How many times have you heard a "gun jock" tell someone looking for a new gun...

[Tirod]

I am reminded that a young man in my junior year of high school was killed while hunting with a .22. The gun was inadvertently dropped and the bullet struck him in the stomach.

Most game conservation agents report that the .22 is the most popular caliber used in poaching. A single shot .22 is usually inexpensive and easily left in the woods to use or discard when needed. The prize rack more than pays for the gun. The average poacher goes for a head shot, and usually lives in the rural area, which is why he knows the animal is there.

Having lived quite a while around jocks in general, I'll hold my own counsel about the .22. My life experience is that they don't handle testosterone well and are usually acting out their impulses in a less than self disciplined or civilized manner. You could just ask them, but they usually make themselves known quickly. They go out of their way to establish who is in control of a conversation - intelligent thought is usually not part of their agenda.

Not hard to pick out there posts or what forums they hang out in. Here it's kept to a tolerable level. Even I've been pinged, so, it's a level playing field.

 

[MattShlock]

I've never heard anyone actually say anything as "assinine" as a .22 will only make it's target mad. I only see such nonsense on the internet. But it is also "dumbassery" to imply it is a rational self defense caliber.

While it is better than nothing I more often see people elevate it because they are inexperienced kids, it and they are cheap, and they "want it to be true" so make up and parrot internet nonsense such as "it is the best survival round."

 

[jj1962hemi]

My take on the OP is that the gun store clerk basically, in addition to being a blowhard, may have either embarrassed the customer, or sent the message that we (gun folks) are a bunch of Barney-Fife-armchair-commandos, or both. I recall being embarrassed as a 21-year old guy in my LGS. I had a strong interest and simply took my business elsewhere. Many gun noobs will just get turned off. I'm a proponent of a pleasant explanation, with respect (particularly for women, of whom we need more in the hobby/lifestyle), and friendly low-pressure knowledge. I view my gun-related conversations with people I don't know as opportunities to represent our community and our issues to strangers in a positive manner.

 

[Potatohead]

I saw a story where a .22 saved a girl from an attacking bear.

She and her boyfriend were hiking in the woods when an angry black bear charged and attacked them.
She shot her boyfriend in the knee and ran.
Her boyfriend wasn't able to run very fast and the bear got him and killed him.
That little .22 saved her life.

Bhoffman, LOL
You seem to be a funny dude. Bears and Bourbon Oh My! PH

 

[Potatohead]

On these forensic (not the fiction ones) tv shows Im always watching, it surprises me the number of murders committed with a .22.

I guess it can kill you if it "bounces around the inside of your skull and doesn't exit". I hear that one a lot too.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

that a 22 isn't a good defensive round because "If you shot me with a 22 it would just make me mad."? Really! I wonder how many of these guys would be willing to back up that statement.

I heard a guy working at Bass Pro in Prattville AL make this statement last week and it's not the first time I have heard it. I'm not saying that a 22 is a good SD/HD weapon or a bad one and I'm not advocating that anyone recommend it to a new shooter but making asinine statements like that can give people the impression that the 22 isn't a dangerous round. Like it or not there are a lot of people looking for guns right now that have no clue what they really need and they need a sales person to impart knowledge and make recommendations instead of dumbassery.

Vent over.

Vent all you wish. It's understandable.

Unfortunately, you can't argue with these people and, in most cases, it's useless proposition. You can't change their minds.

Any round capable of poking a hole in someone is, by definition, inherently dangerous. How dangerous is relative to the performance of other rounds...but it's STILL dangerous.

Anybody who's shot a .22 of any kind at a variety of objects knows that a .22 is fully capable of punching a hole through quite an impressive number of objects, and fairly deeply as well.

I don't think there are very many people out there who seriously advocate a .22 for self-defense, given the huge variety of other rounds which are very much more effective in the role. But, self-defense being what it is, you use what you have when you have it (weapon of opportunity). If you have a club, use it. If you have a knife, use it. If you have a gun, use it. If the gun is a .22...use it.


I really don't think the primary sales point for most .22's is "self-defense" anyway...which means this guy's comments are totally out to lunch.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Even though the modern .32 acp round has about twice the energy of a .22LR., a middle-aged friend (very seasoned gun owner) told me that it might be better to throw the Sauer 38H handgun at a person, because being hit by a .32acp bullet "would only piss them off".

You know, he might very well have something there. Superman stood rock-steady whenever anybody shot him with a gun in the old TV show...but ducked every time when they threw the empty gun at him!

 

[btg3]

....many new people to firearms in general do not. These are the people that do not know the BS when they hear it and after all they work at a gun store they should know.

"Caveat emptor" applies regardless. Whether you are buying a gun, an engagement ring, a vehicle, medical services, real estate... if you choose to believe what you're told, then that is your choice.

 

[btg3]

A few years ago a uncle of mine was shot in the stomach by a .22lr rifle from a distance of about 5 ft while squirrel hunting by his friend. He finished his hunt then drove himself to the ER. They xrayed him and said the bullet stopped after only going into about 3" of fat. He is about 280#. They said it would not be a danger and there was no reason to even remove it. Its still there!

So... was he mad or not? Isn't that what we all want to know?

 

[itsa pain]

I have seen first hand the after effects of a kid (19 yo) who tried to kill himself with a .22 pistol put right between his eyes. It was a "perfect" shot. The bullet just splattered where his unibrow would be. Looked like he went a full round with the young George Forman with no gloves on. Bullet never penetrated his skull. Wish I had pictures of his face but HIPPA laws won't allow us that luxury. But the fact it didn't kill him doesn't mean I EVER want to be shot with one at any distance.

There are a lot of victims of mob hit men 6 ft under with 22 holes in their heads

 

[fallout mike]

Btg3 , he didn't even get mad. Lol.

 

[fpgt72]

"Caveat emptor" applies regardless. Whether you are buying a gun, an engagement ring, a vehicle, medical services, real estate... if you choose to believe what you're told, then that is your choice.

Yes but there is so much mis-information out there.....just how does a new person with just a casual interest find out.....they are not going to read books, magazines or anything like that. Many TV shows are just as bad or worse....so they turn to the people they think are the experts....those that work at the gun shop.....boyfriends and just friends that they know have guns....but you could be very good friends with someone at work for years but never know he has an interest in guns....we don't tend to be overt about our hobby.

So the real problem is there are so many new people out there now but not a real good go-to source for real information...this is where people fall into the hands of these guys that think the little old lady should carry a 500 as their CCW weapon.

 

[MedWheeler]

madFive writes (in post 44):

Steer them toward a cartridge that is proven to stop a threat and save lives when it counts...

I wonder what cartridge that may be...

 

[jrdolall]

I wonder what cartridge that may be...

7 1/2" magnum double nought buck of course.

 

[Reloadron]

Would I recommend a 22 LR handgun for personal defense? No I wouldn't, however, if that had to do then I guess a 22 LR it is. There is no shortage of dead people as a result of a 22 LR cartridge fired from a handgun.

On February 27th 2012 a deranged maggot named T.J. Lane (a juvenile) walked into the Chardon HS cafeteria (Chardon, Ohio) a few miles from where I live and fired 10 rounds from a Ruger MK II 22 caliber semi-automatic handgun. Lane was not any sort of well trained marksman. When all was said and done 3 students were dead and 3 injured, one of the latter paralyzed for life. Never underestimate the little 22 LR cartridge. The list of people who succumbed to 22 LR caliber gunshots is very long.

So while the 22 LR cartridge would not be my first choice as a self defense round, it is a viable little cartridge and all too often played down.

Ron

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

7 1/2" magnum double nought buck of course.

HOLY COW! There's a 7 1/2" magnum shell out there? Just shooting that thing as a blank would be deadly, much less loaded with 00 Buck!

 

[Al Thompson]

Ya know, I ignored the first silly, my mistake.

Knock it off, please.

 

[jrdolall]

HOLY COW! There's a 7 1/2" magnum shell out there? Just shooting that thing as a blank would be deadly, much less loaded with 00 Buck!

You must be referring to 3 1/2" 00 Buck. I was talking about the 7 1/2" double NOUGHT Buck. Totally different animal and only available from Jethro Bodine sporting goods

 

[csmallo]

Would I recommend a 22 LR handgun for personal defense? No I wouldn't, however, if that had to do then I guess a 22 LR it is. There is no shortage of dead people as a result of a 22 LR cartridge fired from a handgun.

On February 27th 2012 a deranged maggot named T.J. Lane (a juvenile) walked into the Chardon HS cafeteria (Chardon, Ohio) a few miles from where I live and fired 10 rounds from a Ruger MK II 22 caliber semi-automatic handgun. Lane was not any sort of well trained marksman. When all was said and done 3 students were dead and 3 injured, one of the latter paralyzed for life. Never underestimate the little 22 LR cartridge. The list of people who succumbed to 22 LR caliber gunshots is very long.

So while the 22 LR cartridge would not be my first choice as a self defense round, it is a viable little cartridge and all too often played down.

Ron

We had almost the same exact thing happen in 1997, only the little punk wounded 5 kids and killed 3. He comes up every year or so saying he was "insane" and the state should not have accepted his plea bargain.

 

[leadchucker]

I recall being flamed for making the remark that the OP referred to regarding 22's or 25's. Yes. both of these are firearms, and both will kill, but one thing is obvious;

The primary purpose of a self defense firearm is to immediately render an attacker unable to continue to attack. Compared to the larger more powerful calibers, a 22 or a 25 falls a bit short in that department.

 

[improperlyaged]

Now I am not hating on the lowly .22, but I saw a man just a few days ago that attempted suicide with one and lived. Shot himself in the heart and was able to speak to the ER staff just fine. He had a pneumothorax that was tensioning but its wasn't preventing him from sitting up and talking to the doc.

 

[Cee Zee]

I totally agree that the best gun to get shot with is a water gun and sometimes that's not a good idea either. But using Reagan as an example isn't a good idea to demonstrate how effective a .22 is. The guy was in his 70's and he didn't even realize he had been shot for several minutes. He arrived at the hospital making jokes about making sure he had a Republican doctor etc. and he had few ill effects from the shooting. Brady did have serious injuries but he didn't die for a good while.

I wouldn't pick a .22 as a SD weapon but I wouldn't turn my nose up at one if it was all I had either. But the fact more people are killed by them is likely due that more of them are out in the world by a big margin over any other single caliber. For SD I'm going to use the most effective tool I can get and sorry to let some people know it that won't be a .22. It will be the biggest gun I can operate at the time if I have a choice. Quick firing is a big attribute too. I'd use a CAI Centurion 39 for CCW if it wasn't so dang heavy.

 

[Al Thompson]

And I think Cee Zee ties up the plethora of viewpoints quite well.