How realistic is 600 yards with iron sights?

[MTMilitiaman]

tank tracked? what does that mean?

Some people call them "Kelly Humps."

It is when a deep ditch is dug across the road and the dirt is mounded up in front of the ditch in order to make the road inaccessible by vehicles. Most vehicles that attempt to climb the mound end up high centered in the ditch. When a road or access point is to be permanently closed, as opposed to temporarily or seasonally closed with a gate, they use a Kelly Hump. In the Forest Service we also referred to as "tank tracked," because the obstacle apparently was used as a barrier against tanks in the past.

 

[kcmarine]

Hm... methinks an ATV or dirtbike would be a good way to counter those Kelly Humps...

 

[Geno]

Here's your next investment:

http://actiontarget.com/spt_pt_torso.html

That will have you 10 for 10 at 50 yards in no time.

Doc2005

 

[hawkhavn]

MTMilitiaman,

I don't know if yourealize it or not but this: "because I had settled into a groove where the front sight returned to the same place after every shot and therefore took almost no time to line up for the next." means you had found your NPOA. I'll second the recommendation that you get to an Appleseed and consider becoming an instructor. Your ability to accurately describe that setup and shot would indicate (to me) an ability to teach.

Any questions/concerns, contact me.

hawkhavn
RWVA Instructor

 

[MTMilitiaman]

MTMilitiaman,

I don't know if yourealize it or not but this: "because I had settled into a groove where the front sight returned to the same place after every shot and therefore took almost no time to line up for the next." means you had found your NPOA. I'll second the recommendation that you get to an Appleseed and consider becoming an instructor. Your ability to accurately describe that setup and shot would indicate (to me) an ability to teach.

Any questions/concerns, contact me.

hawkhavn
RWVA Instructor

If by NPOA you mean Natural Point Of Aim, then yes, I am familiar with the term. "Natural respiratory pause," "natural point of aim," and "clear sight-blurry target" were common phrases used by my PMI in boot camp. I swear, some days, it's all he said at all. I just found out 13 or 14 years ago when I started shooting more than rimfires with a growing interest in hunting and long range rifle shooting that good things happened if you could shift your body rather than the rifle so that it just settled into place and you didn't have to fight with it. I don't see what the big deal is though. These are skills I take for granted and can't imagine being without. I don't mean to brag, either. I didn't even own an "assault weapon" when the ban was passed in 1994, but I was twelve years old then and identified myself as a rifleman even at that age enough to take it as a personal attack. It was deeply offensive for me, even then. It was a loss of innocence for me, and it is was got me interested in the gun control debate. By the time I was thirteen I knew the Second Amendment by heart and shortly after, the other nine. I knew more about early American history by the time I was in high school than most kids knew when they graduated.

I still think I need a lot more practice before I feel comfortable shooting in public, let alone before I consider being an instructor.

 

[Geno]

All:
This is a great thread! It has me full-motivated! This Tuesday I get the electronic spinal stimulator removed from my neck. That (very safe) procedure will restore me to my former unrestricted ability to fire even prone. My neuronsurgeon is very proarms, and has directed me to "...become as active as I can..." He likes that I shoot, and so, I have bought a few cases of CMP .30-06, an M1 Garand. I also bought a case of .22LR and a Kimber Gov't Model 82 Heavy target rifle. Within 12 days (10 days post surgery) I approved and expected by my surgeon to be enjoying some serious blast-fest time at the family farm!

Hawkhavn:
Seriously, thanks for that second! We need to get more folks certified to instruct Apple seed! Some my best experiences in life happened when I was actively teaching Hunter Safety! As soon as I have healed, and qualify at an Appleseed shoot, I will add getting instructor certification to my list. Next, is to sponsor an Appleseed shoot here in Michigan!

MTMilitiaman:
Sir, the impressiveness of your shooting, is exceeded only by your sense of humility! That, above all else tells me that you are instructor quality. Do it for your country, yet an additional way to serve.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I think you should be proud of that. Two hits at 600yds may not be that impressive on an NRA High-Power range with nice contrasting targets and wind flags; but it is pretty good for a low-contrast target with no spotter in those conditions.

 

[blitzen]

MTMilitiaman,

If you sat in a circle snapping in on those barrels like a few of us have, and now you have an M1A, I think you might be sand bagging for the crowd. Keep a dope book and you'll be hitting that target all day long. Or at least as long as your eyes are good. Good post and good pics. Semper Fi Brother!

 

[Limeyfellow]

I done 600 yard shooting with iron sights on my Lee Enfield. I was happy to be on the target with a couple in the black. My eyesight is just good enough to do it, though it really is a rather small target with the eyes at that distance.

I am not sure how the people who do 1000-1200 yard iron sights do it at Bisley, Stickledown and so on. Those guys eyes are unbelievable to see the targets.

 

[P-32]

yeah, those .223 went in sideways though.

Not hardly. For 600 yards I use 80 gr. SMK's with my match AR. These are loaded long and must be loaded in the rifle one at a time as they won't fit the mag.

As for MT: Using ball ammo I would say you did pretty well. I use 168 or 175 gr. SMK's in my match tuned 308 M-1 to make those 600 yard shots. When the job situtation changes, may I suggest you may enjoy shooting High Power. Course of fire is:

Standing, 2 sighters and 20 rounds for record in 22 minutes at 200 yards.

Sitting, 2 sighters in 2 minutes, then from standing to sitting 10 rounds in 60 seconds with mag change. From standing to sitting a second string of 10 rounds is fired in 60 seconds for a total of 20 rounds for record at 200 yards.

Prone Rapid. 2 sighters in 2 minutes, then from standing to prone 10 rounds in 70 seconds with a mag change. A second string is fired from standing to prone as above for a total 20 rounds for record at 300 yards.

Prone Slow fire: 2 sighters and 20 rounds for record in 22 minutes at 600 yards.

Sight picture remains the same as the aiming black gets larger the further back you get. There are also 100 yard matches which are shot on reduced targets when a full course is not avalible.

Total number of round expended, 88 with 80 rounds for record. Some people get all wrapped up with thinking they might not shoot well enough. High Power shooters are some of the nicest people you will meet, always willing to help the new guy with the loan of equipment and advice. Few High Power shooters are stuck on themselves because we all started out about the same....at the bottom of the ranks. The match winner will have plenty of trigger time and managed to make the fewest mistakes during the match.

An Expert Marksman in the Service would about equal a High Power Sharpshooter.

 

[TimboKhan]

I'm no sniper, but it's obviously possible and relatively easy to do, provided you have a good rest, decent eyes and some trigger time in. I won't claim to be able to plunk them into an inch or anything dopey like that, but I can make hits on a man-size target at that range. I just can't guarantee where the hits will be! In any event, thats some good shooting, dude.

 

[hawkhavn]

MTMilitiaman,

That's just it, you 'get it'. You learned it the right way and can accurately describe/tell other folks how to make it work.

hawkhavn

 

[cpttango30]

Palma is shot at 800 900 and 1000 yards with open sights. with 155gr 308 bullets.

 

[MythBuster]

"An Expert Marksman in the Service would about equal a High Power Sharpshooter"

I have seen "expert" classed Army guys that could not hit the paper on a NRA High Power range.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

If you sat in a circle snapping in on those barrels like a few of us have, and now you have an M1A, I think you might be sand bagging for the crowd.

That I have, but I don't think I am sandbagging. I have just just apparently myself to a higher standard than most around me. I am proud of what I managed to accomplish, but I still feel rusty and expect better of myself if I am to be teaching others.

The argument is moot anyways as by the time I am able to afford an Appleseed shoot, and find the time to track one down, I'll have practiced a bit.

An Expert Marksman in the Service would about equal a High Power Sharpshooter.

I have seen 03s that had remarkable trouble hitting pop up Ivans from field positions past 300 meters without their RCOs.

 

[MythBuster]

You guys really need to start shooting NRA Highpower.

600 yards is considered mid range.

 

[foghornl]

Ask the guys-n-gals at Camp Perry, Ohio every August if 600 Yds is do-able with iron sights....

 

[csmkersh]

Look up Billy Dixon so time.
​

 

[taliv]

yes, 600 yrds is considered midrange. but the target is a 6 FOOT x 6 FOOT white cardboard backing with an x-ring half-again larger than MT's aiming black. the aiming black on the NRA target is larger than MT's entire cardboard and stump.

 

[Mr White]

The X ring on a standard MR-1 (600 yd, slowfire prone) target is 6" in diameter, the 10 ring is 12" and the aiming black, which includes the X-7 rings, is 36". Seeing a 36" black circle on a 72" white square at 600 yds isn't too hard.

Consistently hitting your 4" black circle would be a good feat for a top high power shooter, and even then, he'd have a much bigger bull to aim at. Hitting a circle 3 times that big at 600 still gives you a perfect score.

 

[P-32]

Seeing a 36" black circle on a 72" white square at 600 yds isn't too hard.

Your right. But hitting it every time is the hard part. The wind can move your bullet right off the whole thing. I have a good day if I can get in the the low 190's at 600.

 

[Eightball]

Closest I've come to that was about 500 yards on a WWI Mauser with the Ladder Sight elevated for the distance, at a target about as big. I can vouch for how hard that is to do, nice shooting, and it's refreshing to see someone being realistic about their shooting for a change.

 

[SpeedAKL]

Wow...given the nature of the target I am quite impressed....

 

[havoc7usmc]

Good Shooting

It feels good to hit some thing that far... great shot. Cook, Baker or Candle stick maker if you can't hit a man size target at 500 yards with your M16, you have a very short time in the Marine Corps. That was my DI's favorite saying.

PS Good pics!!!

Semper Fi
Guns - out

 

[Jon Coppenbarger]

there is a event at the national matches called rattle battle (NTIT). Try youtube and check it out. you start at 600 yards prone and when you get to 300 yards it is from the sitting position on just the head and shoulder target.
When the target comes up you have 50 seconds before it goes down. you have 6 shooters and 8 targets. the inside 4 guys shoot straight away and the out side two shooters have two targets each to shoot. most teams have different load plans but it seems like 25 to 30 rounds each at 600 yards is the norm. some military teams may try many more than that.
The target colors are either light tan or light green to make them look like uniforms or the like. they are on standard cardbord backers. In some lighting conditions they are hard to see. With practice and a solid wind call you can expect over 90% hits.