How accurate does it need to be

[Autodidactic]

There are lots of match 1911's that will shoot two inches at fifty yards. I don't remember if I have ever seen a 50 yard clean. And that includes shooting multiple times with the All Guard, and the AMU.

Sure, everyone thinks they can shoot like this.

View attachment 1054576

I may be wrong, but many hyper reliable service handguns aren't calibrated the same way. Am I incorrect that some of the extremely tight tolerances on the target pistols don't always lend themselves to utter rugged reliability in service/field handguns? Glocks and S&W M&P service guns aren't built to be target pistols. They are meant to be sufficiently accurate, while being for the most part utterly reliable.

Aren't we confusing here target competitions for field work?

 

[SDGlock23]

It is kind of hard to answer because there's a LOT of variation between shooters, so what is passable by some would not be to others. So with that said, I would strive for roughly a 2" group at 7-10 yards standing with moderate follow up shot speed. A worse shooter, maybe 4-5" would be more expected and while not "good" it's probably good enough to work.

 

[BJung]

I expect all my rifles to group under 1" at 100 yards with a benched rifle, except one - my sks.

As for handgun, the best group I remember getting was around 1-1/2 with Speer 9-115 hp bullets that are now discontinued. I think I might have been able to print a 2" group with .357-158gr Winchester hp using AA9. I have a BHP 40-155 that was so accurate, I use to shoot at clay pigeons at 100 yards in a sitting position. Maybe 2-3/10 shots hit the clay pigeon and the rest were close. Since I reload, I measured everything including the weight of the bullet to the length of the case. My thinking is that if my handgun can print a certain size group under close to ideal conditions, anything making that group larger is "me". I have factory handguns so a good group to me starts at 1-1/2"-2" at 15 yards. The best groups I'm getting right now is 45-230LRN grouping at 1-1/2-2" at 15 yds and 1-1/2"-2" at 15yds using 357-158GD. My test loads are about 0.3gr apart and the best group that prints the best load for that powder. Sometimes the best group is not good enough and I just choose a different powder until I get the group I want with the desired powder whether target, SD, or hunting. For SD, I use factory ammo to avoid any legal trouble. Currently, I use my revolver for SD and if an intruder enters my house I'm going to fill him with well placed factory wadcutters.

 

[Slamfire]

I may be wrong, but many hyper reliable service handguns aren't calibrated the same way. Am I incorrect that some of the extremely tight tolerances on the target pistols don't always lend themselves to utter rugged reliability in service/field handguns? Glocks and S&W M&P service guns aren't built to be target pistols. They are meant to be sufficiently accurate, while being for the most part utterly reliable.

Aren't we confusing here target competitions for field work?

Absolutely right. Bullseye pistol was being practiced as a standard coarse of fire in this pre WW1 Army manual



At that time, those round bulls, at 25 yards, and the course of fire, were thought to be combat training. And times change, don't they. There was a time when shooters thought they were learning combat skills by firing Bullseye Pistol.

Still, I think half the Bullseye is an excellent criteria for pistol accuracy. Now, if your Bullseye is a full sized human silhouette at seven yards, the pistol does not have to be capable of two inches at fifty yards.

These are real combat pistols, made for a military who issued them for combat. And they meet whatever combat standards the Germans put on them.





(this was a German Cop gun)



In my hands, at 25 yards, these were four to six inch guns at best. But, who the heck is shooting at anyone at 25 yards with a handgun? It happens, but most conflicts are within spitting distance. These will work fine at spitting distance, and probably have in real life.

I think ultimate target accuracy is wonderful, but I will trade a bit of accuracy for ultimate function reliability for a personnel defense weapon. In large part, because I believe the threat will be close, and it will be quick, and I won't be squeezing the trigger.

 

[sugarmaker]

If the gun and ammo can group from a good rested position (a study in itself), 1/3 of the 10 shot group size that I can do from a less supported position, I focus on shooting technique and not better gun/ammo combinations.