How effective is .223 against cars?

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Have you tried the legal tact and attempted to get some kind of emergency law enforcement certification?

"Deputizing" they call it in the movies, but the ability to do such a thing does still exist in some states under some circumstances.

This would appear to be one of those. Might at the very least put the law on your side if things do get nasty.
 
Im going to take a different direction here. If the car driving past is less than 50 yards (it would be less than 50 feet in my 'hood), I would suggest the 12 ga with 00 buck. Think about hunting birds you would use a shotgun on a moving target.
The .30-06 is like energizer, it just keeps going and going and going, in this situation this is very bad, you want to wound and kill the occupants NOT disable the car. Do you really want to get in a prolonged fire fight where you are out numbered against people who have no means of escape?
The .223 will make a mess out of a car and you can certainly kill people inside a car, but the bullets start to tumble after they impact the door so pentration and accuracy suffer significantly.
A final thought, cars can be very strong in certain areas as previously mentioned the bracing in the door, wheels, components of the car but not the sheetmetal of the body. The 12 gauge will help negate these strengths, 9 projos in an area the size of a dinner plate is tougher to dodge.
 
Vehicles are not cover.

Our local shooting forum has held two "car shoots" now and those vehicles have been reduced to swiss cheese.

DSCF0036.jpg
 
Things have only gotten worse in rural NM huh? Is this about drugs, race, old fued? If I were you I would get with the sheriff unless he's in on it, then go to state police they don't f around. Anyway let them know whats happening and maybe ask for some sort of restraining order against them. This at least will document your problems with this gang so when they are swelling up in the hot sun in front of your house you can say I told you so. NM politics is nasty as I'm sure you know so if these punks have somebody in high places you might as well just move and live or go out in a blaze.
Some here might think this is BS but the old south and its cronyism doesn't have jack on The Land of Entrapment.
 
There was another major incident last night. Not sure of the details as I have not been out there.

I very much appreciate the advice and support from you all. This is not what I came here for. Fortunately, this is not a gang related problem but one idiot drug dealer and his moron son and their troglodyte fiends, eh, friends from a toen twenty miles away in Colorado.

To answer some of these questions, not in any order:

Have you tried the legal tact and attempted to get some kind of emergency law enforcement certification?

"Deputizing" they call it in the movies, but the ability to do such a thing does still exist in some states under some circumstances.

This would appear to be one of those. Might at the very least put the law on your side if things do get nasty.

-Texas Rifleman

Our Sheriff has his hands full in a large rural county with a small force of deputys. There is no way he would deputize anyone who is not his buddy and especially an Anglo outsider, aka "Gringo." He did try to post a resident deputy to live here but the man quit immediately upon being assigned here.

The moving target question: Look, when someone pulls up in front of my house and opens fire, there is a strong urge to shoot back. If they are firing,, I want to fire back. If they are leaving the scene and not firing, I probably would not shoot at them since the threat has passed. Even LEOs are not supposed to fire on a vehicle leaving the scene. Ofcourse, in the heat of the moment it is hard to predict.

I already had one of these a-holes pull up at my front gate and shoot one of my dogs.

So, I think it would be incredibly stupid to fire at a moving car in your 'hood. If you have gangbangers doing drivebys in your 'hood you need to notify the police and if it doesn't improve you need to move.
-leadcounsel

I agree with that assesment if this were a more populated area. Yes, notifying 911 is an important first response. It is farilt certain that unless I have a body down they will not respond but suggest I come in to town to file an "Incident report". Note, they do not even call it a "Crime" report, too prejudicial.

Move? I have way too much invested in this farm to relocate becuase of one family of imbeciles.

Shotgun? I have four 12s- two SXS, a Bennelli M1, and a Mossberg Turkey gun that handles 3.5 inch shells. The rate of fire on these is somewhat slow owing to rather potent recoil. The Bennelli would be my number on choice but the recoil from multiple shots is hard to take. The Garand does not bother me at all. There is a lightly traveled highway in the back of the field of fire about 400 yards and that concerns me some, so maybe the shotgun is the better weapon considering the angle of travel. If I fire from the roof, the angle would put the bullets into the ground, even richochets would not be likely to reach the highway.

I would suggest parking piece of cr@p vehicles randomly up and down both side of your street --far enough out in the road to be obstacles and then placing Hesco Barriers in front of your houses.
-thinblackline

That is a good suggestion. The junk cars are not an option. However I do have a steel farm wagon that is 14 feet long and almost six tall with the steel side plates up. I could also load it with straw bales and that would make a great barrier without cluttering up the area. The shooters would have to move further up or down the road t shoot from their car or discmount and fire from around the wagon. I suspect they will not do the later.

My house is 2 X 6 framing unforunately, a berm between me and the road would be a good idea.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughts. This has helped me put this in some perspective and work out ideas. I sure wish the State of NM would spend some their oil revenues ($1.3 billion, this year) on law enforcement. The legislature will not use any of this money to fund "recurring expenses" like law enforcement. Since Bill Richardson became Governor, violent crime has shot way up. He just does not take the problems of rural areas seriously- not enough votes. He is a pure politician.
 
You answered a question by saying you are gringo and that says a lot. A guy I worked with lived in Las Vegas and told me he felt like a black man in the old south and said they might as well of had a sign that said white boy don't let the sun go down on your a$$ here. Took him some time and a few brawls to finally get settled. I'm just guessing but those drug dealers might be from Alamosa or there abouts. Puts you in Rio Ariba co. big place. Be careful and be safe. Shoot straight and keep a gun by the door. That mini 14 will mess up a car pretty bad, do you have anybody else in the house to help. If this is some payback deal and attack is imminent you may want to explor some barricade plan and some medical supplies and training as well.
 
I've criticized posters on THR for saying crackpot over-the-top things but I have to say if I had someone doing that to me and I couldn't get any help from the law, I'd seriously consider going on the offensive. The .223 will do just fine when you catch these two immediate threats to your life out of the car.
 
I think it's time to buy more gun if at all possible. Maybe a PTR-91 or DSA FAL or something of the sort. Dealing with multiple armed intruders and potentially drugged up, I would want a full sized rifle cartridge to punch through that car and hi-caps for insurance.
 
An AK would be my suggestion. And some more friends, also with AK's. Your average gang member likes the odds hugely in his favor. 4-1 odds he's comfortable. 4-4 odds and more then likely nothing other than some hard stares.
 
First, you are not trying to kill the car, but to neutralize the threat INSIDE the car. SOME 223 work OK in this area. ALL 7.62x39 rounds work well in this area.

Watch the videos of the Hollywood shoot out. Almost all the good guys shot were shot through cars. The BG's were using 7.62x39 and 7.62 NATO (308). At the end both sides were using full auto M16's. Swat ended up going under the car, ricrocheting the rounds into the BG.

If all I had was a Mini and was worried about a drive by, I wouldn't run out and buy another gun. I would make sure I had ammo up to the job, such as the SS 109 or Cor-Bon DPX.

If I was buying a gun, I would start with the FAL, or an AK clone.
 
Keep in mind the definition of 'self-defense' vs. 'premeditated murder' - based on planning to kill someone and laying in wait. If it appears you're setting up an ambush for a preemtive strike you might get prosecuted. This is much different than taking general precautions on defending your home. Going out to buy specific weapons that will kill cars and drivers of cars may appear as preparation to kill someone specific. Proceed with caution.
 
The M1 Garand is perfectly fine for what you want to do. It'll punch through the door, the bad guy, and still have enough energy to wound his buddy behind him. Since the recoil doesn't bother you, and the gun is fast to reload (just slap in another enbloc clip), use that.

Cameron
 
A rural area and out-of-towners coming in with a past history of violence is a whole different scene from what most folks have ever run into. Even the LEO "attitude" is different.

Planning ahead for self-defense is in no way "premeditation" for committing a crime. The main thing is that you don't run your mouth about what your plans are.

Offhand, I'd feel more confident in dealing with such a situation if I had an AK or an M1A carbine. Long range is no issue, nor is MOA accuracy. Reliability of penetration is the primary need.
 
Shot several different guns and ammo against an armored car door two weeks ago. ALL rifle rounds went through both sides and 147gr. nato ball went through the firing port as well. I'll see if I can get the gun club owner to email a pick that I can post. Ammo used was:

1. 45-70 - wow BIG hole. Actually that's be my round of choice for armored cars as it get's the point across.
2. 7.62x51 147gr. old surplus.
3. 55gr, 25.5gr TAC reloads. in and out.
4. 62gr ss109, 25.5gr TAC reloads. in and out.
5. wolf 7.62x39. same same
6. 44mag - big dent
7. 38spl +p - pancaked and dent
8. 9mm I think... little dent.

I think that was all, but we did label the holes on the door so I'll see whether i can get a pic up.
 
http://le.atk.com/general/federalproducts/rifle/tacticalbonded.aspx
Federal Tactical Bonded.

http://le.atk.com/general/speerproducts/rifle/default.aspx
Speer Gold Dot Bonded.

http://www.hornadyle.com/products/detail.php?id=72&sID=86
Hornady TAP Barrier.

Bonded bullets have less tendency to shed their jackets. If you can find it, there was a run of American Eagle ammo made not too long ago that used a Speer Gold Dot 63gr Soft Point. I called Federal about it and they said it was made on the same line as the Federal Fusion bullets and that it was bonded. I mention it because if you can find it, it'll probably be cheaper than the premium LE stuff.

http://ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/...-bonded-62gr-sp&cName=223-556-soft-point-ammo
http://ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/...ap-barrier-ammo&cName=223-556-soft-point-ammo
Bring money.
 
A safety steel cable that can be raised to 16" high at a moments notice, and a shotgun with"T" hevishot for the initial 6 rounds to disorient.
Rock~n~Roll with any semi after that. 22lr as primary, '06 as backup. Mini/AR optional as primary.
POA Knees and below; tumble bullets into target, don't ricochet :evil:
ooh,, getting carried away.........
That said, a very good friend attached a remote starter on a car with a std trans; if the steering wheel is turned and the direction of travel of the enemy, (hickup), is known - just a matter of looking and timing..........
BTW, I thought Pancho Villa was to damn old for that kind of horseplay.
 
I have a different take on all this.

Use your Garand, 30-06 beats .223. Aim your shots, make them count. 30-06 ball will go thru the windows/doors and may make multiple penetration of riders inside.

Keep the Mini14 stoked and ready for CQB in case they get out or you disable their car.

If you hit the driver, the rest of the shooters can pull him out of the way and drive away. They aren't heros and would probably skedaddle if they receive more than they're putting out.

If you kill their car and it no longer drives. You'll have to deal with 3-4 BGs getting out and possibly swarming your home.
 
Against a hard target, m2 out of a Garand outclasses 5.56 any day of the week. Actual m2AP will go well into the engine block on most cars.

But the REAL question is--what platform do you shoot better with?

And a better question---is bugging out an option because the next step up might be a crew served belt fed or a light .50 .
 
Wow, this is some serious stuff. If and I do mean IF you can buy another gun, I'd suggest a Saiga 308-1 with a couple 20 round FBMG mags. (Though the 8 rounders aren't bad). It's cheaper by quite a bit than the PTR and FAL. (About AK price). And it can send 7.62 NATO rounds through a car.

You could also buy an FPK Romanian sniper rifle. 7.62x54R with milsurp AP readily available and you could practive alot first with it.

If you can't buy something else, try to find some 30.06 AP. I think penetration is what is most important here. Just keep plenty of Garand clips on hand.
 
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