How realistic to make an an unfamiliar 300 yard shot?

[funfaler]

There is no reason that the average rifle owner, with a standard/rack grade rifle, with surplus ammo, in field positions, with iron sights can not have the very, very fundamental skills of being able to hit a "man sized" target at 300 yards.

This really is an extremely easy skill to learn and you can learn it in just one weekend, and $70 plus ammo at an Appleseed Shoot http://www.appleseedinfo.org This is what is taught at an Appleseed Shoot.

300 yards is easy, 500 is not much more difficult. Standard shooting, as outlined above, will get you to 500. No magic required, no special equipment required.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

There is no reason that the average rifle owner, with a standard/rack grade rifle, with surplus ammo, in field positions, with iron sights can not have the very, very fundamental skills of being able to hit a "man sized" target at 300 yards

Absolutely true. But there is a big difference between combat shooting, target shooting, and hunting.

In combat, a lot of people are shooting under stress at indistinct and often fleeting targets (and more may be shooting just to make noise.) In combat we accept there may be a very low hit ratio, and we accept any hit.

In target shooting, the targets are generally fixed, clearly seen, and the range is known. And the stress is much lower.

In hunting, we may be shooting at a fleeting target at a guestimated range, but we demand a killing shot, not just any hit.

 

[Urbana John]

I gottac all beat!!! Sitting----open sights-----1000 yds-----man sized target---all day long,,,,,,,,or until the "belt" runs out!!!!!

Seriously, 300 yds with a good rest, good scope, HBAR target .223 handloads & a "little" something to steady my nerves, I'd say I can keep shots in a 2" circle.

UJ

 

[taliv]

my best evar HP string was with an ar15 service rifle at 300 rapid fire. 100 - 7x (meaning 7 of the 10 went into a 3" X ring) shot in 70 seconds, from standing to prone, slung, with a mag change in the middle.

btw, i'm still classified "expert", not master or high master

 

[GCW5]

I sight in @ 250 yards, so 300 is pretty much a done deal. I still do most of my shooting at game around 100 yds or less, but practice for the long ones if needed. I'm shooting a .270 and a 9.3 X 62 most of the time.

 

[cmidkiff]

Another recommendation for the Appleseed program.

This is _exactly_ what the program is designed to teach... how to hit a man sized target, first shot and every shot, with a 'typical' rack grade rifle and iron sights. You'll not find better training at anywhere near the cost. 2 days, $70, under 21 and Military shoot free. (hope I'm not quoting that wrong... it's close anyway.) Other than an attendee, I am in no way affiliated with the program, but hope to be one day!

I don't know why you would ever take an off-hand shot at 300 yards... lay down! Especially in a combat situation, you present a much smaller target, and your stability is increased dramatically!

 

[moojpg2]

all of my center fire (sept for the.45 colt lever gun) rifles are zeroed for 300yds, and i practice offhand/sitting with a sling at that range a lot, so yea, it's a no brainer, with irons or a scope.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

A 300 yard zero for a .30-06 will put you about five inches above line of sight at around 175 yards -- which is quite high if you're hunting deer-sized critters.

At the same time, the zero range doesn't help all that much if you mis-judge the range. I've seen many a "500 yard shot" that paced out to less than 150 yards. So the combination of a high zero and overestimation of range can result in a miss or a cripling shot.

 

[Zak Smith]

This reminds me of an experiment I did some months ago, in response to some "internet claims",

A while back there was a thread in the ----- forum that created some debate as to whether the following was possible:

to hit man size targets and smaller, out to 300 yards, from the shoulder in a second or less.

I wrote,

IMO, the crux of the 300-yard challenge hinges on:

1. size of target
2. contrast of target with background (ie can you see it)
3. start position vs. shoot position

I haven't tried this exact exercise. If the target is a clearly visible IPSC plate and the start position is a "high" low-ready-- my gut reaction is that this is possible, or at least close to possible - maybe some percentage of the time, for a good practical rifle shooter, if he gets some orientation and practice. A 30x18" IPSC plate @ 300 yards is the same apparent size as a 2.5" tall by 1.5" wide rectangle @ 25 yards, which makes it easier to visualize the problem.

and further noted:

... that a 2'x6' target is approx 3.5 times larger than what most consider a "human silhouette" (e.g. an IPSC target or E). The original claim was also "from the shoulder in a second or less."

Well, I got around to having three accomplished shooters test this. The testers were myself, RayDog (instructor and talented practical shooter), and a contracter (former Army SF).

To me a "man sized target" means an IPSC target-- certainly no larger. We set an armor steel IPSC plate at 310 yards (lased after the fact). The target started the day painted white with a 10" red dot painted in the middle, but had already absorbed 30-40 hits by this time. It was late in the day and there were no target locations in full sunlight left.

Using my 12" SBR with Aimpoint M2 and HALO attached, we shot offhand from a "Low Ready" that was about 30 degrees below horizontal. Not SUL, not a really low "low ready", but looking over the rifle at the target with the rifle down approx 30*. Starting at this position, the "RO" would buzz the timer and the shooter would engage the target with one shot only.

We each tried this drill 20-40 times. Two of us scored ONE hit under 1 second. Mine was 0.94, and RayDog's was 0.86. We each had a "few" hits in the 1.1 - 1.3 second range.

That makes a success rate of about 2%, after a lot of practice.

This is pretty consistent with my initial gut reaction of whether or not it is possible.

As a post-script, if the time limit is 3 seconds, this was doable almost 100% of the time. Further, from any supported position, it was possible virtually 100% of the time.

 

[Art Eatman]

If you make your shooting sessions into training sessions, a lot of this stuff gets a bunch easier. I've always preferred some sort of hasty rest in the field, particularly on standing-still targets. Don't ask me why, but moving targets are easier off-hand for me than are standing-still targets. Whatever lets me hold the crosshairs steady, or lets me bring them on target at the right time lets me hit stuff pretty far out there.

Trying to figure out distances, I try to lay out football fields. It helps. It also helps to actually see deer at different distances, just to get a feel of the whole shmear. Not hunting, just looking. (Or rabbits, or coyotes, whatever.)

Step off along a porch where you know the length; or a driveway or stretch of sidewalk. Count the steps (Two steps is a "Pace".) so you'll know the length for you. Then, out in the boonies, guess how far off some tree is, and walk to it while counting. You do this halfway regularly, and you'll get reasonably good at guesstimating distances.

Learn about terrain: In flat country, you tend to overestimate the distance. In canyon country, you tend to underestimate. I've looked across a canyon, guessed the distance and holdover, and shot at a rock just to check myself. It's sometimes embarrassing.

It mostly just takes some time and some practice, is all...

Art

 

[taliv]

I don't know why you would ever take an off-hand shot at 300 yards... lay down! Especially in a combat situation, you present a much smaller target, and your stability is increased dramatically!

i'm not a combat veteran or anything, but my money says they don't mow the grass much on battlefields.

 

[GunTech]

Prone shots hunting are tricky too where I hunt, for exactly the same reason. Sitting/kneeling is usually required, due to long grass. If possible, i like to get some height so I can go prone. Typically, I am shooting from a slight elevation into an alfalfa field. 300 yard shots are common.

I take my rifle with cosign indicator, and my Leica range finder. My dope is taped to the stock, every 50 yards from 100 to 1000. Rifle is sighted in at 100 yards, and the big EREK knob on my USO ST-10 lets me go from 100 to 1000 yards with half a revolution.

I did learn an important lesson last year. 155gn lapua scenars make a big mess at 150 yards. I had one exit wound I could put my fist into easily.

I need to go back to Barnes TSX for hunting.

 

[stolivar]

300 yards is nothing

I have a nice 600 yard range I shoot at regularly. With everything from 45-70 down. Knowing the range it is fairly easy. I shoot a lot. and I mean a lot.

Now shooting at an animal that far. Not unless it was a perfect shot with perfect weather and I had a good rest. Never off hand at an animal. I would not want it to suffer.


steve