How many 1911s can the market take?
- Thread starter bigcozy
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I'd like to see more companies make 1911s. 
I remember when Colt was the dominant 1911 producer, not that long ago either, and quality was not great and prices high...for what you got anyway.
Kimber ate them up pretty easily and became the dominant producer with quite a good gun IMO. And then, , owned the market and preceeded with series II, external extractors, questionable quality, etc, etc. Now they have been declining as Springfield grew, S&W and more and more brands come.
So, in the 1911 world anyway, it's not good to have a "dominate" producer IMO...it seems.
I remember when Colt was the dominant 1911 producer, not that long ago either, and quality was not great and prices high...for what you got anyway.
Kimber ate them up pretty easily and became the dominant producer with quite a good gun IMO. And then,
, owned the market and preceeded with series II, external extractors, questionable quality, etc, etc. Now they have been declining as Springfield grew, S&W and more and more brands come.So, in the 1911 world anyway, it's not good to have a "dominate" producer IMO...it seems.
EarlofSandwich
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I agree with 45auto. Competition in the market is a good thing. Only drives up quality and reduces prices.
I will be getting in on the 1911 market very soon myself.
I will be getting in on the 1911 market very soon myself.
larry starling
Member
I resent the fact that your are calling me childish. The mere fact that you turn to name calling and start using vulgar words in your discussions proves that you my friend are the one who needs to grow up. And FWIW I will post and reply to any message that I choose especially when it is false and full of holes as your posts seem to be. The true facts are The pistols Colt produces to day are some of the finest 1911's available. My point is if you don't like there quality control buy some one else's pistol. My experiences have been far different than yours in regard to the quality of the pistols being produced by Colt.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Hold!
Larry and matt..Take it to PM please. We may attack the opinion, but not the opiner. (Izzat a word?)
You lads are on the line. Not worth gettin' canked over.
Larry and matt..Take it to PM please. We may attack the opinion, but not the opiner. (Izzat a word?)
You lads are on the line. Not worth gettin' canked over.psychophipps
Member
Apparently it can take a few more. The newer S&W and SigArms 1911s are getting good reviews (the SigArms after a slight retooling and change in frame manufacturing) for their price point and demonstrate that the big boys of the last 15-20 years don't have a stranglehold on the market yet. In fact, I'm looking at one of the SigArms Revolutions to be my first platform for a 1911.
Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )
Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )
larry starling
Member
As far as in concerned its over and done with...
SRMohawk said:No feedback for you, BigCozy. I just wanted recognize yet again how much fun this forum can be
You see Zombies have taken over pistol production... since the 1911 is one of the oldest auto-loader designs around, the Zombies are makeing every manufacture, manufacture them and then makeing all the publications, publish good reviews on them... because everyone knows that a 1911 isn't as good as a tuper-ware Gun and every one knows that Zombies are going to attack and we'll all be holding 1911's that can't churn through a whole 7 round magazine with out a FTF/FTE... and the Zombies also know that 9mm is far supierior to .45acp so we'll all be bent over on that aspect of fending off Zombie Attacks too, but we're slideing one in on the Zombies slowly, the 1911 manufactures are now makeing several different 9mm 1911's so we may have a chance. The Zombies are flooding the market with 1911's that are unreliable, require massive gunsmithing bills and are just plain ugly designs. The next thing to watch out for is the Zombies to take over the FORD Motor Company because they're going to start makeing Model-T sedans again, so that way we won't be able to out run the Zombies in our gas guzzleing Triton V10 Pick-up trucks, when our 1911 .45acp pistols are all jammed up and broken.
But on a serious note: I've responded to a few of these "what's so good about a 1911 threads" before. Kimber maybe to blame for the upriseing of the 1911 the way I see it, they went and started makeing 1911's in the mid 90's with custom features and good looks right from the manufacture, and that caught on and inspired several other manufactures to do the same. You can pretty much set a 1911 up for any person or any purpose. From 22LR to 10mm, from a WWII recreation to an IDPA Race gun. Grandpa's arthritis can't handle 45acp anymore, get him a 9mm, that still looks and feels the same. The versatility of the 1911 allows a person to have thier CCW, set up to feel the same way as thier IDPA or thier Hunting Pistol or thier 22LR Plinker. They aren't lego's like AR-15's but they aren't too complicated to work on, as long as you go slow.
I feel naked only haveing 3 - 1911's in my gun safe right now, there was a time I was up to 4 and I've owned 7 different ones now. I shoot about 1000 rounds a month of .45acp, I think I had a stove pipe back in July or maybe it was June, no it was July... that's when I got my 12 year old SA Mil-Spec Champion and fired it for the first time, after spraying some of the rust off with WD-40 and Rem Oil, it still had the 12 year old originial Recoil Spring, since the recoil spring replacement It's been good, I think I'll keep it even though it had that one FTE.
Sry0fcr
Member
I'm just waiting for someone to build a polymer frame, hi-cap, striker fired "1911" sans the grip safety. Wilson and Kimber are halfway there...
Bergeron
Member
In the spirit of what you said, Sry0fcr, I see the elimination of the grip saftey as the next "thing" to hit 1911s. The Series 80, Shwartz Kimbers, and the rest seem to be focusing on doing the job that the grip safety was designed for. In addition to new 1911 buyers who seem to find such devices as acceptable on their 1911s as other designs, old-time 1911 afficiandos like Novak and Cooper are not fans of the grip safety.
I'm not saying that I think all the new ones will be without a grip safety, but I think a significant portion will. This is all to the good, it'll give us more choices.
I'm not saying that I think all the new ones will be without a grip safety, but I think a significant portion will. This is all to the good, it'll give us more choices.
All the FP safeties such as the series 80 and the Kimber/S&W style do "more" than the grip safety. The series 80 does eveything, safety wise, that a "modern gun" does. Meaning, it prevents any AD's or "firings" unless you pull the trigger.
A series 80 1911 without a grip safety would be an instant "seller" IMHO, if done properly. Meaning the "grip safety" would still be the access panel, if you will, to disassemble the "standard" 1911 parts. It just has to made(modified) to fit snug into the mainspring housing so it doesn't move...no "arm" to block the trigger bow, etc. This isn't "rocket science".
I think the 1911 manufacturers, most of them are "dumber than a stump", still believe most 1911 buyers are "traditionalists" and wouldn't stand for it.
Perhaps a "percentage" of the buyers, but I'd bet a lot of 1911 buyers now actually come from other "styles" of handguns and don't have preconceived notions of a 1911. And, many of us long time 1911 users know it doesn't perform any function(series 70) other than possibly preventing you from firing it, letting in dirt and dust, creating sharp edges because of the often poorly fit production 1911's.... would gladly buy one without!
Ask me how I really feel.
A series 80 1911 without a grip safety would be an instant "seller" IMHO, if done properly. Meaning the "grip safety" would still be the access panel, if you will, to disassemble the "standard" 1911 parts. It just has to made(modified) to fit snug into the mainspring housing so it doesn't move...no "arm" to block the trigger bow, etc. This isn't "rocket science".
I think the 1911 manufacturers, most of them are "dumber than a stump", still believe most 1911 buyers are "traditionalists" and wouldn't stand for it.
Perhaps a "percentage" of the buyers, but I'd bet a lot of 1911 buyers now actually come from other "styles" of handguns and don't have preconceived notions of a 1911. And, many of us long time 1911 users know it doesn't perform any function(series 70) other than possibly preventing you from firing it, letting in dirt and dust, creating sharp edges because of the often poorly fit production 1911's.... would gladly buy one without!
Ask me how I really feel.
Phil DeGraves
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With Colt, Kimber, S&W, SIG, Springfield, CZ/Dan Wesson, Para Ordnance, Taurus, Norinco, Star, LLama et al building 1911s, I guess that proves that Colonel Cooper was right all along. The 1911 IS the best pistol and all the other gun companies have realized it as well.
Phil DeGraves
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To weigh in on the argument, I have 4 Colt's, 3 Kimbers and 1 Springfield. I will not buy another Springfield. It is a tremendous shooter so I won't get rid of it, but I have had to send it back to the factory twice for two different repairs. A friend of mine with the exact same model also sent his back twice for two different repairs than mine. Two other friends of mine have had problems with theirs. Springfield has an excellent service dept. but I shouldn't have to find that out for the money I paid for my Springfield. I have twenty or more magazines for my 1911s, Colt's, Kimbers, Springfields. The Springfields break. The Colt's and Kimbers don't. In my opinion, Springfields have LOUSY quality control. Give me a Colt any time.
Boarhunter
Member
Well, guys, I only have 5 1911s (1 Colt original series 70, two Springfields, and two Kimbers...two are .45 and three are 9mm) and I do not see any end in sight to my purchases. In fact, I currently have one of Springfield's EMP (Enhanced Micro Pistol, I think) in 9mm on order, and am counting the days until it gets here.
My guess is that we will see a new wave of 1911s from the major manufacturers coming down the pike, specially sized to take the shorter, more efficient cartridges. And I am all for it.
I just can't get enough of them.
And the more major manufacturers who get into the competition, the better the market for the buyer.
Boarhunter
My guess is that we will see a new wave of 1911s from the major manufacturers coming down the pike, specially sized to take the shorter, more efficient cartridges. And I am all for it.
I just can't get enough of them.
And the more major manufacturers who get into the competition, the better the market for the buyer.
Boarhunter
RNB65
Member
It's pretty cheap for gun makers to make 1911's. No big R&D costs -- Mr. Browning took care of that a century ago. No big marketing costs -- a century of US Gov service and two world wars took care of that. No patent infringement suits to worry about. If you're a company like SIG and you already have the distribution channels in place, all you need to spend is the cost of some machine tools and a few good employees to assemble them and you're all ready to go.
TimboKhan
Member
I have lone railed against the growing tide of $1000.00 plus "custom" 1911's. For me, I just can't see spending that much money on a gun, and I certainly don't like it when the gun press calls prices like that "reasonable". As a result, my interest in owning a 1911 dropped to about 0. It was never about the gun, it was about the ridiculous pricing. Taurus comes along and offers a gun witih all the popular "custom" features for under $500.00. I just put one on layaway. Only time will tell if I will be pleased with my purchase (although initial response on this, and other gun forums, has been pretty positive), but I will say that I think the market can bear more guns at that price point. I just don't understand how the market can bear more guns at the higher points. The guys that can afford them are probably going to either go with the established manufacturers (Kimber, Wilson, Baer and even S&W), or are just going to spend the money to have a truly custom gun built. Those large manufacturers are able to produce variations on a theme that will satisfy the publics desire for "new" guns for a fairly low cost to them (and a ever increasing cost to the consumer), and as a result, can flood the market with new "custom" guns that can, and will, choke out offerings from newer, smaller companies like Nighthawk. So, to sum up my very long answer to your very short question, I do not think that new companies are going to be able to sustain themselves in the 1911 market unless they are able to produce a competitive gun at a substantially lower price.
nitesite
Member
I have owned 1911s off and on for 25 years. I've had really good service and reliability from each of them.
But I've got to agree with the OP at least from this one observation: How the heck can you have a Springfield Armory GI .45 in a micro-compact version??????????????
I mean, shouldn't we keep everything called GI with pseudo-authentic U.S. grip panels a 5" pistol?
The different configurations out there are just mind boggling.
But I've got to agree with the OP at least from this one observation: How the heck can you have a Springfield Armory GI .45 in a micro-compact version??????????????
I mean, shouldn't we keep everything called GI with pseudo-authentic U.S. grip panels a 5" pistol?
The different configurations out there are just mind boggling.
Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
I really don't have an answer to the question 'bout 1911's; but rather a comment.
I feel like I have purchased my fair share; and proly' will buy
many more, as they have become my favorites once again~!
I feel like I have purchased my fair share; and proly' will buy
many more, as they have become my favorites once again~!
well.. if the makers keep working on good, accurate, reliable yet cheap 1911's , chances are we will keep buying them. Like any good consumer, firearm owners love a good value. (bang for the buck is much more literal here....)
If not, new firearm owners will join the scene buying them.
You could also argue that the various refinements (optimal polymer design, double stack frames, etc) keep adding depth and variety to the choices.
If not, new firearm owners will join the scene buying them.
You could also argue that the various refinements (optimal polymer design, double stack frames, etc) keep adding depth and variety to the choices.
Not to sway this thread, but eliminateing the Grip Safety should be left for Race Guns or Competition Guns ONLY. I don't want to be next to a beginner or the average guy, or even myself with a 1911 with out a grip safety.
Carrying a Locked/Cocked 1911 isn't to my likeing, although I do it from time to time. The practice of Pinning or Tapeing down the grip safety is good for range guns, but alot of us lower our 1911 triggers down to 4lbs or less, can't imagine carrying a single action anything with the short trigger pull of the 1911 and only relying on the thumb safety. The Fireing Pin Blocks are only there to stop the gun from going off if dropped, that's thier main function, to only fire when the trigger is pulled. A decent gunsmith can make the grip safety short and very sensitive or not as strange to use, for very little money, it is just some stone work, maybe a fine file at the most
Carrying a Locked/Cocked 1911 isn't to my likeing, although I do it from time to time. The practice of Pinning or Tapeing down the grip safety is good for range guns, but alot of us lower our 1911 triggers down to 4lbs or less, can't imagine carrying a single action anything with the short trigger pull of the 1911 and only relying on the thumb safety. The Fireing Pin Blocks are only there to stop the gun from going off if dropped, that's thier main function, to only fire when the trigger is pulled. A decent gunsmith can make the grip safety short and very sensitive or not as strange to use, for very little money, it is just some stone work, maybe a fine file at the most
Black Majik
Member
Lets put it this way. As long as companies keep making 1911s, people will continue buying them. And as long as people keep buying different 1911s (the market is HUGE), gun companies will continue to produce them in every way possible.
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