how do you feel about the NRA?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Solutions, then? I'm all ears.
Well, I personally think the best way to increase gun rights is by spreading gun ownership.

How about this: instead of using the money for firearms education and lobbying and printing thousands of money pleas, use the money to buy weapons.
And then give those weapons to law abiding citizens....like military vets returning from Iraq and Afghanistan and military personnel ETS'ing from active duty.
Kind of like when the police conduct "gun buy backs", but only in reverse....gun give-a-ways to citizens.

There are alot of young guys and gals who have served this nation with honor, yet they can't afford a weapon of their own.
If more folks owned weapons then they would have a greater stake in maintaining the 2nd Amendment.

Forget "a chicken in every pot", instead aim for "a gun in every hand"!
 
Guys and gals, be realistic...

Do we all want "No Comprimise?" Yes. Would it be great if the 2A was followed exactly as it's obviously written? Yes. Would the world be wonderful if everything was all wine and roses? Yes.

However...

The world ain't perfect and the only way you are going to get your way all the way is if you live in a dictatorship and you are the dictator. Until then life is politics. It's some degree of give and take with each and every other human being on the planet. Like it or not, that's life. Argue with it all you want, that's life. Ignore it or not, that's life. You can set yourself outside it, your screams falling on deaf ears. Or you can learn to live within it, using its own conventions to slowly mold it to your wishes and desires.

Is the NRA "No Comprimise". Obviously not. (For those who continue to point that out ad nauseum, please, we already know.) They are, however, extremely well versed in the finer arts of net-gain politics. They didn't become a political and grassroots powerhouse by being lacksadaisical and ineffective. They also understand that "no comprimise" is political, social, and economic suicide. Sure, it gives you a nice fuzzy feeling that you haven't given quarter. But fuzzy feelings don't pay for training programs or influence legislation.

They need money to operate. There are proven ways of making that money. That includes mailers and phone calls. So you don't like mailers and phone calls? Okay. Check the box that says so on your membership renewal. Or call. Or email. It isn't hard. Really. Just stop wasting precious time and breath moaning to the rest of us about something YOU have the power to change.

Finally, righteous indignation aside, being "no comprimise" is pretty much guaranteed to end with everyone else viewing you as an absolutist kook. Definitely not the way to win friends and influence people. Again, warm fuzzies, but at what ultimate cost?

So it comes down to this... Given the choice between "Some comprimise but net positive effect" and "No comprimise and ineffective", well.. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see which is better. Arguing the point here, but doing nothing to effect changes there doesn't make people like me very receptive to your side of the issue.

Brad
 
Given the choice between "Some comprimise but net positive effect" and "No comprimise and ineffective",

And that, Brad, is *exactly* what I meant when I spoke of the false dichotomy expressed by staunch supporters of the NRA's current practices.

For example, Cheese did not say he didn't want promotional and informational material from the NRA. He actually said that he wants promotional and informational material, he just wants it to insult his intelligence a bit less.

That is a proposed solution right there. Take is as a suggestion, a bit of constructive criticism, not as an insult.

If I didn't think the NRA was worthwhile, I wouldn't be talking about this. I don't bother posting in GOA threads. I think the NRA needs serious changes. I'm working at the bottom and speaking to the top and to everyone else across the spectrum. Criticism is good. Treating people who are critical like traitors and tarring them all with the same brush as the do-nothings who just complain non-constructively does absolutely no good to advance the cause.

One important thing people can do is keep the intellectual level of discussions like this one high, and to keep away from over-simplistic attacks on each other.

Sorry, but the attitude of "if you're not with us you are against us" does as much to hurt the cause as the people who dismiss the NRA completely and speak out against it.

I think the NRA has serious, pervasive problems in its structure and approach, in its programs, in the way it communicates itself to the world and to its membership. I don't think the resolution is tossing my hands up and saying "well, they're what we got, so they get my undying support, no matter what", nor do I think it is jumping ship entirely.

I think the answer is being critical in constructive, useful, intelligent ways. I think the answer is grass-roots leadership and expanding the base of gun-ownership.

I don't think the answer is barricading the organization as it stands against all attacks and all criticism.
 
I'll give you suggestions for improvement.
Here's an excerpt from our local VA 2nd Amendment group, the VCDL:
-----------------------------
The VCDL Philosophy

from www.vcdl.org

VCDL believes that to win the fight to restore our Rights, we have to 1) go on the offensive and 2) make use of the best lobbyist – the voter.

VCDL rejects the approach of focusing on a defensive battle until “the time is right”. Even if you win 95% of the defensive battles, you lose 5%. Over time, this defensive war of attrition slowly whittles away our Rights until we have none.

The time isn’t going to magically become right to introduce pro-gun legislation. Instead, WE have to make the time right. And we do that by constantly pushing a pro-gun agenda – getting pro-gun legislation before the General Assembly, getting voters to contact their legislators, and hounding any locality that violates the law.

Even if we win only 5% of our pro-gun agenda each year, we are advancing our Rights each and every year, instead of losing them bit-by-bit.
-----------------------------

Note what's being said here. VCDL is actually pretty good at fighting the defensive battles too, but they're also constantly pushing new legislation forward.

Now expanding on what I was saying earlier, NRAILA is even hitting me, someone who hasn't been a member for almost three years, for money, with scare tactics. They're treating me like a debtor, and faking out other people with "CHECK ENCLOSED" garbage.

Ok, if I swallow my pride and send money, what are they going to do with it?
What's going on with carry in national parks now? I can't find that at nraila.org.
There's a "write your legislator" link, but what shall I write about?
Where's their punchlist of gun rights goals, and where are their success stories?

When I look through the grassroots stuff, I don't see anything to act on - all I see is more scaremongering about how "they almost passed X!" or "now they're asking for Y!" and an occasional "Voters of Z state rejected something!"

And why aren't those ILA dollars being put to use to see to it that pseudomayor Nagin and all his cronies are eating out of a dumpster for the rest of their lives?

People talk about an organization that's 4 million strong. I don't see that. I see 4 million people sending their hard-earned loot to a couple lobbyists who are doing all the work.

So I'd suggest three things to get me back on board:

1) Already mentioned: divide the NRA from the ILA. Besides appeasing kooks like me, the NRA would stop being a lobbying behemoth and start being a safety and training organization again.
Nobody outside the gun community knows that they're for RESPONSIBLE firearms ownership. Playing the safety card more often than the "THE SKY IS FALLING SO SEND YOUR DOLLARS SO WE CAN IMPROVE A NONFUNCTIONAL GUN CONTROL SYSTEM" card is going to please both sides of this argument.

2) Stop relying on lobbyists for everything. Direct the membership in what to do. Get them to start writing legislators on a regular basis - you know, do all the stuff we encourage each other to do on this board, which, by the way, doesn't have a yearly fee.

3) Start a proactive, not a reactive, campaign. Stop supporting stuff like HR2640 simply because it's the moderate position. Start using facts like how NICS isn't stopping criminals from getting guns to at least get members exposed to the reasons why the hard@$$es think the way they do.
 
I don't think the answer is barricading the organization as it stands against all attacks and all criticism.

I never said otherwise. My beef is with those who continually rail against the NRA but offer nothing substantive in the way of alternatives. Standing up and yelling "NRA Sucks!" without offering a viable option (or at least a well-founded idea) is, well..., it's not very productive. In fact, it's downright dumb.

I don't care for many things the NRA has or has not done. I feel like changes could, and should, be made to more effectively utilize resources and gain influence. However, I also recognize them as the most effectivecurrent pro-gun organization on the planet. Does that mean they have always been? No. Does that mean they always will be? No. It means they are the most effective now.

That is the position I so staunchly support. It's not that the NRA is perfect. Far from it. What I support and defend is that it is currently the best pro-gun option given the social, economic, and political climate. If someone wants to make it better, great! So do I. But in realistic terms that actually have a chance of succeeding, not absolutist vitriol that only serves to alienate the masses further.

Brad
 
Last edited:
I every gun owner joined the NRA and sent $1 to the ILA every year we wouldn't be worrying about gun control.

If we don't hang together, we most certainly will hang seperately -- famous Patriot.

--wally.


Right on, many folks who have posted here have absolutely no idea what the NRA and the ILA do or how they work, but that doesnt stop them from bashing the NRA anyway.
The NRA's main job is supporting and promoting the shooting sports and NRA affiliated clubs. They run the national matches, members run the local competetive matches. They certify and train most all of the handgun and rifle instructors in the USA including most of the Law Enforcement instructors in the USA.
They teach children how to shoot, and make new gun owners so we can keep our sport alive. The NRA gives money to local gun clubs so they can upgrade their facilities, They paid for the New Backstop and ventilation at my NRA affiliated club ($8,000 worth this year)

Then there is the fact that Diane Feinstein, Nancy Pelosi, Chukie Schumer, Sarah Brady, Carolyn McCarthy, and Turdy Kennedy, hate and fear the NRA and blame the failure of "common sense gun control legislation to pass" on the NRA.

That last part makes me especially proud to be a member.

Dont be a twit, if you own a gun please join the NRA.
 
"If you are not with us, you are against us."

"Dont be a twit, if you own a gun please join the NRA"

Wow.

Ok I don't agree with the NRA but Now I am an anti for not joining them, I suppose it's an anti idea that I should be able to go into a gun store in CA and 30 minutes later walk out with a suppressed, full-auto, M4 with and M203. That is why I support the SAF because at least they are trying to make that happen. End Rant
 
Why is it a good idea for the NRA to give away guns to veterans? Trust me. Any soldier coming home from a deployment can afford a WASR-10 if they want one. I cannot see how it is an effective use of resources to either veterans OR the NRA to buy them guns.
 
Life Member

I am a life member and plan to stay that way. I do not agree with everything the NRA does but they are by far the best game in town to prevent the anti-gunners from taking away our guns and our God given right to protect ourselves and our families.

I do think they spend way too much time and money on kissing the hunter's asses and not enough on promoting competition shooting and fighting for our Second Amendment Right in Congress and the House of Representatives.

I will always support them even though I don't agree with everything they do. They could spend some of the millions they waste on junkmail in Washington D.C. actually fighting for our rights.

Molon Labe

Joe
:scrutiny:
 
I have mixed feelings about them. I was a member but I disagree with the spam mail I recieved. I fixed that.

I am also concerned with all the compromising they do. This disturbs me a bit.
 
Ok I don't agree with the NRA but Now I am an anti for not joining them

De facto, yes.

Just like I'm a registered Libertarian, so I have no real impact on the political process. I might as well be a Socialist, for all practical purposes. As long as there is a Democrat majority in California State Legislature and the US Congress, I am de facto supporting them, and their platform which includes gun bans, tax increases, overregulation, and many other things I abhor, and which the Republicans, imperfect as they are, have done 1,000,000 times more to oppose than the Libertarians have. See, there aren't any Libertarians in office in Sacramento or DC.

Is there a law saying that one can't be a member of the NRA (NRA membership numbers do equal political clout for gun owners, right or wrong), and a dedicated financial supporter and member of the SAF, at the same time?
 
Last edited:
I think that ilbob stated best how I feel about the NRA,
I think the NRA does a lot of good. It is also a little self serving, like every other organization out there.

There is no other national gun rights group that has done much of anything to enhance gun ownership, even if the NRA has been imperfect.

Yes, I am a member.
 
I strongly support the NRA. That doesn't mean that I support every position they take, but overall, I think they do a great job. There's a lot more to the NRA that just their political wing, there's training, education, competition, and various other programs and services.
 
Why is it a good idea for the NRA to give away guns to veterans? Trust me. Any soldier coming home from a deployment can afford a WASR-10 if they want one. I cannot see how it is an effective use of resources to either veterans OR the NRA to buy them guns.
You might be surprised at how many service members are barely above the poverty line.
Some military families even have to suck up off the government's welfare to get by.
E-1 through E-4 doesn't bring home much money, and there's never enough affordable on-base housing.
Try raising a family on an E-4's salary....it aint easy.
 
It is not that the 2nd am. is only ever being effectively protected by the NRA, it is that the NRA could be even more powerful if they would be less clubbishly good ol' boy, if they worked in different ways to represent all gun owners, or at least more gun owners.

I think the NRA has serious, pervasive problems in its structure and approach, in its programs, in the way it communicates itself to the world and to its membership. I don't think the resolution is tossing my hands up and saying "well, they're what we got, so they get my undying support, no matter what", nor do I think it is jumping ship entirely.

I think you're wrong. Perhaps you should look at the programs the NRA has. It has LOTS of youth education and hunter programs (if you don't recognize the value of that... I'll try to be high road and simply call you foolish). It also has hunter programs, conservation initiatives, range programs, women's programs, self-defense programs, initiatives for gun collectors, waterfowl programs, deer programs, big game programs, AR-15 programs, side-by-side programs.... Honestly what type of programs do you think they should have that they do not?

As for how they communicate- they are making a mass mailing, not a personal plea. Yes, I'm sure sometimes these are dumb, but have you seen television commercials? I just think marketing people must be idiots in general (no offense to marketing people here...)

So please tell me, what programs are they missing?
 
We NEED clubbish good ol' boys (and girls) on our side.

That's how DC works. If we don't have any clubbies in DC, we are done for.
 
"separation of funds, that rent on the lobbyists' offices wasn't in part paid by member fees.
You can't guarantee that a photocopier bought with member fees never copied a draft of the FINAL NOTICE letter."

I fully agree with you. You're not an accountant. :rolleyes:

John
Member www.vcdl.org
NRA Patron
 
Back on topic, I'd like to say the NRA has not been perfect. Do I believe they need to be put out of business? No.

There are other groups making gains here and there, but there isn't a group that has done as much nationally. Heck, there hasn't been another group in the position to make any mistakes because overall they've been out of the picture decade after decade.

And FWIW, what I want for Christmas is for the GOA to stop its campaign of silly lies.

John
 
Been a member longer then a lot of you young pups have been out of diapers and seen a lot of changes in both this country and the NRA. I'll be the first to say that they aren't perfect, but neither are the ones of you that are spouting off at the mouth or myself! I plan to become a life member shortly!!
 
I personally love their mail warnings. Reading them, it sounds like the jackbooted thugs are right outside my door to take my guns away.

It is really insulting to one's intelligence IMHO. I'll pass on giving them my money.
 
BradJohnson said:
The world ain't perfect and the only way you are going to get your way all the way is if you live in a dictatorship and you are the dictator. Until then life is politics. It's some degree of give and take with each and every other human being on the planet. Like it or not, that's life. Argue with it all you want, that's life. Ignore it or not, that's life. You can set yourself outside it, your screams falling on deaf ears. Or you can learn to live within it, using its own conventions to slowly mold it to your wishes and desires.

I guess that 158 years or so before the 1934 firearms act doesn't count right?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top