How has the General Attitude Toward Muzzle Direction Changed over the Years?

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Awareness of muzzle control is nothing to be casual about.
Freaking out or throwing a fit is no good response, but I'd let somebody know they are being unsafe and that they need to desist.
Ending a friendship over an incident is childish, a real friend can tell a friend he is screwing up.
I'd never hang around any place where sweeping was a common practice.
 
Was at the house of my wife's friend and her husband wanted to show me his guns after the conversation turned to that. He was trying to show off his shotgun when he pointed it right at me. I simply stated "Fred, you just pointed your gun right at me!".

His reply was "No I Didn't", and then "Well, let me unload it then". Yes it was loaded.

I think I don't have to continue further on how that particular relationship progressed!
 
It's not too unusual to be in a gun store and have some idiot point a gun at me. It happens all the time, usually a long gun or a shotgun. I'm not shy, I grab the end of the barrel and move it in a safe direction as I move my body out of the way. So far, I made my point without saying a word.
One dude had an AR15, with a closed bolt and his finger on the trigger fumbling with the gun. I gently removed his finger from the trigger, snatched the gun out of his hand and cleared the action, then shoved it back into his chest. A clueless gun shop employee handing over an unchecked gun and a stupid customer that didn't know what end of the gun the bullet comes out of.
I hope I don't get into a fight but I don't tolerate unsafe gun handling if a muzzle points in my direction. I guess that's clear to see that on my face because I don't get any flack from the inattentive shopper.

Thanx, Russ
 
seems people are becoming more careless just as people who work in gun shops are becoming less knowledgeable as to what they are selling.
 
I really dont worry about it in gun stores. These are new shooters, new to the sport and many of them dont even own a gun yet. I guess I prefer to walk along those of you who ride your high horse.

Now, at the range it bothers me greatly as this is a place for shooting, not looking at new guns from a display case. At the range, I will say something. Politely of course, I am not hardcore like some of you who would disown their children if they had poor gun handlng skills.

As far as a change, yeah... I see a change... There are many more people shooting, even a long time hunter like myself is new to handguns (3 or 4 years...) and I have a lot to learn.
 
gabepossenti,

What a great Video-instructional


Check out these WWII training films on marksmanship. They've got all the demonstrators pointing their M1's at the audience of servicemen. (No worries. It's just a 30-06.) I think maybe there is a certain sort of casual attitude towards gun safety that total war might engender.

http://www.archive.org/details/Rifle...1_Rifle_Part_1


Wow...thanks for posting that.

I learned a lot!


Now I want an M1...and to practice.
 
What do you guys think about shoulder holsters, the type that holds the pistol under the armpit with the muzzle pointing backwards?
I think these were more popular in the old days.
How does anyone use such a holster without sweeping in several directions?
 
Not a fan of the shoulder holsters for that very reason. But since we are now talking less about the attitudes and more about where it happens; has anyone notice that the people who sweep others with loaded weapons more than anyone else are the guards on prison work details? I wish NC would put some money into some slings instead of NASCAR hall of fame, sports arenas, and tea pot museums... good lord, they throw those shotguns over their shoulders and sweep EVERY CAR THAT DRIVES BY!!!!!
 
I cannot stand when people have their fingers on triggers when handing firearms and obviously not about to fire. It is a big pet peeve of mine. Combine that with pointing 'unloaded' guns and you have accidents waiting to happen. A lot of people badly need gun safety lessons.
 
I'm college age and it seems like the people who have been around responsible shooters follow suit. I've got two friends that shoot, one picked up target shooting randomly and is terrible (muzzle sweeps, stores guns with unloaded chambers but loaded mags), but the other has been hunting with his dad and granddad since he was a kid and is very conscious of safety and muzzle direction. I think proper education is key. I guess i'd consider myself a little overly cautious (I won't even chamber a round if I'm in the stand until I'm fixing to shoot) but it's better to be unprepared when you can take a shot, than shoot when you're unprepared.
 
killchain said:
NEVER EVER EVER EVER point a gun, regardless of what it is, at ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY.

End of discussion
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These kinds of things really annoy me, for I would wager endless sums of money and possesions that you have swept your walls, roof, floor, kitchen sink and your flat screen of which you are "willing to destroy" none.

I say "keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction" as in not at people or the neighbors dog, end of discussion.
 
These kinds of things really annoy me, for I would wager endless sums of money and possesions that you have swept your walls, roof, floor, kitchen sink and your flat screen of which you are "willing to destroy" none.

I say "keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction" as in not at people or the neighbors dog, end of discussion.

I tend to agree. When I carry my PT911 I flag my right heel sometimes when I run. Doesn't mean I'm wanting to shoot it. Hell, if you have a paddle holster that cants your gun slightly outward you're "flagging" your entire leg.

What gets me is the ones that claim no gun should ever be loaded until you're shooting it.
Carrying a loaded gun, or storing a loaded gun seems like a pretty darned good choice to me, when you're actually trying to defend yourself, instead of punching paper.
 
When I shoot at public ranges, I do see people muzzle-sweeping things they really shouldn't, including myself. I'm not really the guy to correct other peoples' mistakes, but I often make an exception in this case, since I don't want to know that there's something I could have done to prevent a deadly tragedy.

In my experience, shooters of all ages (and, unfortunately, experience levels) muzzle-sweep others. I can't think of any demographic trends I've seen.

EDIT: In response to the posts immediately above, I think the understanding of that Golden Rule is that one always points his/her gun in the safest direction.
 
Be safe, but don't be the safety police. One of my local ranges is so safety conscious that it is inhibiting. I can understand that these rule do protect everyone from inattentive new shooters. But I do much prefer to go to one of the other ranges that doesn't have as much of the safety stigma.
 
Call me an ass, but if I get swept with a weapon, it then becomes my personal business, and I will call the person out on it. When I was dealing firearms I ALWAYS told people to keep it pointed in a safe direction, which doesn't include other people in the shop. Some know-it-alls would inevitably put up a fuss about it, and it certainly lost me a few sales over time.

I didn't care. If a person can't act safe when shopping for guns, and puts up an objection to the simple one-sentence safety lesson I gave when handing one to them, I'm sure as hell not going to send them home with one.
 
Is there such a thing as a truly safe direction? If the weapon discharges something will be hit. The key is that the "ground" is the only thing that gets hit. The muzzle will sweep something in the building when the fella behind the counter passes you a weapon. The key is that property and not people be swept.

I don't think I have contradicted my previous post, then again maybe I have. Sweeping things is inevitable, sweeping people is inexcusable.
 
Safety stigma? Now there's an oxymoron for you.

Actually ... incoming philosophy major's thoughts.

There is such a thing. The idea is, of course the four safety rules are in effect to protect everyone around a gun owner/handler from an accidental discharge. So, that being said, the only "safe gun" is a gun that's non-existant, which is well ... counter to the main purpose of this board. Now for a less ethereal example though.
Now, let's assume for a moment, that the same rules apply to cars. One of these rules would be.
NEVER CROSS A SOLID WHITE LINE ON THE ROAD.
Crossing white lines that are solid is not only potentially unsafe, but also illegal. Now, let's further assume, you have a driving instructor, or some other mandatory corrector sitting next to you, such as your spouse, brother, what-have-you ...
So, every last time you cross a solid white line on the road, whether this be to pull in to Jack in the Box, whether this be to pull into a driveway, swerving to avoid a dog/person or any other such situation, you get a long lecture, or pulled aside by this person in your A-Driver's seat and corrected on your behavior.
How would you feel about developing good emergency or even normal driving skills?

Take for example a range that doesn't allow you to shoot from draw. Or a range where you can only shoot one round every three minutes. Or an air force range, where you get threatened with a pistol and told to notify a RO before doing the SPORTS procedure.
Would you say that any of these ranges are conducive to learning how to shoot?
Maybe a for a hunter. But the second amendment isn't written for hunters.

My point here is that there is no "absolute" rules, much like the proverbial "absolute truth."
Handling a gun is an inherently unsafe practice. Much like crossing a road. There are steps in place to avoid the worst kind of accidents. But that doesn't include a personal road guard wearing more than a car proof vest wherever you go, for very obvious reasons.

So yes. there is such a thing as being too safe.

I'm not saying we ought to break the rules because they're inconvenient. I'm not saying the rules are useless.

What I am saying is that the rules are being treated more like a religion than safe gunhandling practices at times.

[edit]
That being said I like the "property, not people" line for gun safety.
Sounds less intimidating and douchy and does the exact same thing.
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Back in Argentina, my fathers friend dry fired a shotgun in his face. Broke the shotgun and beat him with it lol.

What gets to me is beginners who mess around a lot at the range. I grabbed a pistol in someones hand once and told him there is still one in the chamber. He was sweeping everyone with it and didnt realize there was 1 in the chamber.
 
So yes. there is such a thing as being too safe.

Disagree.

I get the philosophical approach your are coming from, but there is philosophy and then there is actual behavior. As the daughter of a professor who taught both philosophy and sociology for 40 years, I'm familiar with both.

Thinking that you can be too safe introduces exceptions into your mentality, and when dealing with things that could be deadly there need to be absolutes. Particularly in stressful situations, human action reverts to hard-wired behavior that has been trained into your mind and body, it doesn't rise to what you know in your mind to be right but don't practice every day.
 
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Had an interesting dose of lack of muzzle direction at a gun shop a few weeks ago. Was checking out some old Smith revolvers and a customer next to me decided she needed to check the trigger out on a gun she was fondling. Yep, you guessed it, pointed it right at me and pulled the trigger 5 times in a row. I jumped back and I'm sure had a look of shock on my face. She immediately said sorry. Seriously, what in the hell. I was pissed that the guy behind the counter didn't pipe up about muzzle direction. This wasn't at a big box store, this was at one of the older mom and pop kind of shops. I turned and headed for the door.
 
Disagree.

I dunno, have you seen the average layman's reaction to the mathematical term of "Square root of negative one?"

I swear, if people introduced that later in the average student's life, there'd be more math majors.

Point is, absolutes turn people off and make them feel intimidated. No gun will ever be totally safe, same as no user will ever be totally safe. Hoping for either means walking out of mom and pop stores in disgust for reasons that were perfectly in your own control.

And I don't think think that serves the shooting community well.
 
I disagree.

Now, I wasn't verbally abusive to her, I think the reaction gave her the best feedback she could have gotten. The guy behind the counter could have easily said just point the gun in a safe direction next time. He didn't say a word to her. That's my point and why I left.
 
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