How long can you keep magazine springs under tension?

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1. What is the difference between conventional and variable recoil springs?
The difference is both physical and operational. With a conventional spring, all the coils are spaced equally apart, except for the closed ends. In a variable recoil spring the space varies between coils with less space between coils at one end and more space between coils at the other end.

The way the two springs store energy is also different. For example if a conventional recoil spring is compressed 1/2", it might store 1 pound of energy. For every additional 1/2" this spring is compressed it would then store 1 additional pound of energy. When a variable recoil spring is compressed 1/2", it might store 1/4 pound of energy. The next half inch of compression might store 1/2 pound, the next half inch might store 3/4 pound and so on. In other words, a conventional spring stores energy on a straight line and a variable spring stores energy on a curve. If both springs are rated at 16 pounds, they will both store 16 pounds when compressed to the same working length, but the way they get to 16 pounds is different.

2. Should I use a conventional or variable spring when both are available?
The choice is often very subjective. Conventional recoil springs are particularly beneficial when shooting heavier loads where keeping the slide closed as long as possible is desired. Variable recoil springs reduce the battery load values with increasingly greater recoil load values. This results in easier unlocking, improved recoil energy storage, dampening, feeding, breaching and lockup. Variable recoil springs are particularly beneficial with compensated pistols and when using light target loads where less recoil energy is available. The "correct type" of recoil spring is best determined through experimentation and your own personal preference.


3. What weight recoil spring should I use with a particular load?
This is a very common but hard question to answer in exact terms and in most cases an exact answer is not possible. There are many factors which influence the correct weight recoil spring to use. These factors include the particular ammunition brand and load, individual pistol characteristics, individual shooting styles and your individual, subjective feeling of how the gun shoots and should feel.

The factory spring weight is designed to operate the pistol with what would be considered average loads, plus or minus a little. It is not uncommon for manufacturers to specify what they consider a factory ammunition load.
In general terms, the heaviest recoil spring that will allow the pistol to function reliably is the best choice - tempered by the above factors. As a rule of thumb, if your spent casings are first hitting the ground in the 3 to 6 foot range, then the recoil spring is approximately correct. If you are ejecting beyond the 6-8 foot range, then a heavier recoil spring is generally required. If your casings are ejecting less than 3 feet, a lighter recoil spring may be needed to assure reliable functioning.

Taking these factors into consideration, it then comes down to how the gun feels and performs when shooting - in your judgment. However, using too light a recoil spring can result in damage to the pistol and possible injury to you.

4. How often should I change my springs?
The performance of your gun is the best indicator of when a spring needs to be replaced. Factors such as increased ejection distance, improper ejection and/or breeching, lighter hammer indents on primers, misfires, poor cartridge feeding from magazines, frequent jams, stove pipes and other malfunctions are all possible indications of fatigued springs or improper springs.

Springs such as magazine springs, striker springs and recoil springs are subjected to higher stress levels and will require more frequent replacement than other lower stressed springs such as firing pin springs and hammer springs.

Wolff springs are made with the highest grade materials and workmanship. Most Wolff [recoil] springs will remain stable for many thousands of rounds. Some recoil springs in compact pistols, especially where dual springs are used or are replaced by a single spring may require changing after 500 - 1500 rounds. Springs that become rusty, bent or otherwise damaged should always be replaced. Again, changes you observe in your firearm's performance are the best indicators that a change is needed.

5. How often should I change magazine spring? Should I unload my magazines, rotate magazines, load with fewer than the maximum rounds?
Magazine springs in semi-auto pistols are one of the most critical springs and are the subject of much debate and concern. Magazines which are kept fully loaded for long periods of time, such as in law enforcement and personal/home defense applications, will generally be subject to more fatigue than the weekend shooter's magazine springs in which the magazines are loaded up only when shooting.

Magazine design and capacity also affect the longevity of the spring. In many older pistol designs, maximum capacity was not the always the goal such as with the 7 round 1911 Colt magazines will last for years fully loaded. There was room for more spring material in these guns which reduces overall stress and increases the usable life of the spring.

More recently higher capacity magazine have become popular. These are designed to hold more rounds with less spring material often in the same space. This puts more stress on the spring and will cause it to fatigue at a faster rate. Unloading these magazines a round or two will help the life of the spring. Rotating fully loaded magazines will also help the problem somewhat but it is not always practical.

In applications where the magazine must be kept loaded at all times, a high quality magazine spring such as Wolff extra power magazine springs, will provide maximum life. Regular replacement of magazine springs will provide the best defense against failure from weak magazine springs. Regular shooting of the pistol is the best way to be sure the springs are still functioning reliably.

6. My spring got shorter after I used it for a short time. Is it bad?
Most new springs will take a set when they are first compressed. That means they will shorten up. This is a normal event and you should not be immediately alarmed. The greater the stress on the spring, generally the more set that will occur. All Wolff springs take this set into consideration. The ratings of the springs you receive are the ratings after the set has occurred. After set has taken place, the spring should remain essentially stable for the life of the spring.

7. My lighter [recoil] spring is longer than the heavier spring for the same gun. Is this a problem?
Wolff offers many springs in different weights for the same use. Factors such as the size of the wire, the number of coils, the outside diameter of the spring as well as the free length determine the strength of a particular spring. Often, lighter springs are longer than heavier springs because lighter wires and/or a different number of coils are used. Free length is then adjusted to achieve the exact strength desired.

8. The spring I purchased is longer than the original spring so I don't think it will fit.
The free length of a spring is not the most important factor in determining whether it will fit. Many Wolff springs are longer than factory springs. This is normal and the spring will fit.

The more important factor in determining whether a spring will fit is the number of coils in the spring times the diameter of the wire. For example, take 2 springs - one is 7 inches long and the other is 4 inches long. If both springs contain the same number of coils and use the same size wire, both springs will compress to the same solid lengths. The strengths will however be quite different but both springs will fit in the same application.


9. What is the difference between a firing pin spring and a striker spring?
A firing pin spring is actually a return spring as it returns and keeps the firing pin retracted. The firing pin spring works in front of the firing pin pushing the firing pin away from the primer usually keeping it retracted in the slide. When the firing pin is struck by the hammer the impact force of the hammer overcomes the retraction force of firing pin spring and drives the firing pin into the primer.
A striker spring is actually the spring that causes the firing pin to striker the primer. The striker spring works behind the firing pin. When the gun is in the cocked position, the striker spring is compressed behind the firing pin. When the trigger is pulled the firing pin is released and the striker spring pushes the firing pin into the primer. While technically incorrect, a striker spring is often referred to as a firing pin spring.
That sounds like the oil change place that says you should change your car's oil every 3000 miles.

Do your car's springs wear out from the weight of your car when it's parked in your driveway?
 
I suspect that there might be a slight difference in design philosophy between someone designing a jet engine with springs in it and someone designing a magazine with a spring in it that can be purchased for about $10 and is easily replaced by an unskilled person in about 1 minute.

There are more similarities than you might think. The real difference is in the amount of resources available to someone designing an engine vs. an air gun, and the confidence in life prediction that each requires.

Since failure is not an option for an engine, big resources are allocated to answer questions about the behavior of materials under various loading conditions. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there's nothing more to learn...I'm open to any new failure mechanisms that might be there...I just have not seen them yet and am very skeptical.
 
HexHead said:
Do your car's springs wear out from the weight of your car when it's parked in your driveway?

Not likely -- as the car's springs aren't compressed to their limits or anywhere near their design limits.

Load about a half-ton of bricks in the trunk and drive it around -- or just let it set in the driveway -- for a few months and see what happens. That test may be the equivalent of keeping a very high-cap mag fully loaded (and its springs very nearly fully compressed) for a long period. Your example above is like saying load a round or two...and let it set. Not much of a test.
 
That sounds like the oil change place that says you should change your car's oil every 3000 miles.

I do change my oil every 3,000 miles, cheap peace of mind.

I change magazine springs if they need it, they're cheap too.
 
LEO, with exceptions, are NOT gun USERS or SHOOTERS, but gun CARRIERS. - Walt Sherrill

Please... Where is the scientific data to back this myth up, other than what a second cousin to the third wife's father-n-law said at a 4th of July party at the lake in 1994.

I've been an LEO for 37 years and more officers than not, whom I've worked with are pretty much gun enthusiast, as well as supporters of the 2nd Amendment. They are pretty much a cross section of the community at the low end of the spectrum with most weighing in heavily on the conservative pro-gun side.
 
I am retired LEO. I was taught to empty magazines every month to release the tension, and that it was unnecessary to keep them unloaded for any length of time; the instruction was to take the rounds out and put them right back in, once per month. I've always done that. I personally have never heard of a magazine going bad due to loss of spring strength.
 
The whole issue about leaving spring piston air guns cocked is a red herring. It damages the seals, not the spring.
Leaving an airgun cocked has no effect at all (either theoretically or practically speaking) on the seals. The issue is the metal spring which is why gas-piston airguns (which use the same seals but gas springs instead of metal springs) are often touted as superior to metal spring piston airguns for hunting because they can be left cocked for long intervals with no ill effect.

http://www.crosman.com/discover/airguns/types-of-airguns

NITRO PISTON
A recent innovation introduced by Crosman is the Nitro Piston® power plant in which cocking the rifle moves a piston to the rear, but instead of compressing a spring, a gas (nitrogen) in a cylinder is compressed... the option to leave the rifle cocked for extended periods which might cause weakening of a spring.​

http://www.airgundepot.com/remington-nitro-piston-air-rifle-sale.html

"These airguns can be cocked for long periods of time without degrading or losing velocity, like steel springs."​

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Umarex_Octane_Air_Rifle_Combo_Gas_Piston/3098

"While gas-pistons (also known as gas springs and gas rams) were originally touted as beneficial for airgun hunting since you can leave your gun cocked without fatiguing a metal spring..."

http://www.americanairgunhunter.com/nitro.html

Enter the Gas Spring Piston airgun; the technology has been around for a while now, but only recently is it being offered in a standard production gun. This technology allows the coiled steel mainspring to be replaced with a sealed piston containing a volume of Nitrogen which is further compressed when the gun is cocked, in effect creating a “gas spring”. The gas spring does not provide an increase in the power output when compared to a traditional mainspring, in fact it may decrease a little depending how the gun is set up. But it addressed two of the more serious issues; substantially reducing the felt bidirectional recoil and allowing the gun to be left cocked for long periods of time without damaging the gun.​
 
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Jlr2267 said:
I don't think it's necessary to download, and if does anything at all, it would possibly shorten the life. If I've already fully loaded the magazine, downloading 2 rounds does not reduce any damage because there is no further damage occurring when the spring is sitting there loaded. By downloading it, you are actually adding to the fatigue damage (albeit an infinitesimally small amount, most likely).

...Unless that fully loaded mag has compressed the springs beyond the spring's elastic limit, then downloading a round or two will slow the decay/damage process in the same way that rotating mags slows the process. If the spring isn't pushed THAT far, then Wolff's guideline may be an unnecessary step. And if downloading unnecessarily adds only an infinitesimally small amount of fatigue damage, its clearly a harmless guideline.

My reading on this topic suggests that as a coil spring reaches it's elastic limit, the longer it remains in that state, the more damage is done. With coil springs the degradation seems to be a slow process because coil springs tend to spread the work over more material than some other types of springs. As damaged material loses it's ability to work, the work it would have performed is then done by the remaining material. Then some of that remaining material is also pushed to or beyond it's elastic limit, and more material is degraded. It gets worse, but it does so relatively slowly.

I think that explains why most magazine and recoil springs seem to soften rather than break -- it's a gradual process done in little increments. In handguns, we throw out weakened coil springs BECAUSE THEY NO LONGER WORK, and do so long before they ever get to the point where they could break -- their very nature typically prevents breakage.

If you have a mag that pushes its springs to their elastic limit, downloading the mag a round or two will DELAY the inevitable deterioration. The springs don't heal, but they aren't compressed as much and drop away from the limit. That results in a real-world lengthening of spring life. But -- the minute the downloaded rounds are put back in the mag, the slow deterioration resumes...

In the case of the Rohrbaugh R9 recoil spring I mentioned earlier, which seems to be a "sacrificial" spring, leaving the slide locked open for long periods might accelerate the deterioration of that spring as (or more) quickly as cycling the spring -- which kills it pretty quickly.
 
PRM said:
Please... Where is the scientific data to back this myth up, other than what a second cousin to the third wife's father-n-law said at a 4th of July party at the lake in 1994.

I've been an LEO for 37 years and more officers than not, whom I've worked with are pretty much gun enthusiast, as well as supporters of the 2nd Amendment. They are pretty much a cross section of the community at the low end of the spectrum with most weighing in heavily on the conservative pro-gun side.

I got my scientific data the same place you got your data.

I have observed friends and family members who are LEO, watched for other LEOs at nearby ranges, and met a few of who were participants in the various gun games. Even according to them, they feel they are the exceptions in their departments. LEOs participate on these forums, and I've bought and sold weapons from/to them, but they seem to be a very small part of the whole. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not sure that makes you RIGHT.

That said, one of the best shooters I know was a deputy sheriff for many years -- until he screwed up a knee on the job -- and a couple of his work buddies shot with us from time to time. That was about it.

My son was SWAT for a local PD, and is now a State Trooper. A few of his friends and a few of his coworkers are shooters, but I think I knew far more shooters than he does. (I suspect I shoot more than he does, too.) His fiance is a deputy sheriff and she shoots a couple of times a year -- when she qualifies.

How many in your organization do differently?

Being pro-gun isn't the same as being a gun enthusiast.
 
.Unless that fully loaded mag has compressed the springs beyond the spring's elastic limit, then downloading a round or two will slow the decay/damage process in the same way that rotating mags slows the process.

What decay/damage process are you referring to? What are you suggesting happens while a spring sits in a compressed state? Let's say you load your mag to 1/2 capacity and put it in the safe...what happens now?
 
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It absolutely has to do with the amount of time. I'm not sure why you would thing otherwise.
Nice links.

From the first one.
One physical phenomenon with metals is that at stress below the yield strength of the material a very slow plastic deformation take place. In the spring branch this is called creep when a spring under constant load loose length and it is called relaxation when a spring under constant compression lose load. How much creep/relaxation is depends on the temperature, the stress in the metal, the metals yield strength and the time. Increased temperature, stress and time also increase the creep/relaxation​

From the fifth one.

Most springs are subject to some amount of relaxation during their life span even at room temperature. The amount of spring relaxation is a function of
•the spring material
•the stress the spring is exposed to
•the temperature
the amount of time the spring is exposed to the higher stresses and temperatures.
...
This relaxation is usually less than 1 or 2% at room temperature, but can be much more when the spring is exposed to higher stresses...
...
A spring held at a certain stress will actually relax more in a given time than a spring cycled between that stress and a lower stress. The reason is that it spends more time at the high stress.​
 
Time absolutely does have an affect. I'm not sure why you would thing otherwise

You should actually read the linked articles before posting them.

Only one of them suggests a time dependence at room temperature, and that mention is described as creep. Creep does not occur in any appreciable amount at room temperature, so that suggestion is simply misguided.

If you don't know why I think otherwise, you didn't read this thread either...the entire discussion is about mag springs *at room temperature*
 
Nice links.

From the first one.
One physical phenomenon with metals is that at stress below the yield strength of the material a very slow plastic deformation take place. In the spring branch this is called creep when a spring under constant load loose length and it is called relaxation when a spring under constant compression lose load. How much creep/relaxation is depends on the temperature, the stress in the metal, the metals yield strength and the time. Increased temperature, stress and time also increase the creep/relaxation​

From the fifth one.

Most springs are subject to some amount of relaxation during their life span even at room temperature. The amount of spring relaxation is a function of
•the spring material
•the stress the spring is exposed to
•the temperature
the amount of time the spring is exposed to the higher stresses and temperatures.
...
This relaxation is usually less than 1 or 2% at room temperature, but can be much more when the spring is exposed to higher stresses...
...
A spring held at a certain stress will actually relax more in a given time than a spring cycled between that stress and a lower stress. The reason is that it spends more time at the high stress.​
The 1st link refers to creep, which does not occur in mag springs at room temp.

The 5th link refers to relaxation as a function of "higher stresses AND temperature"...another reference to creep.

Please read about creep in metals if you want to understand why it is not significant at room temperature
 
Jlr2267 said:
What decay/damage process are you referring to? What are you suggesting happens while a spring sits in a compressed state? Let's say you load your mag to 1/2 capacity and put it in the safe...what happens now?

Forgive my underlining, above. I'm referring to the damage that occurs when springs are stressed at or beyond their elastic limit. A spring in a mag that has been loaded to 1/2 capacity would arguably not be affected -- or, to use your term -- affected only infinitesimally.

But a spring in a mag that is FULLY LOADED and uses a spring that is pushed past it's elastic limit will apparently degrade more quickly -- and the longer it's left in that stressed state, the more it will degrade. But it's apparently still a very slow process. Quality springs that aren't pushed to that limit will likely have a long and useful life -- even when the mags are fully loaded. (Springs don't heal, don't get stronger by being left unused, etc. Non-use simply delays the inevitable that comes with use and stress. And stretching springs doesn't restore their lost function -- as has been argued by one participant here, who used to buy and resell mags, after stretching the springs.)

My comments in this discussion, from the very first, were focused on mag springs and recoil springs that are pushed to their limits or beyond because of design objectives.

In some cases, it appears only a certain level of necessary function can be achieved through what I might I the "sacrificial" use of the spring. The recoil spring in the Rohrbaugh R9 seems to be such a spring. Recoil springs for very compact .45s also have a much shorter recommended service life than their full-size counterparts. Other designs that may fall into that category include some of the ultra-hi-cap mag designs. Some springs may now be considered "renewable resources."

In designing the Rohrbaugh R9, that firm apparently traded spring life for easier use. Making the gun slightly larger or the slide slightly heavier wasn't an option -- because then the gun wouldn't meet its design objectives. Using a longer-lived spring that still fit the space available probably would have made it almost impossible to rack by hand. (If I remember correctly, when first introduced the recommended service life for the R9 recoil spring was several hundred cycles greater than it is now; they later lowered the recommended service life, but kept the same spring.)

SIG apparently faced a similar choice when they were trying to upgrade their weapons to handle the .40 and .357 SIG round. When they evaluated the P228, they found that a stronger recoil spring was needed, but that made racking the slide very difficult. I can only guess that because there were so many P228s in the field (for military and LEO contracts) they chose to take a different path. SIG then upgraded the similar P229 with a heavier slide and more robust locking block, but kept the springs relatively the same. The upgraded P229, as I understand it, was the first pistol to handle the 357 SIG round. They kept a 9mm version of the gun which shares the same slide, but not the revised locking block. Rohrbaugh couldn't BEEF up a gun that was designed to be very small and light.

I suspect that some gun designers face the same sort of problem when designing their mags: when they make the spring strong enough to handle a higher capacity, it can make the mag difficult to use (either in loading the mag or stripping rounds when fired). So some designers may trade off spring life for more user-friendly function or easier operation in those hi-cap mags. The same may happen with some mags designed for very small guns -- but which hold more rounds than was the case in the past.

.
 
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All I can add is that I purchased a Beretta 92S before they were adopted by the US military...early 1980's and shot it little. But it was my home defense pistol and all 3 mags were loaded and left loaded continuously.

I sold the gun in 2013 and all three mags functioned flawlessly after having been left loaded sitting in a drawer (all 15 rounds!) untouched except to oil once a year for over 20 years. The mags and springs functioned flawlessly when I sold the gun.

My Father in Law passed away in 2012 and left a few pistols to me. One of them a Colt 1903 Pocket Hammerless that had been carried 'bout the Farm and other places by 3 generations of my Wife's kin as a pocket gun. The gun had one original mag - it was built in 1918. It had been loaded in a desk drawer unfired for about 30 years before my Father in Law passed. I shot that gun with the ammunition in the mag after unloading the mag, checking the gun for slam fires and making sure the safeties worked, reoiling and reloading the mag.

All 8 rounds fired flawlessly. That's my experience with mag springs and leaving them loaded.

VooDoo
 
You should actually read the linked articles before posting them.

Only one of them suggests a time dependence at room temperature, and that mention is described as creep. Creep does not occur in any appreciable amount at room temperature, so that suggestion is simply misguided.

If you don't know why I think otherwise, you didn't read this thread either...the entire discussion is about mag springs *at room temperature*

Actually, it is you that should read the links such as JohnSKa did.

You have already back peddled from saying it doesn't matter and leave them loaded as long as you like to conceding to Walt examples of your statement being accurate.

I've provided a LOT of factual data here and on TFL with links to sources and reference material.

You have provided nothing except to say you've spent a lot of you companies money and back peddle your statement.

FYI - I come from one of those industries you mentioned earlier.

You're wrong... we learned a long time ago that springs under constant load can negatively impact their performance.

Also.... it just so happens that guns, when used, heat up past room temp which accelerates things.

If it's only a matter of cycling that wears a spring, why don't we see these questions about replacing recoil springs 20 times more often than mag spring questions?

Because theres a lot more to this issue than repeating 1\2 truths and misunderstandings.
 
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Actually, it is you that should read the links such as JohnSKa did.

You have already back peddled from saying it doesn't matter and leave them loaded as king as you like to conceding to Walt examples of your statement being false.

I've provided a LOT of factual data here and on TFL with links to sources and reference matwrial.

You have provided nothing except to say you've spent a lot of you companies money and back peddle your statement.

FYI - I come from one of those industries you mentioned earlier.

You're wrong... we learned a long time ago that springs under constant load can negatively impact their performance.

Also.... it just so happens that guns, when used, heat up past room temp which accelerates things.

If it's only a matter of cycling that wears a spring, why don't we see these questions about replacing recoil springs 20 times more often than mag spring questions?

Because theres a lot more to this issue than repeating 1\2 truths and misunderstandings.

I don't believe I have backpeddled at all. Your links refer to *creep*, which *is not a factor at room temperature*...period, or even at 2,3,400F in steel springs. You have a serious misunderstanding of the fundamentals involved, and have proven so by posting links which don't say what you think they say.

Steel magazine springs *do not creep to any significant degree at their normal service temperatures*...if you disagree, I suggest you take a basic course in engineering fundamentals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creep_(deformation)
"the effects of creep deformation generally become noticeable at approximately 30% of the melting point (as measured on a thermodynamic temperature scale such as Kelvin or Rankine) for metals"

http://www.engineersedge.com/material_science/creep.htm "At room temperature, structural materials develop the full strain they will exhibit as soon as a load is applied"

http://weldingdesign.com/consumables/understanding-creep-resistance "Creep only happens at high temperatures (around 900 degrees F and higher for stainless steels)."

http://www.nationalboard.org/Index.aspx?pageID=181 Common steel creep threshold temperatures:
"Carbon steel.......................800oF
Carbon + 1/2 Molybdenum............850oF
1-1/4 Chromium-1/2 Molybdenum......950oF
2-1 /4 Chromium-1 Molybdenum.......1000oF
Stainless steel....................1050oF"

The list is literally endless, and includes every textbook ever written on the subject...please take some time to learn about it.

And no, mag springs get nowhere near these temperatures.

For goodness sake, if you don't believe the links, or me, go ask any metallurgist on the planet that you do trust. You will get *the same answer.*
 
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Here's my relatively cheap solution. I see the above and am personally not sure....

In practice here's what I do.

I buy spare magazines for my auto's (At least the ones that have a job...) I want the extra magazines any way, so I split the Use between 4 magazines (Load 2).
 
I don't believe I have backpeddled at all. Your links refer to *creep*, which *is not a factor at room temperature*...period, or even at 2,3,400F in steel springs. You have a serious misunderstanding of the fundamentals involved, and have proven so by posting links which don't say what you think they say.

Steel magazine springs *do not creep to any significant degree at their normal service temperatures*...if you disagree, I suggest you take a basic course in engineering fundamentals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creep_(deformation)
"the effects of creep deformation generally become noticeable at approximately 30% of the melting point (as measured on a thermodynamic temperature scale such as Kelvin or Rankine) for metals"

http://www.engineersedge.com/material_science/creep.htm "At room temperature, structural materials develop the full strain they will exhibit as soon as a load is applied"

http://weldingdesign.com/consumables/understanding-creep-resistance "Creep only happens at high temperatures (around 900 degrees F and higher for stainless steels)."

http://www.nationalboard.org/Index.aspx?pageID=181 Common steel creep threshold temperatures:
"Carbon steel.......................800oF
Carbon + 1/2 Molybdenum............850oF
1-1/4 Chromium-1/2 Molybdenum......950oF
2-1 /4 Chromium-1 Molybdenum.......1000oF
Stainless steel....................1050oF"

The list is literally endless, and includes every textbook ever written on the subject...please take some time to learn about it.

And no, mag springs get nowhere near these temperatures.

For goodness sake, if you don't believe the links, or me, go ask any metallurgist on the planet that you do trust. You will get *the same answer.*

You should read past the 1st few sentences of the links you post. It contridicts a lot of what you say. Time affects creep too.
 
You should read past the 1st few sentences of the links you post. It contridicts a lot of what you say. Time affects creep too.

No kidding? "Time affects creep too"...????????

You do realize that creep *is by definition* time dependent deformation in materials, right?

Please be specific (as I was) as to what is contradicted? What is stated in any of those articles that contradicts the very simple and concise point that:

*creep in steels is not significant at the temperatures where ammunition magazines operate*

You can easily falsify the above statement by either:

1) showing that mag springs get up to 700F in service

or

2) showing that creep in steels is significant at much lower temperatures
 
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