How realistic to make an an unfamiliar 300 yard shot?

[Caimlas]

How realistic is it for someone to be able to, predictably, make a "kill" shot at 300 yards on a man- or deer-sized target? How much practice is typically necessary for a person to make such a shot in unfamiliar terrain?

For instance, if someone can consistently shoot 3" groups from a standing position and is reasonably good at range estimation, what kind of additional training would be necessary to make shots like this with regularity?

I've been having a debate with a friend over this who insists that the number of people who can regularly make shots like this are few and far in between - and it's been too cold and nasty out for us to go test the hypothesis on paper. I regularly shoot @ 100 yards and don't think that it'd be all that difficult, provided the shooter is a good shot at 100 yards and is familiar with the drop of the specific round they're using, is able to estimate wind speed and direction reasonably well (say, within 10 mph) and is decent at range estimation (within 50 yards or so).

What say you?

 

[hit or miss]

300 yds with a good rifle and scope isn't that hard if you have a decent rest. I wouldn't want to make it off hand on a living creature though.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Three inches at 100 yards offhand is unrealistic -- unless you're an olympic free-rifle shooter. I can keep my shots in a pie tin at that range, but for longer ranges (and for shorter ones, too) I will always try for a rest, or a more stable position.

One good trick is the old squirrel hunter's lean -- lean against a tree, and your offhand shooting will improve dramatically.

 

[GunTech]

Offhand? I never take an offhand shot over 100 yards or so. With sling or bipod, and accurate range, 300 is cake. But you wouldn't want to haul my favorite LR rifle around for long.

Taken at a ranged 325 yards.

 

[rero360]

I can make 300 meter hits on man size targets pretty regularly with iron sites, from the prone supported, and so so from the prone unsupported, ut as to actual group sizes, no clue.

 

[paintballdude902]

ive never tried it so i picked the last option

with my primary rifle being a .30-30 i dont do much over 100-150

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

I practice at 120 yards, but that's because that's the distance of the backstop. I'd like to try longer range shooting, just need to find a place to do it. Most of my deer were taken at 200-300 yards (which is part of the reason I want to practice at longer range!)

 

[1200 meters]

Practice will tell. I was a sniper for over 14 years in Special Forces with an M-21 system. A really souped up M-14. I used a Leatherwood ART I scope (even after the ART II came out). I was zeroed at 300 Meters. The scope auto ranged to 900 meters with crosshairs on the target. Now I also shoot a M-48 mauser in an ATI scout stock with a Mil Dot scope 3 to 9x and so far have been able to shoot standing off hand to 450 meters. If you can't aford an ART scope then a good mil dot works very well with practice. Check the Leatherwood site for the ART scopes, they're absolutely amazeing. The sporter model M-600 is crosshairs on from 200 meters to 600 meters and the M-1200 is crosshairs on from 300 meters to 1200 meters. This is done with a Billistic cam that raises and lowers the scope as you range the target. Blitz

 

[WayneConrad]

"standing/prone/sitting"

Need to pick one. Group size is significantly different for each of these positions. Prone can be awfully close to benched for a good shooter. Sitting, not so close. Standing, larger still.

Prone and slung, I've shot close to a minute on my best days. I can count on two minutes. I don't even want to talk about my offhand. That's just embarassing.

 

[taliv]

it's trivial. at 300, you barely even have to worry about wind and with a 100 yrd zero, you're only a few inches low at 300 with most rifle cartridges. i'm not saying you'll keep 3 or even 6" groups, but you can hit an IPSC silhouette or a deer w/o much issue.

that certainly does not mean an shooter unfamiliar with 300yrd shooting should be taking shots at deer at that range.

I'm far more impressed with hunters who know their limits and pass on shots they can't make, than the knuckleheads posting pictures of deer they shot in the ass from 1000 yrds away that still weren't dead by the time they got there.

however, if you're 49 yrds and 9mph off on your distance and wind calls, much past 300 you won't even be on paper.

 

[gbran]

I've hunted for over 40 years. I rarely if ever take an offhand shot over 100 yds. Other than varmints, I've never taken a game animal over 300 yards. Don't know if I could or not, but I do shoot long range gongs with good success.

 

[Zak Smith]

There are numerous long-range matches out here that are shot in the field, positions dictated by the terrain features alone, and without prior knowledge of the target positions which give data in relation to this question. A man-size target out to 500 yards is a total "gimme" target.

 

[Sagetown]

After doing some practice at 200 yards with a Rem700 .270, I happened to have a chance at a moving coyote at 325 yards. Using a fence post for support, I led him about half a body length and held several inches high. The round broke the middle of his backbone. Luckiest shot I ever made.

 

[Fumbler]

All I know is all the guys who tell me they take 300+ yard shots on deer don't know crap about ballistics and can't judge distances.

It's hard to take a guy seriously when he said he shot a buck through the lungs at 475 yards with his 308 by aiming at the withers...and he zeros his rifle at 100 yards.
I asked him how far he thought a fence post was. He said 220 yards, I said 130. We paced it out at around 140-150.

An unfamiliar shot on game at 300 yards...
1 - I don't believe the majority of hunters can do it
2 - I do believe many THR members could do it. We're on THR because we're interested in shooting and all things related to shooting and we tend to shoot much more often than the average joe.

Shooting 3 rounds to sight in your rifle before each deer season isn't going to cut it.
Could I do it? I probably could if I had to, BUT I wouldn't try it on game because I don't shoot my rifles as much as my handguns and I know my limitations.
I think if someone practiced those types of shots for a full range session at least a handful of times during the year then they could do it. Few rifle owners practice that much.
Finding suitable rests in the field has a lot to do with it too. The only way you learn how to improvise in the field is to practice in the field.

 

[dmazur]

I'm working on developing better skills from a sitting position at 200 yds. With proper rangefinding and a ballistic reticle, I hope to be confident enough to take shots at deer out to 300 yds.

For me, "confident" is going to be running in place for a couple of minutes, dropping into sitting position with bipod, and 6" group.

I think if I can do that I probably have a chance at deer vital zone in the field.

I don't like unsupported shots at all. If I get any better at sitting, the next goal is some kind of respectable groups at 100 yds, standing.

 

[stubbicatt]

We shoot at prairie dogs to 300+ yards, and hit them regularly.

 

[easyg]

How realistic is it for someone to be able to, predictably, make a "kill" shot at 300 yards on a man- or deer-sized target? How much practice is typically necessary for a person to make such a shot in unfamiliar terrain?

I can't say for sure about 2" groups or 3" groups and such, but Soldiers and Marines (Sailors and Airmen too I guess) routinely hit human sized targets at 300 meters using just iron-sights from both prone supported position and standing supported position.
It's not that difficult.
And lots of guys, including ones who have never even held a rifle before, can do it after just a few weeks on the rifle range during Basic Training.

 

[K3]

I can outshoot my older brother when any kind of a rest is involved, be it a bench, treelimb, backpack, or shooting sticks, or even old fashioned prone.

Offhand, he is amazing. I have never seen him miss, and he's taken offhand shots on moving deer out to 125 yards. Running deer on a couple of occasions. The thing is, he's a master with the shotgun on clays, dove, and quail, so it makes sense to me that he's so steady with the rifle. I get my limit most days birdhunting, but I burn through a lot of shells to do it. He is far more economical.

I've made 3 shots on deer at ranges over 300 yards. One deer was slowly feeding along at 338 yards. One was standing broadside at 315, and the other was laid up under a cedar at 301. In all cases I laid down and used my jacket for a rest. Most of my deer were taken at under 150.

 

[jwxspoon]

Prone its a relatively easy shot with a good rifle and iron sights; with a scope it's a no brainer. Now a moving target, that's a different story.

jw

 

[ZeSpectre]

I'm mostly a pistol guy but I once had a chance to take a "just for the fun of it" 300 yard shot (against a big steel target of a buffalo) with a Sharps rifle equipped with vernier sights of some type. Prone with a "shooting stix" kind of setup. I got three shots, one miss, one clang that would have been a bad shot, and one clang that would have been a DRT hit on a real animal.

I'd never fired the gun before but had some good instruction beforehand and a pretty stable platform from which to shoot (and it was a NICE gun).

 

[Chuck R.]

I shoot pretty regular in BPCR silhouette (200 meter off-hand, 300, 385, and 500 meters supported) and an occasional 800, 900 1000 yard match. I also own my own range with a 200 meter bench and 300 meter prone position, so I get quite a bit of practice in.

I can make a 300 meter shot fairly easily, but I won’t unless there’s no other way. The longest I’ve shot on game was a chamois in Austria at about 425 meters across a valley. I only took that shot because it was a trophy buck, there was no way to get closer, I had a good rest, and the crosswind was negligible.


Chuck

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Prone its a relatively easy shot with a good rifle and iron sights; with a scope it's a no brainer. Now a moving target, that's a different story.

With an unknown or guestimated range and the wind blowing, it's a different story, too.

 

[UnTainted]

When we hunt Nevada, we zero our rifles at 300 yards and shoot for the neck. We have been successful sitting and standing, though I prefer to sit. At that range, I find there's time to sit.

 

[Float Pilot]

My medium bore guns 35 and 375 caliber are zeroed for 300. The last two or three critters that I hunted were all between 300 to 350 yards. (358 Norma)
My 45-70 is zeroed for 100 yards.
My 30-06 and 7x57 are set at 450. The heavy barrel 7 x57 will shoot 4-5 inch groups at 400 all day long. The light weight 30-06 will do a 6 inch group at 400 for 3 shots then it goes all to hell. Ok as a Mountain Goat gun.
The 6.5 Swedes are dead on at 300 due to thier sights. Just range guns.
I have not been able to zero my new 300 Win Mag due to weather.

 

[General Geoff]

Purely off-hand with nothing to brace against, no way, not even with a scope; my hands are too shaky.
Prone, or with a sling and a tree or other structure to brace myself upon, I can do it with iron sights.