How do you grip it: Thumbs forward or thumb over thumb?
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Mad Magyar
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Jeff Cooper was quoted as saying "he could tell a rookie by which method he used". Of course, Jeff didn't know all the answers like the time he met and watched with awe a young Jack Weaver.......
Thumb over thumb.
It's what I naturally went to.
I've tried forward. It seems alright but only works well with some guns IMO. I have an HK P30 where if I went forward I'd be hitting the slide release all the time.
I can see the high ride being an advantage for controlling muzzle flip, but it also can cause you to get "bitten" on guns without a clear palm groove or beaver's tail.
It's what I naturally went to.
I've tried forward. It seems alright but only works well with some guns IMO. I have an HK P30 where if I went forward I'd be hitting the slide release all the time.
I can see the high ride being an advantage for controlling muzzle flip, but it also can cause you to get "bitten" on guns without a clear palm groove or beaver's tail.
coloradokevin
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I'm going to resurrect this thread, due to a current issue I'm battling with myself:
For years I shot with a "thumb-over-thumb" grip. I was originally taught that this was a more secure way to retain the weapon, and it worked fine for me during the time that I used it. About a year ago I switched to a "Thumbs Forward" style of grip, per the suggestion of two of my fellow officers (both are range instructors, and very accomplished competition shooters).
In switching to this "new" style of grip I did find that (for me) a few of the things my coworkers claimed were true: My shots seemed to be on-target more quickly, and my follow-up shots seemed to be faster. Overall, it worked for me, though I didn't notice a huge difference in speed or accuracy.
THE PROBLEM:
With a thumbs-forward grip I've run into a serious issue on my duty weapon with either inadvertantly preventing slide-lock, or accidentally causing slide-lock during a course of shooting! This wasn't entirely obvious to me at first, but it definitely came to light during a USPSA competition I shot yesterday (4-5 inadvertant slide-locks on one stage). Obviously this problem is not acceptable. An unintentional slide-lock or two can easily get you killed in a gun fight, and will certainly cost you a competition during recreational shooting!
I should mention that I carry a Glock 37 (.45GAP) as a duty weapon, and I was shooting that gun yesterday. The Glock 37 came from the factory (in factory configuration) with an extended slide release, and this part sticks out from the gun a bit more than the "normal" Glock slide release. I also haven't ever run into this problem while shooting with my Glock 22 (basically a gun of similar dimensions), or with my 1911.
So, I'm battling with the following options:
1) Revert back to my thumb-over-thumb grip... It is slightly slower for me, but keeps my hands away from this particular control on the weapon that I need to rely on the most.
2) Continue to shoot with a thumbs-forward grip and modify the weapon to overcome this problem. Again, this grip seems slightly faster, but I would need to overcome the slide-lock issue.
3) Find a different gun to shoot... This is lower on my list of options, since I've effectively shot my Glock 37 for 5 years now, without any other issues!
After my problems on the first stage of yesterday's match, I actually taped down the slide release with a piece of target tape, and solved the problem reasonably well. Clearly that is not a long-term fix, but I still didn't run into any other problems during the match yesterday.
Anyway, I just thought I'd throw this experiene into the debate here, and see if any of you have dealt with a similar issue!
For years I shot with a "thumb-over-thumb" grip. I was originally taught that this was a more secure way to retain the weapon, and it worked fine for me during the time that I used it. About a year ago I switched to a "Thumbs Forward" style of grip, per the suggestion of two of my fellow officers (both are range instructors, and very accomplished competition shooters).
In switching to this "new" style of grip I did find that (for me) a few of the things my coworkers claimed were true: My shots seemed to be on-target more quickly, and my follow-up shots seemed to be faster. Overall, it worked for me, though I didn't notice a huge difference in speed or accuracy.
THE PROBLEM:
With a thumbs-forward grip I've run into a serious issue on my duty weapon with either inadvertantly preventing slide-lock, or accidentally causing slide-lock during a course of shooting! This wasn't entirely obvious to me at first, but it definitely came to light during a USPSA competition I shot yesterday (4-5 inadvertant slide-locks on one stage). Obviously this problem is not acceptable. An unintentional slide-lock or two can easily get you killed in a gun fight, and will certainly cost you a competition during recreational shooting!
I should mention that I carry a Glock 37 (.45GAP) as a duty weapon, and I was shooting that gun yesterday. The Glock 37 came from the factory (in factory configuration) with an extended slide release, and this part sticks out from the gun a bit more than the "normal" Glock slide release. I also haven't ever run into this problem while shooting with my Glock 22 (basically a gun of similar dimensions), or with my 1911.
So, I'm battling with the following options:
1) Revert back to my thumb-over-thumb grip... It is slightly slower for me, but keeps my hands away from this particular control on the weapon that I need to rely on the most.
2) Continue to shoot with a thumbs-forward grip and modify the weapon to overcome this problem. Again, this grip seems slightly faster, but I would need to overcome the slide-lock issue.
3) Find a different gun to shoot... This is lower on my list of options, since I've effectively shot my Glock 37 for 5 years now, without any other issues!
After my problems on the first stage of yesterday's match, I actually taped down the slide release with a piece of target tape, and solved the problem reasonably well. Clearly that is not a long-term fix, but I still didn't run into any other problems during the match yesterday.
Anyway, I just thought I'd throw this experiene into the debate here, and see if any of you have dealt with a similar issue!
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two different ways you can address this, i'd actually suggest you do both.
i haven't had this problem, but we've had students come to classes who have experienced interference with the slide stop and we've come up with some solutions.
understand that the slide stop on the Glock was not originally meant to be used as a slide release...that's why it's smaller on the original 17. they capitulated to the demand of contracts to reengineer the slide stop so that it could be used to release the slide.
1. grind the slide stop down so that it doesn't interfer with your grip...you'll still be able to push it up when locking the slide back
2. place your strong thumb on the back of your support thumb...this moves it way from the slide stop and prevents it from pressing against the gun
i haven't had this problem, but we've had students come to classes who have experienced interference with the slide stop and we've come up with some solutions.
understand that the slide stop on the Glock was not originally meant to be used as a slide release...that's why it's smaller on the original 17. they capitulated to the demand of contracts to reengineer the slide stop so that it could be used to release the slide.
1. grind the slide stop down so that it doesn't interfer with your grip...you'll still be able to push it up when locking the slide back
2. place your strong thumb on the back of your support thumb...this moves it way from the slide stop and prevents it from pressing against the gun
tipoc
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This is the type of dichotomy shooters run into a lot, it's a common one. The extended slide release is a extra fraction of a second faster and a bit easier to find at speed (for some) than the standard slide release. The extended slide release was born out of the needs of competitive shooters for speed and some have come to like them for carry as well. Some shooters believe that if you are fumblling under stress it can be easier to find the extended slide release and activate it than the standard. At the same time the extension also makes it possible to unintentionally activate as you just found out.
So there are two approaches to this which folks tend to take...
One is to go back to the old slide release which you do not inadvertently activate with the thumbs forward hold.
The other would be to revert to the grip which does not run the risk for you of activating any type slide release.
If you had a gun with add on stocks like the BHP, CZ, etc. a set of stocks that canted the thumb a bit outward would solve the problem. There may be a way for you to do this on the Glock. I don't know.
tipoc
jakemccoy
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While using both hands, I use thumbs forward. However, my right hand grips the same way as if I'm shooting right handed only. While using both hands, the left hand is there only for support.
stillaftermath
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I have pretty sweaty hands and tend to shoot compact and subcompacts. I find with the thumbs forward method I tend to have to re-adjust, releasing my strong hand and re-tightening, on the weapon every three shots or so to tighten back up on the thing, whereas with thumb-over-thumb I have zero problems.
I.e, I tend to shoot fewer bullseyes, but a better overall since I've got fewer fliers from a firm overall grip.
I've always been told that thumb-over-thumb is a combat grip for weapon retention, as well, and thumbs forward is for targets, and this seems to fit with my experience (and damnable sweaty palms.)
I also use the much-frowned-upon index-finger-on-the-trigger-guard grip on weapons that are designed to allow it, like Glocks.
I'm sure there's other stuff that could be done to address this; aftermarket grips, skateboard tape, etc, but I'm not shooting to win competitions. As long as I'm hitting the black I'm happy, I don't particularly care if it's the 8 or the 10 ring.
I.e, I tend to shoot fewer bullseyes, but a better overall since I've got fewer fliers from a firm overall grip.
I've always been told that thumb-over-thumb is a combat grip for weapon retention, as well, and thumbs forward is for targets, and this seems to fit with my experience (and damnable sweaty palms.)
I also use the much-frowned-upon index-finger-on-the-trigger-guard grip on weapons that are designed to allow it, like Glocks.
I'm sure there's other stuff that could be done to address this; aftermarket grips, skateboard tape, etc, but I'm not shooting to win competitions. As long as I'm hitting the black I'm happy, I don't particularly care if it's the 8 or the 10 ring.
the reason your gun is shifting is that you've compromised the grip of your support hand by placing the support index finger on the trigger guard
stillaftermath
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Nope. I didn't develop into doing that until later, and finding what didn't work for me first.
I don't use the trigger guard grip on service Glocks, for instance, but I do use it on the compacts and subcompacts.
Though you are probably right that it's my offhand, generally. It's a lack of control over the bottom of the gun due to short grips that causes me to clamp down on everything I can along the center line. I'll have to try fiddling with it some more and see if there's something I can do with position/pressure to get a better grasp on the bottom.
I don't use the trigger guard grip on service Glocks, for instance, but I do use it on the compacts and subcompacts.
Though you are probably right that it's my offhand, generally. It's a lack of control over the bottom of the gun due to short grips that causes me to clamp down on everything I can along the center line. I'll have to try fiddling with it some more and see if there's something I can do with position/pressure to get a better grasp on the bottom.
i'd recommend not "clamping down".
let the support hand stabilize the gun and let your strong hand drive and work the trigger
let the support hand stabilize the gun and let your strong hand drive and work the trigger
coloradokevin
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In response to the issue that I mentioned in Post #80, I decided to spend a bit of time trying to address the problem tonight...
I went to my department's range this evening, and tried shooting quickly through a couple of our qualification courses. As expected, I once again experienced the unintentional slide-lock issue when I utilized the thumbs-forward method of gripping the weapon.
I then had our Glock armorer switch out my factory extended slide release for a standard Glock slide release/stop, to see if this solved the problem (as I mentioned before, the Glock 37 comes with a factory installed "extended" slide release, which protrudes from the gun more than the "standard" Glock slide release). After making this relatively simple modification, I again shot through the qualification course using a thumbs-forward grip. This time I experienced no issues, and continued to have success even when I exaggerated my grip in such a way as to try to make the slide lock back while shooting. So, at least in my case, using the older style Glock slide lock solved the issue that I mentioned above!
Moving on, this issue naturally brought up the subject of grip styles with our range officers. As I mentioned previously, two of our range officers strongly prefer the thumbs-forward method, and both of these officers are very accomplished competitive shooters.
Strangely, a couple of our other range officers prefer the thumb-lock style of grip for combat shooting, and feel that the thumbs-forward method is best left to the competition shooters. As far as I know, neither of these other officers have competed much, but at least one of them has spent a good portion of his 35 year career as a SWAT operator, and has a wealth of knowledge to share with even our most experienced officers. His preference for a thumb-lock style of grip concerns the ability to retain the weapon during a struggle, and also addresses his concerns about running into the problems that I did (unintentional slide-lock, or unintentional slide-release).
So, I guess it comes down to who you ask! In watching some of the guys on my department shoot, I do see a mixture of the thumbs-forward and thumb-lock grips styles, though I think thumbs-forward has the edge. In USPSA competition I've noticed that nearly everyone at the local matches are using a thumbs-forward style of grip.
My opinion? Use the style you like best, and shoot it well
I went to my department's range this evening, and tried shooting quickly through a couple of our qualification courses. As expected, I once again experienced the unintentional slide-lock issue when I utilized the thumbs-forward method of gripping the weapon.
I then had our Glock armorer switch out my factory extended slide release for a standard Glock slide release/stop, to see if this solved the problem (as I mentioned before, the Glock 37 comes with a factory installed "extended" slide release, which protrudes from the gun more than the "standard" Glock slide release). After making this relatively simple modification, I again shot through the qualification course using a thumbs-forward grip. This time I experienced no issues, and continued to have success even when I exaggerated my grip in such a way as to try to make the slide lock back while shooting. So, at least in my case, using the older style Glock slide lock solved the issue that I mentioned above!
Moving on, this issue naturally brought up the subject of grip styles with our range officers. As I mentioned previously, two of our range officers strongly prefer the thumbs-forward method, and both of these officers are very accomplished competitive shooters.
Strangely, a couple of our other range officers prefer the thumb-lock style of grip for combat shooting, and feel that the thumbs-forward method is best left to the competition shooters. As far as I know, neither of these other officers have competed much, but at least one of them has spent a good portion of his 35 year career as a SWAT operator, and has a wealth of knowledge to share with even our most experienced officers. His preference for a thumb-lock style of grip concerns the ability to retain the weapon during a struggle, and also addresses his concerns about running into the problems that I did (unintentional slide-lock, or unintentional slide-release).
So, I guess it comes down to who you ask! In watching some of the guys on my department shoot, I do see a mixture of the thumbs-forward and thumb-lock grips styles, though I think thumbs-forward has the edge. In USPSA competition I've noticed that nearly everyone at the local matches are using a thumbs-forward style of grip.
My opinion? Use the style you like best, and shoot it well
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