Sniper X
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I just don't get it. I have 11 1911's and none give me a single problem.....ever.
What's With 1911s?
- Thread starter Confederate
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ForumSurfer
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According to google and popular internet "experience" my gen4 g17 was a jamomatic. That wasn't the case. Google searches reveal tons of people who will support the "1911's are more problematic" theory. Some people have no experience, others have had one poor 1911 and dismissed all others as being equally problematic.
I disagree, still. Particular 1911 models can be problematic. Other 1911 models are dead bang reliable. Lumping all 1911's together is as generic is lobbing all striker fired pistols together. You can get junk, or you can get quality. The difference with Glock is you get one manufacturer making every piece exactly the same, so of course there will be less failures. If only one company made 1911's with no customizations, only different sizes and calibers then they would all be reliable. The fact is there are junk 1911's out there that give all 1911's a bad rep.
Couldn't agree more. I'm happy to own both.
Very interesting Billy Shears. I experienced the opposite.
My department issued us S&W 4566's. We had no issues. Our armorer was like the Maytag repair man. Nothing to do. These were not TSW models just standard 4566's.
Detectives had 4516's IIRC. There were a few issues with those not feeding properly.....IIRC they went to different mags and the issue was fixed. S&W's rep was very responsive to any problems we had.
We changed our recoil springs regularly, and turned in our mags once a year and got fresh ones.
Mine was a tack driver, and I wish I'd purchased it when I retired.
Just goes to show you that there are no absolutes I guess.
I like the 3rd generation 45's, but I wouldn't give a nickel for any semi auto S&W makes today. TJ
My department issued us S&W 4566's. We had no issues. Our armorer was like the Maytag repair man. Nothing to do. These were not TSW models just standard 4566's.
Detectives had 4516's IIRC. There were a few issues with those not feeding properly.....IIRC they went to different mags and the issue was fixed. S&W's rep was very responsive to any problems we had.
We changed our recoil springs regularly, and turned in our mags once a year and got fresh ones.
Mine was a tack driver, and I wish I'd purchased it when I retired.
Just goes to show you that there are no absolutes I guess.
I like the 3rd generation 45's, but I wouldn't give a nickel for any semi auto S&W makes today. TJ
The Lone Haranguer
Member
I want to like them but have yet to get a good one.
My Glock, "classic" SIGs (not their 1911s) and even a CZ will shoot all day. They don't quite match the 1911's speed into action and accuracy, trigger action (which accounts for much of the accuracy) or slenderness and flatness, however. But I will take reliability every time.
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ScratchnDent
Member
I love mine. 7-8,000 flawless rounds now.
I just sold my modern wonder double stack polymer .45, because it was less accurate and less comfortable to carry due to the width.
I just sold my modern wonder double stack polymer .45, because it was less accurate and less comfortable to carry due to the width.
NMGonzo
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Can't we all get along?
Culwathion
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NMGonzo for the win.
Texasred
Member
I think the original poster is right, we should all just buy new guns because the new ones are so much closer to perfection. While we are at it, we should all go buy brand new Corvettes and dump our wives for millionaire Italian supermodels.
gc70
Member
I have owned guns of all types from the major manufacturers over the last few decades. Some guns came and went, but I kept the ones that were accurate, reliable, and easy to shoot. So I have some 1911s mixed in with DA/SA guns and polymer guns. Heck, I even have some SAA revolvers. With the exception of a couple of dedicated carry guns and a .22, all of my handguns fulfill multiple roles from fun range activities to serious self defense.
IMHO, extolling the virtues of a particular gun is fine because everyone has personal preferences, but bashing a particular gun is often a reflection of the more distasteful side of human nature.
IMHO, extolling the virtues of a particular gun is fine because everyone has personal preferences, but bashing a particular gun is often a reflection of the more distasteful side of human nature.
In the experience of a lot of people, the Colt 1911 does meet the reliability standards of the day, however, I collected my first Colt 1911 (Series 70 reissue) only yesterday and have yet to shoot it so can't speak from personal experience. But I didn't buy it for reliability -- if it does prove reliable that will be a bonus -- I bought it for its beauty and history. When I look at and handle my new purchase, I get a lump in my throat.
NMGonzo
Member
duns ... i was looking at a pic on bud's and it looks wonderful!
rswartsell
Member
Most of the "innovations" of the last 40 years in handgun engineering have been cost reduction by nature, and marketed to us as product improvement. It is simply more expensive to use precision machining of billet steel rather than injection molding. Labor prices have skyrocketed.
The large number of 1911 producers all try to cut a corner here or there for cost control and do not back off the corner cutting until AFTER they hurt themselves with reliability issues. If you end up with a faithfully executed 1911 you have a superb combat pistol (which was also able to dominate the precision Bullseye target world with relatively minor modification).
The major "advances" since?
Double Action- Meh, maybe with a decent DA trigger pull, haven't seen one yet.
Striker Fired- Solution in search of a problem IMHO
High Capacity- See above.
Polymer Components-
You have been told by handgun producers what to want and you are jumping to the tune admirably.
The large number of 1911 producers all try to cut a corner here or there for cost control and do not back off the corner cutting until AFTER they hurt themselves with reliability issues. If you end up with a faithfully executed 1911 you have a superb combat pistol (which was also able to dominate the precision Bullseye target world with relatively minor modification).
The major "advances" since?
Double Action- Meh, maybe with a decent DA trigger pull, haven't seen one yet.
Striker Fired- Solution in search of a problem IMHO
High Capacity- See above.
Polymer Components-
You have been told by handgun producers what to want and you are jumping to the tune admirably.
Vern Humphrey
Member
The problem with the M1911 is its age -- which means the patents have all expired -- and it's popularity. The result of those two factors means everyone and his dog have manufactured M1911s. And the dog wasn't big on quality control.
A third point was, as others have pointed out, the M1911 was designed to fire ball. My M1927 Argentine (made on Colt machinery under Colt supervision in the 1930s) shoots everything I've ever fed it -- including hollow points and 185-grain wadcutters. But some old M1911s did need "tweaking" to reliably feed such ammunition.
The result is the legend grew that "M1911s need tweaking to be reliable." When people came to accept that, manufacturers followed suit by producing guns that did need tweaking.
But the fact is the M1911, made right the first time is as reliable as any "modern" automatic.
A third point was, as others have pointed out, the M1911 was designed to fire ball. My M1927 Argentine (made on Colt machinery under Colt supervision in the 1930s) shoots everything I've ever fed it -- including hollow points and 185-grain wadcutters. But some old M1911s did need "tweaking" to reliably feed such ammunition.
The result is the legend grew that "M1911s need tweaking to be reliable." When people came to accept that, manufacturers followed suit by producing guns that did need tweaking.
But the fact is the M1911, made right the first time is as reliable as any "modern" automatic.
harmon rabb
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yeah. that's truly a solution in search of a problem. ummm...
Vern Humphrey
Member
Years ago, I had a passion to get a ParaOrd P14. With one up the spout, that would give me 15 rounds. With a spare magazine, I'd have 29 rounds.
Then I did the math -- with my standard M1911 and an 8 round magazine, I'd have 9 rounds. And a double carrier with two 10-round magazines would give me . . . 29 rounds!!
Then I did the math -- with my standard M1911 and an 8 round magazine, I'd have 9 rounds. And a double carrier with two 10-round magazines would give me . . . 29 rounds!!
In fact the Series 70 reissue I bought this week was purchased from Buds (thought it was a great price). I see Buds is now out of stock on them for the time being. Glad I snapped mine up when I did.
xXxplosive
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It's the best combat platform ever developed.............
mharveyww1
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I'm A Convert!
I came late to the 1911 party!
My Sig P-220 Stainless Elite is work of art. Beautiful to look at, totally reliable and fiendishly accurate. Why would I want a 1911?
Then, I received an old COLT'S Officers-model 1911 as a gift.
It was love at first shot!
Like so many of the real-life romances I've experienced, I've never been able to adequately express just WHY, or WHAT IT IS that captivated me so.
Words just don't work.
Now, I have FOUR 1911's! The original WWII surplus Officers has been joined by a Commander. I couldn't resist what Springfield did with the 9mm EMP.
YES, it's an honest-to-god (if not John Browning) 1911 and it is simply exquisite in every way. Most recently I've added a Springfield Loaded full-size 1911 in Black and Stainless Steel with Crimson Trace laser grips.
It's frighteningly deadly. Eight 230 gr. JHP's make one big hole at 50 feet.
I must also mention that I acquired ONE 1911 that had gone to the dark side. It was a Springfield V 10 (ported barrel) UltraCompact. Very soft shooting, very accurate but also very sensitive to the type of ammunition it would use. At least two or three FTE or FTF in every magazine....like clockwork.
New rod and recoil spring, Wilson Combat Mags and a new extractor and the failure rate went down to 1 per magazine. I'm not a big fan of Russian Roulette and the V-10 is gone.
The others are my carry guns of choice. The Sig P-220 has become a closet queen. Still respected and revered, but seldom taken out.
Mike
I came late to the 1911 party!
My Sig P-220 Stainless Elite is work of art. Beautiful to look at, totally reliable and fiendishly accurate. Why would I want a 1911?
Then, I received an old COLT'S Officers-model 1911 as a gift.
It was love at first shot!
Like so many of the real-life romances I've experienced, I've never been able to adequately express just WHY, or WHAT IT IS that captivated me so.
Words just don't work.
Now, I have FOUR 1911's! The original WWII surplus Officers has been joined by a Commander. I couldn't resist what Springfield did with the 9mm EMP.
YES, it's an honest-to-god (if not John Browning) 1911 and it is simply exquisite in every way. Most recently I've added a Springfield Loaded full-size 1911 in Black and Stainless Steel with Crimson Trace laser grips.
It's frighteningly deadly. Eight 230 gr. JHP's make one big hole at 50 feet.
I must also mention that I acquired ONE 1911 that had gone to the dark side. It was a Springfield V 10 (ported barrel) UltraCompact. Very soft shooting, very accurate but also very sensitive to the type of ammunition it would use. At least two or three FTE or FTF in every magazine....like clockwork.
New rod and recoil spring, Wilson Combat Mags and a new extractor and the failure rate went down to 1 per magazine. I'm not a big fan of Russian Roulette and the V-10 is gone.
The others are my carry guns of choice. The Sig P-220 has become a closet queen. Still respected and revered, but seldom taken out.
Mike
harmon rabb
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Really? Even though the 1911 gives up 5-6 rounds to the polymer guns?
Quoting Confederate: "The Colt 1911 was one of the best designs of its day, but its disheartening that the design in our day has lagged so far behind. To spend close to a grand on a gun and have it not meet the reliability standards of the day is a shame."
After the 12th word in the quote, I disagree. The 1911 was indeed one of the best designs of its day, and reliability was one of its strong points, back in the day. A 1911 is still reliable today, if built to the same standard as in 1911, and used with the correct ammunition profile.
My Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special, with its minor frame mods that make Baers fit my hands better than a standard 1911, has been boringly reliable from round one. I owned two Colt Series 80 Government Models that were reliable; one was 100% reliable from round one, and the other had a few minor failures to feed in the first 200 rounds, but after that, was boringly reliable. (This is why 500 rounds is recommended for breaking-in a 1911.)
Let's keep in mind that a 1911 was designed as a military pistol, in the days when roundnosed FMJ ammo was standard for all autoloaders, not just military weapons. Even so, my three examples have fed various JHPs just fine.
I actually tend to use modern DA handguns for most purposes these days, but it is not because they are more reliable than the 1911. If I had to go into a gunbattle, I would be as well-served by my Baer as any other pistol I own. I won't go into a gunbattle without a spare magazines, so in-gun capacity is not an overriding issue. Nobody survives a fight by standing in the open and firing to slide-lock.
After the 12th word in the quote, I disagree. The 1911 was indeed one of the best designs of its day, and reliability was one of its strong points, back in the day. A 1911 is still reliable today, if built to the same standard as in 1911, and used with the correct ammunition profile.
My Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special, with its minor frame mods that make Baers fit my hands better than a standard 1911, has been boringly reliable from round one. I owned two Colt Series 80 Government Models that were reliable; one was 100% reliable from round one, and the other had a few minor failures to feed in the first 200 rounds, but after that, was boringly reliable. (This is why 500 rounds is recommended for breaking-in a 1911.)
Let's keep in mind that a 1911 was designed as a military pistol, in the days when roundnosed FMJ ammo was standard for all autoloaders, not just military weapons. Even so, my three examples have fed various JHPs just fine.
I actually tend to use modern DA handguns for most purposes these days, but it is not because they are more reliable than the 1911. If I had to go into a gunbattle, I would be as well-served by my Baer as any other pistol I own. I won't go into a gunbattle without a spare magazines, so in-gun capacity is not an overriding issue. Nobody survives a fight by standing in the open and firing to slide-lock.
Billy Shears
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Even so.
The overwhelming majority of gunfights are over with fewer than the 1911's eight rounds expended. Generations of shooters got by just fine with revolvers having only six shots and a much, much slower reload. Do you think these six shooters would have remained the primary sidearm of law enforcement officers all the way up to the 1980s if that limited capacity were a decisive disadvantage? When confronted by the autoloader's advantage in capacity, revolver shooters were fond out pointing out that if you couldn't neutralize the threat with six rounds, more weren't likely to help you out any better, and there is some validity to that point of view.
If you do need more ammo, that's what you carry spare mags for. And when one must reload, the 1911, with its ergonomic controls, can be reloaded as fast as any pistol out there.
Double-stack guns "prove" their "superiority" in open-class competitions and in training schools, by reducing the frequency of reloading. I am not against double-stack guns, but also do not see single-stack guns or even revolvers as liabilities in the real world.
A practical advantage of double-stacks is space efficiency on my duty belt. My equipment list has grown, but my waist size has not, in 26+ years. Two spare P229 magazines hold twice as much ammo as two speedloaders, and fit in the same space as two speedloaders. I also had a belt slide that held six rounds in loops, for partial reloads; no more need for those loops.
The 1911s and its mags, a prior duty combo for me, after the sixguns, have a belt-space advantage over the sixgun, too, but less so than my present P229 and its mags. Of course, there is no free lunch; this ammo gets heavy. For a while, I toted just one P229 magazine on my duty belt, which gave me the same number of available rounds as I had in my sixgun, two speedloaders, and cartridge loops.
To put things in perspective, on September 12, 2001, a very significant date, which I hope means something to y'all, when I was posted as extra security outside the Israeli consulate, I was OK with the 1911 and two spare mags on my belt; perhaps it was thee spare mags that day. I was MUCH more concerned at having only buckshot in my shotgun, and no rifle available.
A practical advantage of double-stacks is space efficiency on my duty belt. My equipment list has grown, but my waist size has not, in 26+ years. Two spare P229 magazines hold twice as much ammo as two speedloaders, and fit in the same space as two speedloaders. I also had a belt slide that held six rounds in loops, for partial reloads; no more need for those loops.
The 1911s and its mags, a prior duty combo for me, after the sixguns, have a belt-space advantage over the sixgun, too, but less so than my present P229 and its mags. Of course, there is no free lunch; this ammo gets heavy. For a while, I toted just one P229 magazine on my duty belt, which gave me the same number of available rounds as I had in my sixgun, two speedloaders, and cartridge loops.
To put things in perspective, on September 12, 2001, a very significant date, which I hope means something to y'all, when I was posted as extra security outside the Israeli consulate, I was OK with the 1911 and two spare mags on my belt; perhaps it was thee spare mags that day. I was MUCH more concerned at having only buckshot in my shotgun, and no rifle available.
parsimonious_instead
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I'm not an experienced handgun shooter. During some recent firearm training I took up in Vermont, I shot 500+ rounds through a 1911 I "borrowed" from the instructor.
I'm glad I did - the other folks in the class were really cool about allowing me to try their guns out. I didn't particularly care for the feel of their Sigs and Glocks. Not saying they're bad weapons, just that there's something about the sight axis, ergonomics and overall feel of the 1911 that simply agrees with me.
I'm glad I did - the other folks in the class were really cool about allowing me to try their guns out. I didn't particularly care for the feel of their Sigs and Glocks. Not saying they're bad weapons, just that there's something about the sight axis, ergonomics and overall feel of the 1911 that simply agrees with me.
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