly worth a try. No real adjustments on the Lee sizing die per se but I could try making it tight against the shell plate. You never know- Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Reeferman]

45 Colt really gave me an issue with the PTX sticking. Turns out the RCBS sizer die was sizing them .003” smaller than the Hornady sizer die. Once I went with the Hornady sticking is gone. I did however inserted each PTX in a drill and polished all with 600, 1200 and Fritz to a mirror shine. Haven’t loaded 9mm for several years and can’t remember if it was sticking or not.