How accurate are Mosin 7.62x54 ?

[Bart B.]

That cartridge was used after WWII in Soviet free rifles (M13?) taking home many gold medals in Olympic and other international 300 metre free rifle matches.

 

[entropy]

That cartridge was used after WWII in Soviet free rifles (M13?) taking home many gold medals in Olympic and other international 300 metre free rifle matches.

And none of those were issue M91/30's, either. That's like saying a stock 700 is capable of winning Palma matches, and you know that ain't true.

 

[Matt Dillion]

Matt,
All original Mauser 96's in good condition are bringing enough in the milsurp market to get a good modern hunting rifle. However, the local market may vary and it may be advantageous to trade or list the firearm nationally via things like armslist/gunbroker/etc. or perhaps at a a private sale at gunshow (if allowed). Metro areas usually have a pretty good market for milsurps.

BTW Copes is selling a bare Mosin receiver for $39.99 and barrels and stocks are around if you really want a project.
Mosin Nagant 91/30 Stripped 7.62x54r TULA ROUND Receiver

Do you have to get a bolt for them ?

 

[Topkick]

Accuracy is dependent on the shooter, the rifle, and the ammo. I can't speak to the first two but I have a target shot with 7 different loads, commercial, reloads and surplus to see how they fared out of the same custom "Mosin" rifle. All 5 shot groups were shot at 100 yards in the order marked on the target.

 

[Topkick]

Tgt.#4 is a good hunting load. But #'s 5 & 7 are Great in my opinion. I have a 1903 A4 w/ a Douglas premium air gauge bbl. certified at .50" at 100 yds. Much more expensive than your M/N.

 

[LoonWulf]

Do you have to get a bolt for them ?

Yep striped actions require bolt and trigger. As well as a barrel.
If it were me id buy a already turned down bolt thats been professionally done.
Id also get the scope mount from one of the mosin specific guys the mounts are usually better than the ati i used(which did work just fine)
A timney trigger, as that fixes the mosins saftey issue, and provides a much improved trigger pull(i polished and lightened my stock trigger, but carried the gun with an empty chamber while hunting.)
Boyds stock, tho the ati i had on mine was pretty nice for 50bucks.
Then decent .308 x54 barrel.
Installation of the barrel, which is the only smith necessary task, may cost 150-200 depending on the smith, my local smith would probably do it for 75. I'd probably have them do the scope mount as well but you CAN do that at home if youve got a good drill press and patience.

You now have a 500-600 dollar mosin, which will likely shoot with the best over the counter sporting gun.

Not cost effective but a fun project. Like I told my smith, when i took him my second arisaka action.
Ive got more guns than i can shoot, its the projects that keep me going.

 

[MosinT53Hunter]

Just my two cents...

I consider the Mosin Nagant pretty accurate, but it also depends on the one you get. For me, I bought a Chinese T53 about 4 years back, date on the receiver 1955. Its my go to deer hunting rifle, and at the rifle range, I can consistently hit the gong at 260 yards out with iron sights. Real smooth action, crisp trigger, far better than all the other Mosin's I have had in the past. The only things I have done to it is a better sling, rubber butt pad, and turn down the bolt. Other than that, its a handy, rough n tumble reliable rifle that I love to shoot. I have tried many other rifles, and keep going back to it.

 

[Bart B.]

And none of those were issue M91/30's, either. That's like saying a stock 700 is capable of winning Palma matches, and you know that ain't true

I know that as I mentioned only the cartridge used. Which is why I referenced their M13 rifle as the one I think they used with it.

Remington offered (late 1980's?) to give the US Palma Team 20 of their 40X match rifles. They were politely refused.

 

[entropy]

Installation of the barrel, which is the only smith necessary task, may cost 150-200 depending on the smith, my local smith would probably do it for 75.

A lot of gunsmiths won't even touch rebarreling a Mosin. There's always Reid Coffield....

Bart B.- read you LC. I'm guessing the Russian rifle teams were given a list of acceptable cartridges that looked like this;

7.62x54R

or else.

It's amazing what can be done when it has to be done or else.

 

[boom boom]

There is a lot of information about the Finn's Mosin 28/76 Target Rifle (and they used repurposed Russian receivers dating back to the Czar AFAIK) and they were very accurate. There is a guy who is a sponsor on Gunboards named boltman that does or has Nagant sniper bolts, ebay also has similar conversions, and ATI makes a cheap one that is ugly but works. Accumounts does Mosin sniper reproduction mounts, etc. or you can find original Russian models here or there and then you can find commercial mounts as well. The more you pay, the more accurate you can make the rifle.

If you really want to go whole hog--McGowan (and I am sure others as well) will make you a custom barrel and thread it for the mosin or you can buy one of their prefit bull barrels for the Mosin for about $300. http://mcgowenbarrel.com/mosin-nagant/ Classic Arms did have a run of bull barrels from some source for a bit cheaper and occasionally Sarco gets some oddball barrels made for milsurps. If you handload, you might want to get the barrel in .308 but if you want access to the cheap ammo from Russia etc., you will either have to do what the Finns did regarding throating (not really recommended for the long run) or go with a .311 bore.

There are some good folks here such as Clark, Bart B., Sunray, and Loon Wulf, and a host of others that can guide to you making a good sporter project a lot better than I can. My interest is the opposite which is taking buggered up rifles and fixing them up to the old military issue condition and I am a lot more accepting of average or slightly worse accuracy at the Minute of Man but I have learned that even battered up old rifles that shouldn't shoot well can do so with the ammo it likes.

 

[LoonWulf]

A lot of gunsmiths won't even touch rebarreling a Mosin. There's always Reid Coffield....

I remember one of the guys i used to talk to saying that too. Id guess taking the barrels OFF, and the extractor relief would be the major issues.
Our local smith will quite happily do just about anything you ask of him, so what is/isnt possible is sometimes hard for me to gauge.

 

[fpgt72]

As he climbs upon his soap box.


It is flat stupid to buy a $200 80 year old rifle that you have no idea will shoot straight or not to spend even more money on to bubba the thing only to make it look better and tell yourself you are making shooting better...well better is subjective term.

Or you go out and get yourself a $200 new factory savage that WILL shoot more accurately, WILL have a factory support behind it.

With any specific surplus rifle...as in ANY....I don't care who made it we are talking about a item made 50+ years ago....was packed away just in case the world went crazy again...then after they had no value to the guberment in some eastern europe hell hole (think about that for a sec) no value to even hand Ivan the pig farmer to walk off with and get shot...(in the mosin's case) they got sold to the west. Now (again in the mosin's case) if the highly trained armorer packed away that rifle made before she was born in 1930 and old Olga got that goo in everything it would have been preserved in its post WWII "refirb" state.

Now that may sound like I don't like the 91/30....wrong I have 4 of the silly things.....and like them for what they are....sure you might get one that shoots well....however it is highly doubtful you will get one that is more accurate over a new Ruger American, Savage Axis, or any other "budget" hunting type rifle.

This is not to say that yes...you can find old Fred over there and his 91/30 shoots fantastic...but this is not a-typical.

 

[Holescreek]

I used a McGowen barrel blank for mine. After cutting the threads I marked the extractor position with the barrel installed then removed it for machining. The barrel diameter was too large to fit in my indexer so I used a cartridge in the chamber for a dead center on my mill table to locate in.

 

[fpgt72]

All I have to ask is why?

For the challenge....well OK I get that....lets see if we can make a sow's ear into....a different looking sow's ear. Cool...if you are into that knock yourself out.

If someone wants to go hunting, go to the wallsmart and pick up a budget hunting rifle, spend the money you would spend on doing all this stuff to that old Mosin get some glass, and spent the rest on practice.

 

[denton]

Once I did have a fantasy about fitting a Mosin with a Pac-Nor barrel with a contour to match the original barrel. Then, I remembered what many have pointed out: It's no longer financially attractive to do much modification to old milsurps. About the most extreme mod that pays is replacing battle sights with Mojo sights, which are much better if your eyes are over 45. Other than that, I prefer to just enjoy them for what they are.

Some guys enjoy the project, turning an old rifle into something much nicer. I understand. It's fun, and needs no justification other than that. I've done that a few times. These days, my frugal side kicks in.

A small diversion: My bet is that 91/30s will be $149 again soon. Trump will probably rescind the EO blocking import.

 

[Joshua M. Smith]

Hello,

My shop Mosin is a 1939 M91/30.

It has my accuracy kit, two-stage trigger, stainless pillars, and my Classic Target Sight installed.

With my 150grn SST handloads, I hold better than 1.5moa. With my 174grn Hornady Match and 174grn SMK loads, I hold better than 1moa.

This is at 100 yards with my poor eyesight off a front rest with rear squeeze bag only.

The rifle is much more capable than I am.

Regards,

Josh

 

[Holescreek]

All I have to ask is why?

For the challenge....well OK I get that....lets see if we can make a sow's ear into....a different looking sow's ear. Cool...if you are into that knock yourself out.

If someone wants to go hunting, go to the wallsmart and pick up a budget hunting rifle, spend the money you would spend on doing all this stuff to that old Mosin get some glass, and spent the rest on practice.

You are a very practical person! Lucky for me I've reached a point in my life where I can do what pleases me and thumb my nose at those that dont get it. I have numerous practical rifles and they dont give me pleasure like my home builds do, and frankly cant shoot as well without modification.

 

[Joshua M. Smith]

Accuracy is dependent on the shooter, the rifle, and the ammo. I can't speak to the first two but I have a target shot with 7 different loads, commercial, reloads and surplus to see how they fared out of the same custom "Mosin" rifle. All 5 shot groups were shot at 100 yards in the order marked on the target.

Hello,

I get the best group with a H4350, but at 51.2 grains.

Did you happen to try lower than 52.5 grains? If so, did precision suffer or did it look like you were going to hit another node?

Regards,

Josh

 

[Holescreek]

Hello,

I get the best group with a H4350, but at 51.2 grains.

Did you happen to try lower than 52.5 grains? If so, did precision suffer or did it look like you were going to hit another node?

Regards,

Josh

Josh, my best groups are with IMR4350 at 53.5gr. You can see the holes spread in #4 when I dropped 1 grain. Ive not tried any other loads with that powder, I switched to Varget shortly after those targets were shot.

 

[Merle1]

They can actually vary in accuracy to some degree, depending on when and where they were made. Wartime models may have been "slapped together" to standards below those required during the years before. Also, those made in some countries may be better-built than some in others. For example, the Finnish models command more respect than wartime Soviets, but peacetime Tula Soviets seem to best those same Finnish guns in respect. Those guns tested after manufacture and deemed worthy of "sniper" designation would certainly make good hunters.

Of course, there are many people who hunt with M-N rifles. I would, once it checked out. I haven't shot mine yet, but I have shot another, and found it pretty easy to place on target, at least, at the limited range at which I tried it.

Most ammo sold for these rifles is FMJ, a poor (and sometimes unlawful) choice for game hunting. Suitable ammo may be more difficult to source, and more expensive, than in some more-common calibers. As the rifles become more scarce and more expensive, the trade-off is becoming less logical than it once may have been. Still, I'd love to try it some day.

This pretty well sums it up.

 

[peacebutready]

When they were $99 they were a really cheap way to get a basic hunting rifle. At today's prices, I would have zero interest.

If Trump reverses the restrictions on importing them, we might see them at $149.

What's the chances of restrictions being lifted? Would that include the surplus ammo in the tin cases? I know it's corrosive but was still a good buy.

 

[denton]

What's the chances of restrictions being lifted? Would that include the surplus ammo in the tin cases? I know it's corrosive but was still a good buy.

Nobody knows, but I think the odds are pretty good. Trump's son is a competitive shooter and was responsible for 2A in the transition team. I also think that the issue will have to wait a while, until we get a few other, more important messes headed in a better direction.

 

[Stevenvalleyky]

As he climbs upon his soap box.


It is flat stupid to buy a $200 80 year old rifle that you have no idea will shoot straight or not to spend even more money on to bubba the thing only to make it look better and tell yourself you are making shooting better...well better is subjective term.

Or you go out and get yourself a $200 new factory savage that WILL shoot more accurately, WILL have a factory support behind it.

With any specific surplus rifle...as in ANY....I don't care who made it we are talking about a item made 50+ years ago....was packed away just in case the world went crazy again...then after they had no value to the guberment in some eastern europe hell hole (think about that for a sec) no value to even hand Ivan the pig farmer to walk off with and get shot...(in the mosin's case) they got sold to the west. Now (again in the mosin's case) if the highly trained armorer packed away that rifle made before she was born in 1930 and old Olga got that goo in everything it would have been preserved in its post WWII "refirb" state.

Now that may sound like I don't like the 91/30....wrong I have 4 of the silly things.....and like them for what they are....sure you might get one that shoots well....however it is highly doubtful you will get one that is more accurate over a new Ruger American, Savage Axis, or any other "budget" hunting type rifle.

This is not to say that yes...you can find old Fred over there and his 91/30 shoots fantastic...but this is not a-typical.

While I agree with this 100%, some guys just like to tinker. I have a friend that has turned several old milsurps into some amazing looking guns that shoot very well. Has a couple old mausers that shoot almost as well as a new RAR or axis but are MUCH better looking and just cooler to shoot.

 

[Joshua M. Smith]

As he climbs upon his soap box.


It is flat stupid to buy a $200 80 year old rifle that you have no idea will shoot straight or not to spend even more money on to bubba the thing only to make it look better and tell yourself you are making shooting better...well better is subjective term.

Or you go out and get yourself a $200 new factory savage that WILL shoot more accurately, WILL have a factory support behind it.

With any specific surplus rifle...as in ANY....I don't care who made it we are talking about a item made 50+ years ago....was packed away just in case the world went crazy again...then after they had no value to the guberment in some eastern europe hell hole (think about that for a sec) no value to even hand Ivan the pig farmer to walk off with and get shot...(in the mosin's case) they got sold to the west. Now (again in the mosin's case) if the highly trained armorer packed away that rifle made before she was born in 1930 and old Olga got that goo in everything it would have been preserved in its post WWII "refirb" state.

Now that may sound like I don't like the 91/30....wrong I have 4 of the silly things.....and like them for what they are....sure you might get one that shoots well....however it is highly doubtful you will get one that is more accurate over a new Ruger American, Savage Axis, or any other "budget" hunting type rifle.

This is not to say that yes...you can find old Fred over there and his 91/30 shoots fantastic...but this is not a-typical.

You seem awfully concerned over what others do with their own property.

Why is that?

 

[Joshua M. Smith]

Josh, my best groups are with IMR4350 at 53.5gr. You can see the holes spread in #4 when I dropped 1 grain. Ive not tried any other loads with that powder, I switched to Varget shortly after those targets were shot.

Thank you sir.

Varget is my go-to for 150 grain bullets. Might have to try it with SMKs. At what load are you finding best accuracy?

Regards,

Josh