How likely are you to shoot me?

[scaatylobo]

@ holdencm9

I was born and lived 25 years in NYC,then moved to Western NY city [ Niagara Falls ].

Go often to Buffalo [ VERY high on the redzone list ] and NYC.

I have never had any step into 'that' space unintentionally without backing up and saying 'sorry' as I seem to find all know that space.

I guess I am the only lucky one here then.

 

[X-Rap]

I think more important than your dress is how you interact with others personal space. It's a 2 way street and yes shaved head and tats will put some on edge. Move right in on them and get to personal and you might get undesirable results.
It's what is constantly hammered here and other places, situational awareness. We daily are in close contact with many people we don't know but how you approach the people in your various scenarios is what matters.

 

[smalls]

Shoot? No. But my hand would be on my carry weapon. Had a moment of "stranger danger" in a Walmart parking lot about a month ago. High crime area neighborhood, mid 20s black male from a minivan ran up to my car asking "Can I have a dollar for gas?" He didn't get the business end of a handgun in his face but the safety was off. I told him I don't carry cash and drove away.

You would put your hand on your carry gun just because someone approached you asking for directions to a decent restaurant?

That's a little ridiculous, don't you think? He's not running up to you like the guy in your story, he's walking up to you. And probably called your attention before getting too close, as not to startle you.

 

[Dnaltrop]

The 5 guys who jumped me, and pounded me like an adult when I was 10 or so didn't run at me, shout at me, or give me any warning. In a "good area", middle of the day, plentiful witnesses doing nothing.

The joy of being taller than many adults before your teens.

Kindly forgive me if an overwhelming sense of awareness has been literally beaten into my psyche.

I fall into the "mildly Scary" outward appearance category myself now, 6'5", 200, shaved head( because hair itches!!) goatee, Leathers, No ink... I don't get many people of Ill intent approaching me these days.

My reaction to anyone not approaching me in a Wheelchair, Nun's Habit, or Buddhist monk's robes? (regardless of Outward appearance)

Lean back on my good leg and cane, Nonchalantly Shift my grip on my cane from palming it overhand, to a sword-style grip that allows me to either perform a sweeping upward stroke, or drive the short, heavy end in my hand like a wooden fist with 7 lbs of reinforced wood and steel behind it.

While leaning on the cane in this position, With the IWB my hand can rest on the butt of my pistol through my shirt, and it's just a hearbeat's span to release the cane and transfer to the gun in the event of a truly "unfriendly" sort.

It's not paranoia, but desperate times breed desperate people, and it's just gotten worse.

Trust but Verify.

 

[allaroundhunter]

Clothing is an initial indicator to me of someone to look for. However, once I have that, body language takes over in the next level of threat assessment.

If someone is being personable and genuine, I am typically not at all alarmed. And if you were to ask me directions while you were with your wife, again, I would not feel uncomfortable or threatened, regardless of tattoos or clothing.

Now, if that gust of wind comes and I catch a glimpse of that 1911........ I might ask if you wanna grab a drink or something sometime and talk guns

Bottom line, body language tells me much more about your intentions than your clothing and/or body ink does.

 

[Skribs]

Clothing is an initial indicator to me of someone to look for.

I've noticed that in the south and southeast, like Texas or Florida, this is true. Where I live, it isn't.

 

[bigfatdave]

you describe yourself as someone I'd invite to the range or at least have a firendly conversation with, so long as you're not invading personal space or rushing towards personal space

and so long as you don't stink

people who get excited at the sight of a somewhat large guy with a shaved head need to get out more

 

[robMaine]

Some good thoughts here. I think that all of the situational awareness tips you read on here are good. As Sam1911 said, it is an art to keep your distance and a defensive position, when someone who knows what they are doing does it, most wouldn't even notice what they are doing. It is small things such as placing yourself in a position to quickly get to someone's back, or block an attack, these are minute movements, just a 6 inch step to the out side, or putting your hand on someone's shoulder and moving next to them instead of in front of them as you talk to them(not really applicable with complete strangers). After years of working security at nightclubs, I find that these all occur naturally for me. You also cannot underestimate the value of command presence.

 

[Hangingrock]

We are adjacent to a recreational area perhaps the most visited in the state park system. It is not uncommon for us to interact with strangers of differing demeanors and attire. On occasion there are seedy types which may or may not acquire a different level of interaction. It’s not our intent to initiate hostile responses but we are prepared to do so but would rather not. So when approached we are polite, helpful within reason, but firm in demeanor. Of the multitudes we have interacted with we have not shot anyone and hope this is never occurs.

 

[stumpers]

I wrote "stranger danger" in the other thread.

The whole point is being aware of people I do not know and whose intentions I do not know.

Situation 1

"There's no problem here, thank you."

Situation 2

"Sorry, I (don't know/not from here/etc)."

Defensive, yes. Dismissive, perhaps. Hostile, no.

 

[Cosmoline]

So much depends on context and the little voice in your head.

 

[jfdavis58]

In the first situation my answer would be to tell you the problem and ask what you could offer by way of help.

In the second I would ask what kind of food you might be interested in sampling. In both cases, polite and friendly.

I don't have any tattoos but I also wear dark hoodies and heavy clothing; I'm a bit bigger than you but probably older. I like metal.

In general I subscribe to the notion 'you reap what you sow'; around my home you need to 'stay off the grass'.

Beyond that, have a nice day.

 

[zorro45]

Just don't tap on my window with your gun when I'm at the drive up ATM

 

[Ehtereon11B]

You would put your hand on your carry gun just because someone approached you asking for directions to a decent restaurant?
That's a little ridiculous, don't you think? He's not running up to you like the guy in your story, he's walking up to you. And probably called your attention before getting too close, as not to startle you.

Absolutely. Ridiculous to you but being prepared has saved my life more than once. I have placed my hand on my firearm hundreds if not thousands of times over the years, only had to use it 4 times.

 

[smalls]

As an LEO in the job, that's fine. Off the job, if I came up to you to ask a simple question, and noticed you had your hand on your gun, we'd be having some real problems, which might end up with one of us shot.

You're overreacting to a simple scene.

 

[Ehtereon11B]

I have no doubt I overreact 99% of the time. I know this and accept it as part of my nature. Car backfires and I take cover, usually. Not because I am paranoid it is because I have been shot at enough to be running out of luck. Granted I don't immediately think or reach to my firearm every time I walk into WalMart and the nice people say Hello. All the times I reach for it are instances that make my hair stand on end. Parking lot at 2AM or downtown.

 

[snakeman]

I perceive everyone I don't know as a possible threat. However, I don't see them all as physical threats. Some I see as "if I word this wrong will I get sued?" It comes the title of insurance adjuster. If anyone stops me on the street like you describe, to be honest, I have my defenses set and ready but am not defensive toward the person unless there is an obvious threat. I'll always try to give directions to someone that is lost and will help strangers when I don't have my family with me. Everyone has their own comfort level and also their own level of situational awareness.

 

[Losov]

You asked.

You have described yourself and with the exception of the accent, it is all by choice. If you approach me in any situation that I have not initiated, my defenses go up. My hand might not be on my weapon, but it is not far away.

Your decision and right to look the way you do - yours and your alone.

My right to interpret your appearance and to react to it - mine and mine alone.

Your approval thereof - not required.

 

[Nushif]

This isn't a question of approval but a question of assumption of hostility.

The question is:
"What gives you reason to assume in this case that you need a reason for your defenses to come up when standing in front of me?"

The notion of hoodies as a significant indicator of threat for instance has even on this board gained little to no real traction. Short cropped hair (in my case for military grooming reasons and a balding head) also is no indicator of anything other than sheer awesomeness (right? 8) ) and my question in this case would be "Why are you on alert if there is only one negative indication versus neutral or even positive ones?

Another way to phrase this predicament is
"Do ALL hoodies ALWAYS mean we should watch out?"
"Do ALL tattoos ALWAYS mean bad things?"
"Does ANYTHING short of a suit immediately mean possible criminal?"

Obviously that's not the case, so why is there ALWAYS the need for instant defensive tactics?

Is that more clear?

 

[Certaindeaf]

Most succesful serial killers are probably rather bland/mainstream looking. They don't necessarily look like a slavering skeery lunatic, all the better to make their victim feel safe/trustful.

whatever

 

[Frank Ettin]

...Another way to phrase this predicament is
"Do ALL hoodies ALWAYS mean we should watch out?"
"Do ALL tattoos ALWAYS mean bad things?"
"Does ANYTHING short of a suit immediately mean possible criminal?"

Obviously that's not the case, so why is there ALWAYS the need for instant defensive tactics?...

In general there is nothing that will ALWAYS mean one thing or another.

[1] But some manners of dress, grooming, and behaviors are more usually associated with questionable and possibly gang or criminal types than others.

[2] A stranger is still a stranger, and it you don't know someone personally, and he is approaching you, you'll need to be able to assess his intent as best you can from whatever clues his dress, grooming and behavior offer.

[3] What you don't know can hurt you. So if you don't actually know, caution (albeit not necessarily defensive tactics) is warranted.

 

[Nushif]

A stranger is still a stranger, and it you don't know someone personally, and he is approaching you, you'll need to be able to assess his intent as best you can from whatever clues his dress, grooming and behavior offer.

Exactly my point!

But what I am pointing out here is that in the grooming area a beard is not an indicator of a threat, in the clothing area a hoodie is not an indicator of a threat and in the behavior area friendliness is not an indicator of threat.

But the prevailing advice here is that clearly all these things denote threat when this is simply not factually true. So what exactly is the indication of threat? A stranger? So can we safely say that ALL strangers are an indicator of threat?

This really is a question of something that can't always be nicely summed up in a nifty little two word or two sentence bit. And that is what I am saying. Prescribing defensive behavior based solely on not knowing someone is hardly a valid defensive tactic if there is supposed to be any hope in being part of a society.

 

[allaroundhunter]

But what I am pointing out here is that in the grooming area a beard i not an indicator of a threat, in the clothing area a hoodie is not an indicator of a threat and in the behavior area friendliness is not an indicator of threat.

A beard? No. Friendliness? No.

However, a hoodie can most definitely be a clear indicator of a threat. If someone is wearing a hoodie and approaching me, hood on, and not wanting to make eye contact with me then warning bells go off. If someone is wearing a hoodie and trying to use the hood to conceal their identity, warning bells go off. Heck, if they have their eyes locked on me and have "that look" in them....bells definitely go off.

Wearing a hoodie just like someone would a jacket, then no. It is the manner that it is worn and to an extent the body language shown when wearing it that can make a hoodie more of an indicator than a beard, tattoo, or a person's friendliness or lack thereof.

 

[Nushif]

Wearing a hoodie just like someone would a jacket, then no. It is the manner that it is worn and to an extent the body language shown when wearing it that can make a hoodie more of an indicator than a beard, tattoo, or a person's friendliness or lack thereof.

And I'd agree. But that's not the advice I see a lot.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...But what I am pointing out here is that in the grooming area a beard is not an indicator of a threat, in the clothing area a hoodie is not an indicator of a threat and in the behavior area friendliness is not an indicator of threat...

It is not an indicator of a threat but it is a clue, and depending on all factors taken together may legitimately cause one to question a stranger's character or intent.

But the bottom line is that this wrangling over the question is pointless. It seems to me that you are disappointed with the ways in which people seem to respond to you. They will respond to you as they (not you) choose. Their responses are beyond your control.

You might think that people are responding unduly negatively to you. But if so, they must have their reasons. It doesn't matter whether you think their reasons are good or bad; they are entitled to their own reasons. And since people can't read your mind, their responses to you must be driven by your outward manifestations -- dress, grooming and behavior.

So if you really want people to respond to you in a different way, you need to look at how you might change the ways in which you present yourself to the world. You have control over those. You don't have control over how the world interprets the ways you present yourself.

Alternatively, you can learn to accept and live with the ways people respond to you.