How Do Private Protection Companies Get Automatic Weapons?

[JLStorm]

I work for a small company doing investigation personal protection and recovery. I was thinking of opening my own company, and I was wondering how some of these larger protection companies are able to get fully automatic military style weapons? I know some of them do overseas and military contracting, but some of them just guard foreign figures and high profile clients both in and out of the USA and they boast about certain restricted weapons that are very hard to get.

Its not so much that the companies are able to get these weapons, I mean you are I could get an automatic weapon with the right paperwork background checks and amount of money, and time, but some of their employees that have nothing but some past military experience or some non military advanced training are able to carry these weapons, that is the part I never understood but also didnt have a reason to ask, because my company does NOT have any restricted weapons now that the hicap ban has been lifted.

I may try asking around, but I dont want to show my ignorance, especially as I am hoping to recruit some of the guys I know that I would have to ask . In my position I only need handguns and concealable body armor as I am in a suit and look like a professional escort, although I suppose its not hard to figure out why I am there. However, if I want to compete with the big boys I would like to know what they are doing that we arent, whatever it is, I am sure it costs a lot, but its a nice to be able to advertise and a big deal to some important people with lots of money to spend I suppose.

Anyway, any ideas how the process works?

 

[Spreadfire Arms]

if a security contractor is working CONUS with post-86 automatic weapons most likely they are contracted by the federal government to do that specific protection.

Class III FFL's (SOT's) can obtain post-86 automatic weapons for demonstration purposes to law enforcement agencies, but that requires a valid T&E letter from the requesting department signed by the Chief of Police or his/her designee. only 2 of a particular weapon are allowed, however.

there is no other way that i am aware of, unless you are out there purchasing transferable machine guns, which would probably render you out of money fairly quickly.

this question has been asked and answered on several gun discussion boards. in short, forming a corporation does not allow you to obtain post-86 machine guns. it only allows the bypassing of a CLEO signature to obtain civilian legal (transferable) machine guns and other Title II weapons.

i suppose you could chase down a federal contract, but again, that federal agency must supply the weapons.

 

[JLStorm]

Very strange, I cant imagine the US government is supplying weapons to protect foreign figures, but then again, maybe they are since its mostly done in DC, and we all know how hard it is to be armed in DC, let alone carry automatic weapons. All I know is that these are contracted individuals through privately held companies who do not currently work for the government, but may be working on contract with the government. Its not so much owning an automatic weapon, its carrying or storing it locked and loaded in the transport vehicle. It may be that the vehicle is considered an extension of the country from which the client is visiting, but even so I would assume it would be a lot of paperwork and an expensive process. I'll have to look more into it, either way it sounds to complex for my budget....

 

[Jeff White]

IIRC there was an amendment made to the law to allow these private security companies to possess post 1986 machine guns.

Jeff

 

[JLStorm]

hmm...I'll have to look into that...I cant imagine becoming one of "these" companies is cheap...Im sure the politicians want their cut out of it.

I know if you are using the weapons overseas for defense contracting it really isnt that difficult, I believe colt even does the export paperwork for you if you already have a contract, but I wasnt aware of a law that made it legal for use inside the US, however, I am certainly no expert!

 

[whm1974]

Why not use the legal semi auto versions o these weapons? Or maybe SBRs might be a solution.

Given how nasty the ATF can be and how easy it is to lose paperwork and such, I rather just have the legal weapons.

-Bill

 

[LAK]

As in most other key areas of corporate and gov overlap - it is not who you are, it's who you know.

-----------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

 

[JLStorm]

Why not use the legal semi auto versions o these weapons? Or maybe SBRs might be a solution.

Given how nasty the ATF can be and how easy it is to lose paperwork and such, I rather just have the legal weapons.

-Bill

This is an option, and for most circumstances a good one, since much more often than not "assault" rifles are used for intimidation as most threats are in handgun range. It just annoys me that Id lose some business because of this, but with the cost of the restriced weapons who knows if it would even be worth it.

As in most other key areas of corporate and gov overlap - it is not who you are, it's who you know.

I guess I was hoping it was possibly how much you can pay...then maybe if I got some investors I could afford it lol

 

[Master Blaster]

Have the local Sheriff deputize you then you are a LEO.

Or you could guard some Mullah from Somalia while he's at the UN, you will be granted Diplomatic immunity and you can carry any machine guns you want in NYC.

Oh wait you are a US citizen so that won't work will it.

 

[JLStorm]

Oh wait you are a US citizen so that won't work will it.

LOL! So true.

I dont want to be deputized, not that it is even an option where I live (pennsylvania). I refuse to get shot at for attempting to keep two worthless street thugs from killing each other, this is part of the reason I never wanted to be an LEO and went private. I would have no pride in keeping trash like this alive.

 

[Rabid Rabbit]

I've done this for a old employer. It is really easy.
Those companies may have a Special Occupation Tax to manufacure automatic weapons. Those weapons are considered dealer samples and can be carried around the country by authorized company reps without getting permission from the ATF. Import and export requires additional paper work but it can be and is done regularly.

I purchased some class 3 items for my company to send to Iraq. It took a while to get everything ironed out and a change in the export law because the way it was written we could not export certain weapons to a war zone. Since the govt. required us to provide our own security, the law was changed so we could arm our guys. Up to that point our guys were running around with AKs. No, the class 3 guns we sent over can never come back in to the US.

The only real problems we had was finding a airline that would accept the shipment. We shipped the guns from the factory via overnight express to minimize the chance of the shipment being stolen.

Yes, you too can get a SOT but I think it costs around $500/yr to maintain.

 

[Manedwolf]

And to think, once upon a time, an ordinary citizen could buy an affordable Thompson at a hardware store.

 

[JLStorm]

I've done this for a old employer. It is really easy.
Those companies may have a Special Occupation Tax to manufacure automatic weapons. Those weapons are considered dealer samples and can be carried around the country by authorized company reps without getting permission from the ATF. Import and export requires additional paper work but it can be and is done regularly.

I purchased some class 3 items for my company to send to Iraq. It took a while to get everything ironed out and a change in the export law because the way it was written we could not export certain weapons to a war zone. Since the govt. required us to provide our own security, the law was changed so we could arm our guys. Up to that point our guys were running around with AKs. No, the class 3 guns we sent over can never come back in to the US.

The only real problems we had was finding a airline that would accept the shipment. We shipped the guns from the factory via overnight express to minimize the chance of the shipment being stolen.

Yes, you too can get a SOT but I think it costs around $500/yr to maintain.

The $500 a year is really nothing, hell $5000 a year is easy if the demannd for business is there, what worries me about this idea is that if the weapons have to be used for some strange reason while protecting a client, it seems like we would still be fined or at least have a lot of legal fees fighting the charges, where as if the same thing happened using a semi auto there wouldnt be an issue other than some paperwork and a small investigation. I am not sure if SOT would be enough protection from the government in this circumstance if being used on home soil?

 

[mohican]

Manedwolf: " And to think, once upon a time, an ordinary citizen could buy an affordable Thompson at a hardware store. "
perhaps at one point someone could by a thompson sub at a hardware store - but affordable?

although reliable, that was an intricate and precisely machined and expensive gun to produce. It wasn't exactly a gun you saved for from you lawn mowing jobs and bought......

 

[Tommygunn]

Manedwolf: " And to think, once upon a time, an ordinary citizen could buy an affordable Thompson at a hardware store. "
perhaps at one point someone could by a thompson sub at a hardware store - but affordable?

Oh yea.....You actually could buy them at Hardware stores. In Chicago, where the gangsters made that gun famous, corrupt hardware stores is where their Thompsons were obtained.
They retailed for $180, for the 1921. If you like the ones with the Cutts Compensators, the price went to $200. (Wonder why the NFA tax is $200?)
In reality despite the fact the Tommy gun is an American icon, it was a commercial failure. A lot of people in the 20's just couldn't afford $200 for a gun when a lever or bolt rifle was much, much less. Many people didn't see the Tommygun as being practical or useful for their individual needs.
It was World War Two that saved the Thompson.

 

[Marnoot]

A lot of people in the 20's just couldn't afford $200 for a gun when a lever or bolt rifle was much, much less.

Exactly, $180 in 1921 would be about $1,950 in today's dollars. Not cheap by any stretch.

 

[LAR-15]

The US Government passed a law allowing contractors who protect nuclear sites to obtain and use post 1986 machine guns.

Sounds reasonable to me.

It was part of an energy bill iirc.

I believe the guns can only be used for onsite protection, official training and off site protection of nuclear materials being transported and that's it.

 

[AndyC]

The semi-auto option makes sense to me - apart from when I was a rear-gunner, I never used full-auto.

 

[LAR-15]

I do agree semi auto is generally better and far more accurate.

 

[LAR-15]

H.R.6
Energy Policy Act of 2005 (Enrolled as Agreed to or Passed by Both House and Senate)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



SEC. 653. USE OF FIREARMS BY SECURITY PERSONNEL.

The Atomic Energy Act of 1954 is amended by inserting after section 161 (42 U.S.C. 2201) the following:

`SEC. 161A. USE OF FIREARMS BY SECURITY PERSONNEL.

`a. Definitions- In this section, the terms `handgun', `rifle', `shotgun', `firearm', `ammunition', `machinegun' , `short-barreled shotgun', and `short-barreled rifle' have the meanings given the terms in section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code.

`b. Authorization- Notwithstanding subsections (a)(4), (a)(5), (b)(2), (b)(4), and (o) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code, section 925(d)(3) of title 18, United States Code, section 5844 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, and any law (including regulations) of a State or a political subdivision of a State that prohibits the transfer, receipt, possession, transportation, importation, or use of a handgun, a rifle, a shotgun, a short-barreled shotgun, a short-barreled rifle, a machinegun , a semiautomatic assault weapon, ammunition for any such gun or weapon, or a large capacity ammunition feeding device, in carrying out the duties of the Commission, the Commission may authorize the security personnel of any licensee or certificate holder of the Commission (including an employee of a contractor of such a licensee or certificate holder) to transfer, receive, possess, transport, import, and use 1 or more such guns, weapons, ammunition, or devices, if the Commission determines that--

`(1) the authorization is necessary to the discharge of the official duties of the security personnel; and

`(2) the security personnel--

`(A) are not otherwise prohibited from possessing or receiving a firearm under Federal or State laws relating to possession of firearms by a certain category of persons;

`(B) have successfully completed any requirement under this section for training in the use of firearms and tactical maneuvers;

`(C) are engaged in the protection of--

`(i) a facility owned or operated by a licensee or certificate holder of the Commission that is designated by the Commission; or

`(ii) radioactive material or other property owned or possessed by a licensee or certificate holder of the Commission, or that is being transported to or from a facility owned or operated by such a licensee or certificate holder, and that has been determined by the Commission to be of significance to the common defense and security or public health and safety; and

`(D) are discharging the official duties of the security personnel in transferring, receiving, possessing, transporting, or importing the weapons, ammunition, or devices.

`c. Background Checks- A person that receives, possesses, transports, imports, or uses a weapon, ammunition, or a device under subsection (b) shall be subject to a background check by the Attorney General, based on fingerprints and including a background check under section 103(b) of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (Public Law 103-159; 18 U.S.C. 922 note) to determine whether the person is prohibited from possessing or receiving a firearm under Federal or State law.

`d. Effective Date- This section takes effect on the date on which guidelines are issued by the Commission, with the approval of the Attorney General, to carry out this section.'.

 

[KC&97TA]

Why? Full auto-Magazine feed rifles and pistols are a waste of money in my opinion. Oh they are fun, but a waste.

If you are going to go that route I recomend 3 round burst on AR-15 styled weapons. Or Belt Feed.

We have this saying in Iraq... if you hear an AK on full auto, pop up and see were it's comeing from, if you hear bursts of AK fire, keep your head down!

 

[JLStorm]

Why? Full auto-Magazine feed rifles and pistols are a waste of money in my opinion. Oh they are fun, but a waste.

If you are going to go that route I recomend 3 round burst on AR-15 styled weapons. Or Belt Feed.

We have this saying in Iraq... if you hear an AK on full auto, pop up and see were it's comeing from, if you hear bursts of AK fire, keep your head down!

I really dont need either, but its a matter of keeping pace with the competition. I guess when one rich guy says to the other rich guy..you mean your protection company doesnt have automatic weapons, its insulting lol?? Honestly by looking at the them I doubt anyone could tell. Its just one more selling point that gets people excited, sort of like a car that goes 200mph, you will probably never need to go that fast, but you still would like the option.

 

[countertop]

The US Government passed a law allowing contractors who protect nuclear sites to obtain and use post 1986 machine guns.

Yes they did.

Post Katrina, this became an issue as at least one utility brought in their internal - machine gun equipped - police force (who were normally stationed at nuclear reactors in another state) and set up shop in one of the hardest hit states.

Here's a hint as to who it was - they had permission from the Governor to shoot to kill and there wasnt a whole lot of looting or trouble going on as a result, and the power was back on a whole week before they estimated it would be.

 

[JLStorm]

That is very interesting. As usual, there are more loopholes than I imagined