how do you feel about ccw triggerjob?

[RevolverMan567]

not talking about replacing all the springs and making it superlight, instead just having the action smooted up if it feels gritty after a thousand or so dry fires?

debating a 442, 642, or in a perfect world a model 66 snub as primary carry piece, and from past experience practiing alot with a snubby is a must, and hand and forearm fatigue seem to setin pretty rapidly in range sessions.

i read alot about how potential overzealous prosecutors can wreak havoc on you if they find out, what do you think?

 

[Huddog]

I would have a trigger job as you describe done if the gun needed it. Your defense if questioned is that a smoother trigger gives you better control and makes you a safer shooter. Mas Ayoob covers things like this quite often in his magazine articles. The thing you want to avoid is the "hair trigger." Overzealous prosecutors will wreak havoc no matter what you do or do not do to the gun. The problem with that type is that they are overzealous not usually what has been done to the gun. By the way, a bit of non leagal advise from a prosecutor. NEVER talk to the police without your attorney present. Be polite and tell them that you will prepare a statement once your attorney is present and then you will answer question with him present.

 

[Bill_G]

it had better be a really really good gunsmith to work on my CCW. it came from the manufacturer fine and it works fine. the last thing i need is some "bender" giving me a trigger job that results in light strikes on the primer.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

My advice would be to strip the gun and polish the sides of the parts and the interior cavity. A lot of the gritiness comes from the side of the trigger, for example, rubbing on its slot.

Then reassemble, fill the interior with toothpaste, and dry fire a thousand times or so. Then strip and clean thoroughly, re-lube sparingly and re-assemble.

 

[RevolverMan567]

thats about what i was thinking. Smooth it up for better control. the revolver will be a DAO most likely so smooth and consistant will be the primary goal.

 

[Old Fuff]

Today's popular Smith & Wesson and Taurus revolvers come with MIM (metal injected molded) hammers and triggers, as well as some other parts, and I don't think that polishing will do much good. Smith & Wesson still caseharden these parts, and too much polishing in the wrong place can ruin them. Ruger revolvers use investment cast stainless steel lockwork, and polishing may help, but only if you know what you're doing.

A lot of the gritty feel in new guns is cause by abrasives and metal chips left behind by the manufacturing process. A thorough cleaning and lubrication can work wonders after a bit of dry firing which will burnish the various parts at contact points, and is usually a better option then polishing.

 

[19-3Ben]

I had this debate with a coworker of mine a few weeks ago.
I use my Gemini Customs sp101 as my EDC. co-worker told me that I must be nuts because if a prosecutor gets wind of the fact that I used a gun with a trigger job for SD the prosecutor will hang me.

My reply was that if the trigger job allows me to get in a more accurate shot, and it saves my life, I'm perfectly willing to deal with having to prove a defense. But the fact is that if my aim is thrown off, or if I haven't been to the range enough because the gun is not pleasurable to shoot, then I won't have to worry about the prosecutor because I'll be dead.

In an SD situation, I'm not going to choose a weapon that is more difficult to effectively use just so that I can use a "stock" gun and avoid legal trouble later on. No thanks.

Obective#1:
Avoid the fight all together.
Objective #2:
If I have to fight, I will use the gun that makes accurate, powerful shots the most reliably and easily.
Objective #3:
Deal with the legal hassle.

I'm not saying that a non-customized gun can't be effective (I also carry a S&W M&P that has had nothing at all done to it and I trust it 100%). But simply that a lousy trigger that throws off your aim won't even get you as far at the prosecutor. if the prosecutor is after me, it means that I am alive, which is my objective.

 

[33-805]

There are good arguments for both sides of this issue. They have both been covered here. The only .02 I can add is this. How is the prosecutor going to know? Most of them I have worked with/on/around over the years wouldn't know a trigger from a sledge hammer if you hit them with both. Be careful of what information you volunteer to anyone, ever.

All that being said, I just clean the heck out of the innards of anything I am going to carry and then shoot the thing a LOT. Works for me.

 

[Old Fuff]

How is the prosecutor going to know? Most of them I have worked with/on/around over the years wouldn't know a trigger from a sledge hammer if you hit them with both.

It would likely depend on what the investigator’s report said, and/or if the prosecutor had an axe to grind concerning the case. He or she would have to convince a jury or judge that any alterations to the action in some way affected the circumstances of the shooting. Usually questions come up if the single-action trigger pull (if there is one) is unusually light, and someone questions if the shooting was deliberate, or unintentional because of the light trigger and substantial mental stress at the time. This is one reason many law enforcement agencies and police departments went to double-action only (DAO) revolvers and later, automatic pistols.

I don’t lose a lot of sleep over this, but it is one reason to have action work done by a known professional. If the issue comes up you can be sure that at least one attorney in the case will have the handgun disassembled and examined to determine if there were any mechanical alterations that might have caused an unintentional discharge. If something is found you can bet the farm on the likelihood that that someone will claim wrongful death, regardless of the true circumstances.

 

[packnrat]

only time i would "improve" a trigger is on a special rifle, to remove any stiffness to improve the aim...less chance of moving the gun when pulling on the trigger.

you know mob.

or if there is a problem with how the trigger works.aka stickey.

 

[pinkymingeo]

I think global warming will drown you, or maybe an asteroid impact flatten you, before you're prosecuted for having a trigger job. Total nonsense! I recommend finding something better to worry about.

 

[19-3Ben]

How is the prosecutor going to know?

Well, in my case, if he can't figure it out, he's not really too brilliant.

here's the side of my gun:LINK.

If he misses that little clue...

 

[Old Fuff]

I think global warming will drown you, or maybe an asteroid impact flatten you, before you're prosecuted for having a trigger job. Total nonsense! I recommend finding something better to worry about.

The Old Fuff, who as an expert witness testified on several occasions concerning the mechanical integrity of a “firearm in evidence” suggests that you avoid asteroids.

Not sure about Global Warming though…

 

[33-805]

Old Fuff, I will bow to your expertise, what with you having been called as an expert witness. However, I still stand by my remarks about the prosecutors I have seen at work. I watched an entire shooting case go off without anyone even mentioning the firearm in question other than to identify it and make sure the chain of evidence was unbroken. Maybe the lawyers are sharper in your neck of the woods....

As to disasters to worry about, I still plan for and prepare for zombies. That one is going to catch a lot of people seriously flat footed one of these days!

 

[Hawk]

I invoke the writings of my elders when it comes to revolver trigger mods. Grant Cunningham suggests the rendering of a defensive revolver DAO. However, I would expect that particular DA trigger to be nice indeed. Based on an article mirrored on Grant's site by Mas Ayoob, I would guess that Mr. Ayoob is OK with Grant's work on a carry gun and Ayoob is not known for being particularly cavalier with firearm mods.

I'd read that as "if you lose the single action and use a well known 'smith, you're probably OK with a pretty slicked up double action". I could always be mis-reading the thing, though.

Common sense has little to do with many court proceedings but if it did one could hardly argue that a double action trigger is more sensitive than one found on a 1911 pattern sidearm.

 

[Old Fuff]

33-805:

It's like getting hit by lightning - it doesn't happen often, but it does happen. When it does it usually involves deep pockets ($$$) or a high profile case. I don't think the lawyers I delt with were smarter, but some investigators are. Sometimes it takes dropping a brick on the attorney’s foot to get their attention.

The other side of the coin is civil suits where big money may be at stake. The rules of evidence are not as strict, and attorneys are more likely to be willing to spend money examining anything that might give them a lever.

I don’t worry too much either, but personal experience tells me that such cases do happen. I also know that measurable improvement can be obtained without leaving any obvious indicators that anything was done, and it helps if a casual examination of the exterior, or simply cocking the hammer and pulling the trigger doesn’t set off alarm bells.

One other thing: A good place to get work done is sometimes at the manufacturer. The work won’t void your warrantee, and you won’t find a factory representative testifying against you – in fact it may turn out the other way around.

 

[Old Fuff]

Common sense has little to do with many court proceedings but if it did one could hardly argue that a double action trigger is more sensitive than one found on a 1911 pattern sidearm.

Grant, as usual, is right. Notice he recommends Double-Action-Only - or DAO. The cases I'm aware of is where the single-action feature wasn't removed, and then the double-action was reduced to the point where the single-action pull became too light, and below factory specification.

Given this situation the bottom-feeder would file a wrongful death suit, or a prosecutor would claim, that the shooting was unintended and unjustified because the shooter's "hair trigger" went off went off unexpectedly.

And yes, in some courts this worked.

 

[earplug]

A light DA trigger makes hitting the target much easier then most factory DA triggers. Sights stay lined up and all is better.
As long as the carry ammunition works all is fine.

 

[Hawk]

Might have some bearing on why Dawson refused to lighten the trigger on my mutant 1911-ish thing below 4-1/2# due to its being a "service weapon" despite my not inconsiderable whining. Turned out they were right - a "crisp beyond words" 4.5 actually works quite well for me.

"Lightning striking" seems a good analogy. Depending on one's locale, a run-amock prosecuter may or may not be too much of a concern but I've never really worried about a civil aftermath.

This is based on the observation that I'm not worth much money. The odds that the perps family will be independently wealthy seems small as does the chance that an attorney working on contingency is going to risk his or his firm's money on my winning the lotto.

I respect the views of those concerned over civil trials but the plain fact of the matter is that most that I've read about involved a public servant where the taxpayers might be expected to fund the enterprise or someone with O.J.'s former net worth or generous insurance. Given someone with a significant portion of a mortgage remaining along with a car loan, an insurance company that majored in "denial" and nothing of note for future earnings it would take a special kind of stupid for a plaintiff's attorney to consider gearing up.

Contingency is one thing, pro bono is quite another.

But I'm pleased that I'm surrounded (digitally) by the Forbes top 50, judging by the degree of stress exhibited by some. I would be pleased to have to fret over such a thing.

 

[hoptob]

co-worker told me that I must be nuts because if a prosecutor gets wind of the fact that I used a gun with a trigger job for SD the prosecutor will hang me.

Hmm, I must be nuts too. All my carry pieces have loving trigger jobs done by yours truely... But let's look at the bright side. At least I'd get to meet the prosecutor not the coroner.

Mike

 

[Jim K]

Hi, Huddog,

Since you are a prosecutor, may I ask you a question concerning your advice.

First, I am not an attorney or a prosecutor, but I have been a law enforcement officer. The advice to never talk to the police without your attorney present is true if/when 1) you have been "Mirandized" or 2) you are clearly considered a suspect in a crime. But a witness has a legal obligation to respond to reasonable questions by officers concerning the incident, in order to apprehend the perpetrator and/or prevent other crimes.

If, as an officer, I have good cause to believe that the witness saw and can identify the suspect, got a license number or description of the suspect's car, etc., and won't tell me, I will place him under arrest for obstruction of justice, and then he can ask for his attorney.

Jim