How much accuracy do you need?

[Jeff22]

"How accurate is accurate? Since the objective to shooting is hitting, the answer to the question lies within the size of the target at a specific distance along with the intrinsic capabilities of the pistol and ammunition combination. Added to this is the ability of the shooter to effectively operate the equipment.
Most quality pistols when accompanied by quality ammunition are mechanically capable of two inch groups or better at twenty five yards. Acceptable accuracy for the shooter is a bit more complex. A guideline to work with involves a simple paper plate or similar item that is approximately eight inches in diameter. This dimension corresponds with numerous targets to be engaged by the pistol shooter both inanimate and otherwise.
The maximum distance that a shooter can regularly hit the plate is the maximum distance that the shooter can consider himself adequately accurate with his present choice of pistol and ammunition."
--George Harris
Sig-Sauer Training Academy


HOW BIG IS THE VITAL ZONE?
(1.) The target area on the human head is about 6 inches by 6 inches. From the front, aim for the cranio-occular cavity -- the eye sockets are the best place. Aiming at the forehead may result in the bullet skipping off or not penetrating the skull. From the side, try to put the bullet into the ear canal.
(2.) Adult males are about 19 inches tall from shoulder to waist
(3.) Adult females are about 14 inches tall from shoulder to waist.
(4.) The major difference in height between people is in the length of their legs.
(5.) The width of the adult body nipple to nipple is 8 or 9 inches.
(6.) If the target is standing sideways or bladed to you, the vital area may only be 3 or 4 inches wide.
(from Louis Awerbuck: Yavapai Firearms Academy Tactical Handgun Stage 1 clas

 

[ArchAngelCD]

If you can put 5 rounds into a 5" circle in 5 seconds from 5 yards you can protect yourself.

 

[PzGren]

How much accuracy do you need?


All I can get! Accuracy does not hurt as long as the speed in a defensive situation is adequate.

 

[Eightball]

You need as much accuracy as you are intending for the firearm at hand to produce for the purpose with which intent you purchased said firearm.

Simple enough. Bowling pin gun=bowling pins, Range gun=whatever fun, SD gun (to me)=at least that 5" wide spot.

 

[chris in va]

What my Kadet offers. Hits a bowling pin at a measured 65 yards every time.

 

[Just Jim]

The size of an active bg may change as he may exspose less of his body. You are not going to stand there and give someone 19 inches to shoot at and neither is the bad guy. The gun you carry should be able to outshoot you.

jj

 

[M2 Carbine]

How much accuracy do you need?

It just depends on the target. Bullseye shooting at 50 yards or defense shooting at 7 yards?

I figure what I "need" is always somewhat more than I can deliver.
Good enough, is not good enough.

Like,

ArchAngelCD If you can put 5 rounds into a 5" circle in 5 seconds from 5 yards you can protect yourself.

This is difficult to do consistantly.

I seldom break 5 seconds.
(But I do use a smaller than 5" circle.)

 

[possum]

if i can hit 12ga shotgun shells at 10uds with it then it is good to go. do i need that much? no but it is good to know that i have the ability and that the gun is capable. that plays into the mental aspect of it.

all of my handguns are capable of good enough accuracy for carry/defense/ccw etc.

ruger p345 1.5" at 15yds standing off hand, i don't need that but it is good to have.

reliability is my #1 priority and i don't mind loosing a little accuracy as long as the gun is 100% reliable, otherwise the gun is worthless to me. the great thing is glock, sa xd, sa 1911's and the various other guns that i own or use give me great accuracy as well as 100% reliability. i can't ask for more than that.

 

[Constantine-p89]

Accurate enough to hit the paper.

 

[dwave]

How much accuracy do I need? Enough to protect myself.

How much accuracy do I want? All I can get.

 

[mljdeckard]

I have a Kimber Custom II that will do 1.5 -2" at 25 yards. I shot a Nighthawk ($2700) that guarantees 1" at 25. I'm not good enough to prove either without a rest. And in any event, 1" more of accuracy is NOT worth $2000 to ME.

Our Army-issued Berettas were rumored to be good for 4" at 25. If this seems "only half as good as the Kimber", stop and think for a second, how many soldiers are ever going to do a hostage shot with a pistol at 25 yards?

The rifle market has also become so competitive in the last 15 years or so, that the "Elusive minute-of-angle" is now more like a minimum standard. If you sell a rifle that won't print sub-1" at 100 yards, it is reviewed in the magazines as junk. The truth is, most hunters shoot about minute-of-milk jug in real life.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

M2 Carbine,
That's some fine shooting. I can see why the face on those targets is so sad!!

 

[M2 Carbine]

ArchAngelCD
M2 Carbine,
That's some fine shooting. I can see why the face on those targets is so sad!!

Thanks, because of age I've got to work at it anymore.
That's my standard target. I use it for most everything.
Just made up a face target but haven't decided if I like it or not.

Using a timer for a while now has been an education.
Accurate is easy and fast is easy, but fast and accurate is hard.

I recently bought a Kimber Ultra Covert II.
With acceptable accuracy I can't get much better than a second and a half per shot.
But it's fun trying.


Low light with CT laser.

How much accuracy do you need?

Along with accuracy you need to work on speed.
Personally, in most shooting I "need" to keep all rounds inside that 4X6 inch circle. Anything else isn't acceptable.
Just a limit I set for myself.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

"Accuracy" should be replaced by "shootability" -- essentially a statement of how well you can shoot your gun under realistic conditions. Mechanical accuracy (accuracy uninfluenced by shooter error) is only a part of shootability.

Remember, expect a 90% degradation of performance under actual combat conditions.

 

[gcrookston]

I'd want to put an eye out with my pistol (s)....

 

[W.E.G.]

Accurate enough to fight your way back to the rifle you shouldn't have put down in the first place.

 

[ranger58]

I'm with dwave, , 99% point shooting is most all of my practice now. and can always use more.

 

[LegalAlien]

Shot placement and accuracy is essential.
Beretta 92FS with Crimson Trace LG-402 Laser grips.
3 mags x 15 rds @20ft - half with and half without the laser:

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[Okiecruffler]

Haven't decided yet, but this is getting close.....

 

[CU74]

I figure if I can cover the holes with a saucer at ten yards with a handgun I will be okay. That said, my goal is to cover them with a quarter. I'm still practicing.......

 

[Geronimo45]

If you can put 5 rounds into a 5" circle in 5 seconds from 5 yards you can protect yourself.

5" diameter or radius?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

5" diameter or radius?

If it were a 5" radius that wouldn't be a 5" circle now would it?

 

[Waywatcher]

If you can put 5 rounds into a 5" circle in 5 seconds from 5 yards you can protect yourself.

I think thats a bit overly broad and completely arbitrary. 1rd/sec is really slow.

Practice accuracy, practice speed. If anything for your example I would say a good thing to practice to be come proficient would be more like:

6 shots into an 8" circle as fast as you possibly can at whatever range you can. Keep practicing--you'll keep getting faster and more accurate.

There's no magical rule of "5" where a shooter suddenly becomes adequate and should stop improving.

 

[jfh]

The value of a slogan like the "5x5" rests in its comprehensive description of self-defense shooting performance. IOW, it covers all the bases, but the trick is to use those criteria to improve your own performance in any of the parameters.

When I first started shooting 'practical handgun' twenty years ago, it took a long, long time to develop the mindset for this kind of shooting--I came from a .22LR Marksmanship background, and the last 'serious shooting' I had done then had involved breathing and trigger control throughout the one-shot cycle.

After diligent practice back then, I got to where I could regularly drop five reactive targets at 15 yards in about 5+ seconds with a just-barely-Major 1911, starting from the ready position. Seventeen years later, I can now only see three blurry objects instead of a target, front sight, and rear sight--those are the facts of my eyes. And, instead of shooting a (nominal) 46-oz 1911 tweaked up and with special reloads, I'm shooting an 18-oz lightweight with factory SD ammo. But, I can get off 5 shots in under 5 seconds, on a good day, starting from a ready position.

So all these variables have something to do with what is good performance. For me, using M2 Carbines' performance he's so willingly shared, I would sacrifice some accuracy to pick up the speed. Personally, were 3 of my shots with my j-frame be in the forehead in a 2" group at five yards, I would also be satisfied if one other grazed one ear and the other 'off' shot parted his hair--and it wouldn't matter to me if the first shot was low and hit him in the mouth on the way to his brain stem.

My j-frame has a CT laser, so it's easy to shoot heads-up, eyes on the target, and use the dot to reinforce good trigger control. That allows me to concentrate on speed now that my hand is tough enough to do it. Five shots in five seconds one-handed from a lightweight j-frame at five yards is the current goal. (A hint, Waywatcher--I don't think 1 shot per second is slow if one is over 60.)

And that's the beauty of the 5x5x5x5 paradigm--it provides the criteria for what to practice on, for any of us.

No matter what one's current performance level is, one will always "get better" by starting with basic performance and then increasing the criteria slightly and practicing diligently to achieve the goal. "Successive Approximations" towards a realistic goal will always improve your performance--at least to the limit of your age / body / mindset.

Jim H.

 

[Wedge]

Depends on the use as other posters have said.

For example, for a hunting gun I expect/demand more accurate than I am.

For self defense my requirements go down.

For plinking/fun they are pretty low. Example, I have a P22 which delivers minute of can accuracy at 7 yards. I get a ton of trigger time with it, it is accurate enough for the job and I always have fun. In fact it would pass the 5x5 requirement many have suggested.