How can I bench a handgun?

[Moparmike]

After taking my CCW certification, we took turns shooting eachother's handguns. Hillbilly noticed that those who shot my 10mm Witness shot low and to the left. He said to adjust the rear sight. I want to confirm this with a solid test. How does one bench a handgun?


A. Which direction to get it more center?
B. Adjust it with what? It doesnt have a big knob or anything.

Thanks,

 

[stans]

Seems a lot of Witness pistols shoot low. The left thing is easy to cure, sort of... just drift the rear sight to the right until the shots hit your aiming point. The problem here is that Witness sights are frequently so tight that it takes Arnold Swartzenegger strength to drift them! The low problem is a bit more of a problem. EAA might have taller rear sights available, but I have heard that dealing with their customer service department can be a nightmare.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Seriously checking a hand gun's accuracy requires a Ransom rest, which removes the human factor. Here's your first clue: they're expensive.

Practically checking a hand gun's accuracy involves shooting it from a rest. Don't rest the barrel on sand bags. Make sure the sand bags are high enough for you to sit or kneel comfortable. Rest your wrists on the sand bags. If you hold the pistol steadily and consistently and squeeze the trigger steadily and consistently, you should be able to get a reasonably good idea how accurate it is.

Nota bene: shooting from a rest isn't a good way to sight in a pistol—unless, of course, that's your normal shooting stance and grip. When I sight in a pistol, I grip it and stand the way I normally do, fire ten rounds, and look carefully at the target. If there are obvious flyers, I ignore them. If the center of the main group of shots is somewhat to the left, I move the rear sight to the right, then fire ten more rounds. Again discarding flyers, if the center of the main group of shots appears to be below the center of the bullseye, I raise the rear sight.

How much do you move the sight left or right, up or down?

Here's your second clue: the clicks are just clicks. They don't necessarily correspond to anything at all. It's strictly a matter of trial and error.

If your rear sight isn't adjustable, it's probably still somewhat adjustable from side to side. It can be done with a punch and a mallet. Caution recommended. It's possible to adjust the vertical point of impact by filing down the front sight or replacing it with a slightly taller front sight.

Best of luck, eh?

 

[Dave R]

Drift the rear sight to the left to move the point of impact to the right.

What kind of sights do you have? If you have a plain post front sight, you can file it down to raise point of impact. But if you have a 3-dot sight or something like that, there's not much you can do to change up/down adjustment, except replace front sight.

 

[ksnecktieman]

OOPS Dave,,,,,, The rear sight moves in the direction you want the impact to move. If you are hitting too far left, you move the rear sight to the right to move point of impact to the right. Move the rear sight up to raise point of impact. (If you adjust the front sight, it is the other direction.)

 

[Monkeyleg]

Not being in Standing Wolf's league when it comes to shooting accurately, I need to check my gun/loads from a bench.

The trick for me is to get my head position as close as possible to where it would be when I'm standing. That means lots of bags and other means of support so that I can sit upright. Putting the pistol on a rest where I have to bend far forward and lean my head down doesn't replicate the standing shooting position.

I also put bags under my wrists for support. Essentially I'm trying to keep everything exactly the same from one shot to the next. And all this seems to work for me, as the gun shoots to the same point of aim when standing as when it was benched. Judging from the results from shooting from a rest, I'm getting the most accuracy from the gun possible, outside of using a ransom rest.

The only problem is that I can't shoot standing anywhere near as well as I can off of sandbag rests. That's why I said I'm not in Standing Wolf's league.

 

[Jim K]

Before you go messing with the gun or buying an expensive rest, be aware that on a handgun hold is very important. When sighting in a handgun from a rest, make sure that NO part of the gun touches any part of the rest or bench.

Hold the gun in both hands with the fingers of the off hand wrapped around the fingers of the gun hand (golf grip) and the thumb of the off hand on top of the thumb of the shooting hand. Make sure neither thumb interferes with the slide, slide stop, or slide mounted safety.

Then rest the WRISTS on the sandbag. Make sure neither the hands nor the gun is touching the bag or the bench. Make sure that recoil will not pinch the hand between the gun butt and the sandbag.

Shoot from a sitting (if possible) or a kneeling position. This should give you a good idea of the gun capability. Then, if you normally shoot one hand, fire the gun that way, again resting only the wrist.

If the gun does not shoot to point of aim, then it may be time for sight adjustment, or ammo change. Note that in a handgun, higher velocity ammo will shoot LOWER than standard ammo, not higher.

Standing Wolf wrote: "If your rear sight isn't adjustable, it's probably still somewhat adjustable from side to side. It can be done with a punch and a mallet." That is true if the sight is dovetailed and movable. But please don't try to adjust the rear sight on a P.38 or a Luger or a fixed sight revolver by pounding on it.

Jim

 

[Standing Wolf]

The only problem is that I can't shoot standing anywhere near as well as I can off of sandbag rests. That's why I said I'm not in Standing Wolf's league.

I hate to disillusion you, friend, but the auld wolf doesn't still see well, and is suffering from arthritis and computer wrist, so he's by no means the star of the bullseye range. On the rare occasions when I shoot from a twin-handed rest, my groups are almost always smaller than when I shoot bullseye-style. I don't shoot from rests very often because there's much less challenge in it.

 

[Monkeyleg]

Standing Wolf: you and me both, pal.

Jim Keenan: I've never understood why the conventional wisdom has always been to not let any part of the gun touch the benchrest. When shooting rifles for absolute accuracy, I was always taught to maintain a consistent level of pressure on the bags/rest, and do everything else to assure consistency from shot to shot.

It would seem to me that not allowing the pistol to rest consistently on some platform would permit the shooter's hands to become an inconsistent factor.

As an admittedly mediocre shooter, I await your explanations.

 

[BamBam-31]

Me, too. Thanks for the layman's descrip of how it's done, Jim. This is one of those questions I should have asked long ago but never did.

 

[Beetle Bailey]

Jim Keenan Thanks from me, too! You just saved me some ammo and probably some headaches as well.

(edited to add: Thanks to MoparMike as well, for asking the question in the first place ).

 

[Red_SC]

The most accurate postition I've found for me is sitting down. I sit down with my back against a rest, and slide my butt forward until I'm partially lying back. Clamp the wrists or base of my hands between my knees and shoot. It sounds awkward, but is natural and very accurate. It also doesn't change my point of impact.

 

[Jim K]

Hi, Monkeyleg,

A good question, but the "conventional wisdom" is correct. The reason is the way a handgun recoils. Any gun recoils around its own center of gravity (COG). Most guns recoil upward when fired because the barrel is above the COG of the gun. The actual recoil force is directly opposite the bullet movement (that is straight back along the barrel) but since the barrel is above the COG, its rearward motion translates into a pivoting motion and the barrel rises.

Now because a handgun weighs less than a rifle, its recoil is more severe in terms of gun motion. So when the gun fires, it pivots, and rises. If the shooting hand rises with it, fine, and the sights are designed to compensate for that. But if when the gun rises, its butt hits the bench or a sandbag, its recoil is affected. Also if the front part of the gun is touching a solid surface, vibrations can throw off the recoil enough that accuracy is affected. (This is true for a rifle also; resting the barrel itself rather than the stock changes the point of impact and usually spreads groups.)

Now we encounter another myth, that the bullet leaves the barrel before recoil begins. That is not true. Recoil begins the instant the bullet starts to move, and the gun is recoiling while the bullet is still in the barrel. If recoil is interfered with at this point (butt hitting the bench, for example), the point of impact will change unpredictably.

For those who doubt this, take a normal revolver (an S&W Model 10, say) with fixed sights, and set a ruler on the top of the frame and top of the front sight. You will see that when the sights are lined up, the barrel is actually pointing down! That sight arrangement allows for recoil while the bullet is in the barrel, so that the barrel will be pointing straight when the bullet exits. An oddity of this is that in a handgun, a high velocity bullet will take less time to exit from the barrel and so, all else being equal, will shoot LOWER than a standard velocity bullet. When police changed from standard .38 Special to .38 Special +P+, many instructors had a problem explaining why the new loads shot so low. Some, having no knowledge of the facts, told the trainees that the new ammo was designed to emasculate the bad guys!

Jim

 

[pbhome71]

Jim,

Thanks for the informaiton. Especially why a faster projectile shoots lower than a slower one.

I saw this with my Taurus. 38+p shoots at my POA, while a full load 158gr 357mag shoots lower.

Thanks again.

-Pat

 

[Monkeyleg]

Jim, that was a great explanation. Next time I'm at the range--meaning if I ever get the time again--I'll try the "proper" way of benching the pistol and see what happens.

How did you ever get to know so much?

 

[Standing Wolf]

Jim Keenan:

I knew some of that, but never understood all of it. Thanks, eh?