How should I respond to an anti from europe?

[MikePGS]

Well you could always mention that since we have personal ownership of firearms we don't have to rely on the government for our every need. Then again, maybe some europeans actually find this sign comforting?

 

[MikePGS]

From what I understand, though it could be a myth, the Japanese didn't invade the main 48 states because of firearm ownership. I believe the quote was. " If you invade, there will be a rifle behind every blade of grass"

While i believe the quote is generally attributed to Yamamoto, i think it's actually been debunked. As in theres no evidence that he actually said such a thing, but rather it'd been attributed to him for some reason or another.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

From http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/kreca2.html

Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto (the chief planner of the Pearl Harbor attack) spoke warningly of "a rifle behind every blade of grass" when discussions of invading the USA came up.

 

[ConfuseUs]

No need to win the debate with this one. We just need to make sure that when Western Europe has been overrun by Muslim radicals who want to reduce Europe to 9th century standards of civil rights, women's rights, and intellectual freedom that effete snobs like this are not allowed out of the nest they fouled. I think then he or she may start to agree with our thinking.

 

[lanternlad1]

Debate won't win this argument, you need proof of how things REALLY work.

So give it to them. Show them what happens when their big and powerful government can't protect them.

I'm talking about KATRINA.

Show them news articles of how FEMA totally failed the residents of New Orleans.

Show them videos of little old ladies being beaten by thugs in police vests when they refuse to comply with an unlawful order to hand over their weapons.

Show them the heightened crime statistics of other cities that opened their hearts to flood refugees, only to have some of those same refugees try their terror tactics in a new environment.

Show before and after pictures of store owners whose weapons were taken unlawfully and who were looted or died because of it.

SHOW NEW ORLEANS AS THE WAR ZONE IT IS TODAY.

Those who never lived it won't believe it. Those who did will never forget it.

The all-powerful government can't always protect you. When the lights go out, you'll have to do that for yourself.

Do you feel safe with that baseball bat?

I feel safe with my guns...

 

[Blackbeard]

What is a fact though is that a gun is a tool for killing.

To paraphrase his argument, he's saying that you don't need a gun unless you're planning to kill someone. By that token, you don't need homeowner's insurance unless you're planning to burn down your house. It's a tool that is useless until it's really needed.

It's a dangerous thing to have because it enables people to do serious harm in their moments of greatest weakness, when they succumb to rage or other anxieties.

It also enables us to defend ourselves against people succumbing to rage. If there were no guns, only large people or good fighters would be dangerous when they go off. The rest of us would be helpless.

gun owners will state that guns are necessary to rise up to their government if necessary. It occurs to me that it has never been more necessary than in the last eight years

The people who would have risen up to overthrow the current administration don't believe in private gun ownership. Imagine if there were no guns in this country and W decided to stay on as president after 2008, until the War on Terror is over. How are you going to stop him? Negotiate?

 

[17poundr]

I disagree strongly to the claim that if you buy a gun you are planning to kill somebody, othewize this man's country should arrest every person in it's armed forces!!!

I myself have come to this conclusionment, and if I ever get my dream of having my own range/shop, then on the range along with the Finnish army's range 'prayer' which goes 'I shall NEVER aim a gun, empty or loaded at anybody ever, exept if it is an enemy'.

Obiously an enemy is somebody trying to kill you! (or let us say for argument, planning to rape and rob your village, and perhaps let some live to tell the tale, but you get the picture I'm shure)...

So, appart from this very wize and universal rule when dealing with firearms, I thought of a second 'truth' that I think is kind of what it's about, and would like to display it someday. It goes like this: "A gun is a tool which is correctly used when you do not have to use it against another person. But, as some people do not use their guns correctly one must be ready for the unthinkable"... (Or something to that effect).

I'm from Finland, the EU, and my views arent so popular, even though I do not glorify violence, and havent been into anykind of fight since I was about 15 (I'm 37 now).

You can send my regards to that man, and put him into the position of having to live in a cituation where criminals are more often armed than not, would he be willing to be shot and have possible family or friends shot too just because he isnt planning to murder anybody???

Meaning, his argument is just plain bad logic, and he is trying to get under your skin... Also, apart form self defense gun culture, there is a plethora of interesting sports out there involving firearms, and in Europe you can get a composite bow, without a license, and easily kill somebody with it. Now, are all Olympic bow champions murder suspects I ask of him???

Yours truly, Mr Poundr.

P.S. Here are some of the beautiful guns made by European gun manufacturers (wherever their factories might be nowadays)... So why the finger pointing? I admit that the US and some Central American counties I have travelled in have high murder rates, but I'm still here, and I think that it's often a question of what one gets involved in that puts one at risk rather than just living in a certain country.

That aside, tragedies like say the Colombine shootings are awful, and I cannot think of a better idea than armed guards, after all, in Central America, certain places have armed guards with German high firepower assault weapons and bodyarmour in front of every shop ect worth a penny! (I mean it, from Pizza hut, to the banks)!

 

[The Viking]

But fortunately I'm Swiss not European

Too bad you guys are joining Schengen. Stock up and hide as much as you can. Have a few "official" guns for the day when They come to take them.

 

[The Viking]

For what its worth, not all euro's are anti-gun. Though I've only met a few (two that I can think of) who oppose the whole licensing thing and all that.
I'm sickened of this continent, and I want to move to the US. I signed up for the Green Card lottery last year. No luck . Biggest disappointment I've been through in my entire life .

 

[Waitone]

All you shooters from across the pond. . . . . keep posting and letting the Yanks know what reality is. What we have here in the US is the exception, not the rule. Sometimes we forget to be appreciative of what we have in favor of bellyaching over what we don't have.

Mr. 17poundr, well put!!!

 

[230RN]

Every time I see a movie (or hear about it in actuality) where marauding bands of pillagers raid a village and the people are screaming and running away in terror, I wonder what would have happened if every lowly villager had a lowly .22 rifle and a box of lowly .22LRs.

(Best of luck next time, Viking!)

 

[The Viking]

All you shooters from across the pond. . . . . keep posting and letting the Yanks know what reality is. What we have here in the US is the exception, not the rule. Sometimes we forget to be appreciative of what we have in favor of bellyaching over what we don't have.

Mr. 17poundr, well put!!!

What reality is like? Pure h€ll. A guy was convicted of assault some time ago, for bashing in the head of another fellow with the handle of a car jack...the fellow who just happened to be beating the crap out of a woman at the time. What kind of a sick society would sentence him to 1 year in prison? The Swedish, to start with.
I figure that I should get a good degree in something, and then try to move over. Most of Europe is doomed anyway.

 

[The Viking]

Every time I see a movie (or hear about it in actuality) where marauding bands of pillagers raid a village and the people are screaming and running away in terror, I wonder what would have happened if every lowly villager had a lowly .22 rifle and a box of lowly .22LRs.

(Best of luck next time, Viking!)

Thanks. Though I'm going to college/university soon I hope. I just don't know what to study right now . (My grades from high school weren't the greatest. Figure I could get into something that actually leads to a job though. Atleast I hope).

 

[obxned]

Politely remind this guy that Germany did try total gun control in the 1930's. There are more than 12 million dead folks who discovered it was a very bad idea.

 

[Texshooter]

Laughing should work.

 

[ilcylic]

"Also; gun owners will state that guns are necessary to rise up to their government if necessary. It occurs to me that it has never been more necessary than in the last eight years, going from the amount of damage the US has done to international relationships and wars. But where were all the gun-toting citizens? Despite your guns, you are just as codependent and harmless of and to the government as the rest of us are."

Yeah, that's what I've been fearing too.

 

[budney]

"Also; gun owners will state that guns are necessary to rise up to their government if necessary. It occurs to me that it has never been more necessary than in the last eight years, going from the amount of damage the US has done to international relationships and wars. But where were all the gun-toting citizens? Despite your guns, you are just as codependent and harmless of and to the government as the rest of us are."

There are those of us who consider the last sixteen years a complete abomination. But it's quite a switch to worry about a bad guy getting hurted, and then suddenly call for Americans to rise up in civil war, isn't it? Armed insurrection is the last resort of desperate men; it's a bit breathtaking to hear someone say, "Put your money where your mouth is and shoot your President."

--Len.

 

[jefnvk]

I don't say run away. Seems that the guy doesnt have a problem with weapons, but at the same time can't understand why someone would want them.

Actually sounds like you may have a chance to do good, to enlighten him.

 

[Gary Frost]

I don't think these foreign antis understand SD, protection from a guberment gone bad, ccw or any other pro firearms responce. I would tell this anti person that each week 10's of million americans go to their favorite range, send perhaps 10's of million rounds downrange without as much as a scratch. Its not about killing anything

 

[koja48]

Never forget the old adage that is applicable when tempted to argue with avowed antis in an effort to change their minds: "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and just pisses-off the pig." Some arguments/debates are un-winnable.

 

[ConfuseUs]

Yeah it's true that it's a waste of time to teach pigs to sing. However I think that here it is more a matter of wrestling a pig: you get muddy and the pig has a good time. The Euro is having a grand ol' time flaunting his supposed cultural and political superiority to at least one poor backwards American.

 

[Black Adder LXX]

Here's some reasons to not waste your time:

A whip for the horse, a halter for the donkey, and a rod for the backs of fools!
Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself.
Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes.
Like cutting off one's feet or drinking violence is the sending of a message by the hand of a fool.
Like a lame man's legs that hang limp is a proverb in the mouth of a fool.
Like tying a stone in a sling is the giving of honor to a fool.
Like a thornbush in a drunkard's hand is a proverb in the mouth of a fool.
Like an archer who wounds at random is he who hires a fool or any passer-by.
As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly.

Proverbs 26:3-11

 

[crankshop1000]

We are what we are...the most free nation in the history of the world. As soon as we realize that we cannot force our freedom and democratic society on every other country, we will be even better.Europe has more than it's share of problems and when the Muslim versus Christian war begins in earnest, the original citizens will regret going along with this anti gun B.S.JMHO Chuck.

 

[doubleg]

Almost all Europeans hate Americans.

They hate the idea of a nation of immigrants.

They hate that we are the richest country.

They hate that we deserve credit for helping them during ww2.

They hate how we refuse to go along with their anti gun policies.

They hate how we stood up to terrorism instead of running away with our tales between our legs.

They hate the idea of civilians being armed and taking care of themselves, with out the government monitoring everything.


Europeans hate America and everything about Americans, there is no reasoning with them.

 

[17poundr]

Hey, easy going there mr doubleg! I hear a tint of hate in your post... Sarcasm is good, and welcome, but let's not get too carried away.

I'm a citizen of two European countries (UK and FIN if somebody must know), and all I can say is that not everybody hates the Americans, also much of the hatred is for the US foreign policy, not US people or even US state laws (exept when on the topic of gun control), which is amuzing in Finland as we have something like two and a half million firearms in a country with a population of five million! This is ofcourse mostly to do with hunting, Britain on the other hand is really a b***h, as getting to own a handgun is pretty much impossible.

Also, in Britain the supposed anti Americanism is clearly lesser than in say, certain Scandinavian countries... But get a nice US man or woman over here, and all the boys and girls will be most interested in , eh, 'meeting' him/her...

(But here in Finland it can be done, although they make it unduely complicated, and any excuse to deny such a permit is used, also the fact of getting a gun of your own differs totally as to where one applies for a permit, and we are supposed to have a national policy for these matters)!

Oh, and nevermind the fact that almost all gun crime is committed by illegal handguns, or drunken guys in the countryside getting their shotguns out after an argument, both cases give proof that giving a guy a permit for a handgun, so that he can go on and participate in practical shooting isnt a menace to society at all... Sigh.. :banghead: