Thumper5
Member
Those of you who are afraid of the danger of firing shotgun (pellet) rounds into the air should surely not ever come out to our duck lake. You could get kilt!
How stupid can people be?
- Thread starter Huddog
- Start date
- Status
Thanks, I thought my posts were invisable. I swear we'll hash out anything.
Just for the record I did leave babies out stratedically placed at midnight.
I have been hit by shotgun pellets. Didn't hurt.
Is it possible the single barrel was a riflled barrel though?
Anyway with shotguns you can cut the plastic tip and empty the pellets.
I've shot the plastic wad through drywall. Just be careful if you shoot it in the air (kidding)
Just for the record I did leave babies out stratedically placed at midnight.
I have been hit by shotgun pellets. Didn't hurt.
Is it possible the single barrel was a riflled barrel though?
Anyway with shotguns you can cut the plastic tip and empty the pellets.
I've shot the plastic wad through drywall. Just be careful if you shoot it in the air (kidding)
orionengnr
Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Messages
- 5,717
Logical fallacy.
Yes, people die on the freeway. Driving is not inherintly stupid.
A truer analogy is driving drunk. That kills innocent people through a stupid, unnecessary act.
BYW, give it a day or two, someone will be along to claim that $100 bill. Hardly a New Years, July 4th or Cinco de Mayo passes when I don't hear about someone catching a falling bullet. Often enough a child, and occasionally fatal.
(subscribes to post
)I find myself trying to become less jaded and less cynical.
It is a detoxifying effort. The question the crosses my mind is, "My God. How long is this going to take?".
As for stupidity. It might be better to suffer your own stupidity than suffer the stupidity of someone else.
It is a detoxifying effort. The question the crosses my mind is, "My God. How long is this going to take?".
As for stupidity. It might be better to suffer your own stupidity than suffer the stupidity of someone else.
That's not true. It is perfectly legal to shoot a weapon in the city in my state, and probably most others.
So it's only illegal if you shoot at someone or someone's property. Notice it says nothing about firing into the air.
And, for the record, people who automatically assume the sound of a gunshot is a bullet being fired into the air are just as stupid as those who actually fire bullets into the air. You have no idea if they were blanks, or even if they were pointed up. How do you know they aren't shooting the ground? If you were watching them shoot straight up then you are close enough to go ask them not to and explain why it's unsafe.
I use to have access to good dove hunting property. Use to go out with #6 or #7.5 shot shells, and so did my friends. I have been out there, maybe seventy yards from my friends when pellets they had shot at doves came down on me. Mind you they were shooting up, so the stuff came down at a decent angle. It felt like rain drops. 
I doubt the stuff had enough terminal velocity to pit glass.
Of course I do not want to find out what would happen with slugs or buck shot. I have read a number of accounts where soliders were hit by "spent" minie balls, and met a guy who was hit by a spent AK47 round. The accounts say the rounds bruised, and the guy hit by the AK round said if was like a bee sting.
Hatcher's notebook has experiments he ran on shooting bullets in the air to find out what happens. He shows pictures of a machine gun on a tower in Dayton Beach FL. They walked the rounds in from the water to the beach. Also shows who much Florida has changed since the 1920's, I doubt there is a square foot on the waterfront now that is not occupied by a condo or a hotel.
I doubt the stuff had enough terminal velocity to pit glass. Of course I do not want to find out what would happen with slugs or buck shot. I have read a number of accounts where soliders were hit by "spent" minie balls, and met a guy who was hit by a spent AK47 round. The accounts say the rounds bruised, and the guy hit by the AK round said if was like a bee sting.
Hatcher's notebook has experiments he ran on shooting bullets in the air to find out what happens. He shows pictures of a machine gun on a tower in Dayton Beach FL. They walked the rounds in from the water to the beach. Also shows who much Florida has changed since the 1920's, I doubt there is a square foot on the waterfront now that is not occupied by a condo or a hotel.
thexrayboy
Member
Never underestimate the power of stupid people, especially in large numbers.
It was stupid people in large numbers voting that has produced the current
enormous, inefficient, malevolent, evil force that we call "the government".
In fact, the only reason we still have even a modicum of freedom is due to the size and inefficency of the federal government. If they were to find a way to get their s**t wired together and become efficient they could probably reduce the Constitution to a historical oddity in record time.
People who fire guns into the air randomly are idiots. Plain and simple, no other way to describe them. It is an act that cannot be justified no matter what rationale is used.
Hardtarget
Member
First...any one that has ever hunted dove has had shot pellets fall on them. I've "been there, done that" so many times it doesn't register any more. IF...repeat...IF the guy was shooting #6 or smaller bird shot there is very little to worry about.Bigger than #2 or BB the worry starts.
Don't mistake this...I'm NOT saying its safe...its just not the same as shooting a 150 gr bullet.
Now, how stupid can people be? Unbelieveably so. Just look around any time you're out.
Mark.
Don't mistake this...I'm NOT saying its safe...its just not the same as shooting a 150 gr bullet.
Now, how stupid can people be? Unbelieveably so. Just look around any time you're out.
Mark.
Free Expression?!
Just wondering about that little bit a paper that assures Free Expression?! Don't know. Maybe I'm wrong.
Of course, I freely expressed myself to a pheasant the other day. Guess he felt I shouldn't have fired #6 shot into the air, but it didn't hit him in the eye...rather the polar opposite of its anatomy.
Seriously, I don't know why people do this other than free expression. It can be dangerous to be certain. It is truthfully one of the reasons we purchased a brick home rather than stick-built and sided.
Doc2005
Just wondering about that little bit a paper that assures Free Expression?! Don't know. Maybe I'm wrong.
Of course, I freely expressed myself to a pheasant the other day. Guess he felt I shouldn't have fired #6 shot into the air, but it didn't hit him in the eye...rather the polar opposite of its anatomy.
Seriously, I don't know why people do this other than free expression. It can be dangerous to be certain. It is truthfully one of the reasons we purchased a brick home rather than stick-built and sided.
Doc2005
gulogulo1970
Member
Well, if it was bird shot, big if, I can't think of anything in the real ammunition realm that would be safer to shoot into the air.
LightningJoe
Member
Shooting guns into the air as a form of celebration is definitely linked to low IQ. It's similar to marrying a 1st cousin: Traditional among certain kinds of people, but not recommended.
orionengnr
Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Messages
- 5,717
And typically, those who are put at risk are innocent. Good analogy.
We've been discussing two topics.
1. Is it a good idea to randomly fire guns into the air. I think we're all agreed that this is a bad idea.
2. What is the effect of various falling projectiles. This topic is apparently not well understood.
As regards #2, ANY falling object which does not have an engine (i.e. unpowered) and which didn't enter the atmosphere with a significant amount of velocity to begin with will accelerate to its terminal velocity under the force of gravity and then will not accelerate further due to air resistance.
The terminal velocity of an object depends on its weight, its cross-sectional area and its coefficient of drag.
Some objects will fall very fast due to their aerodynamics and will attain a terminal velocity that makes them dangerous. Other objects may have a terminal velocity low enough that they will not be dangerous when they hit the ground.
1. Is it a good idea to randomly fire guns into the air. I think we're all agreed that this is a bad idea.
2. What is the effect of various falling projectiles. This topic is apparently not well understood.
As regards #2, ANY falling object which does not have an engine (i.e. unpowered) and which didn't enter the atmosphere with a significant amount of velocity to begin with will accelerate to its terminal velocity under the force of gravity and then will not accelerate further due to air resistance.
The terminal velocity of an object depends on its weight, its cross-sectional area and its coefficient of drag.
Some objects will fall very fast due to their aerodynamics and will attain a terminal velocity that makes them dangerous. Other objects may have a terminal velocity low enough that they will not be dangerous when they hit the ground.
WinchesterAA
Member
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2006
- Messages
- 870
Thumper5 =)
cold, early, no ducks in sight, bored and plenty of ammo to waste... steel rain baby, steel rain!
cold, early, no ducks in sight, bored and plenty of ammo to waste... steel rain baby, steel rain!
wildburp
member
Glad I started this
What goes up can come down and kill you. While gunpowder is required for the trip up, the friction of the travel through the barrel is not added to the trip downward. When one understands the forces to go up, the return trip is not puzzling, because they are both controlled by a universal force called gravity, which is not a variable (for all practical purposes) in a closed (isolotated from other galaxys) system. See?
The real unanswered question is what makes all these forces come together for the party on Saturday night?
Projectiles do not tumble on the way down; they stablize and go back down point first. They are sharp that way, unlike some here that think they loose lateral stability and fall out of control.
Glad to argue the point anytime,
wb
What goes up can come down and kill you. While gunpowder is required for the trip up, the friction of the travel through the barrel is not added to the trip downward. When one understands the forces to go up, the return trip is not puzzling, because they are both controlled by a universal force called gravity, which is not a variable (for all practical purposes) in a closed (isolotated from other galaxys) system. See?
The real unanswered question is what makes all these forces come together for the party on Saturday night?
Projectiles do not tumble on the way down; they stablize and go back down point first. They are sharp that way, unlike some here that think they loose lateral stability and fall out of control.
Glad to argue the point anytime,
wb
Geronimo45
Member
"go back down point first" Some may - but I'm pretty sure that the heavy end will be the one going down first, unless you shoot at an angle.
Without an atmosphere, the bullet ought to be going at the same speed it left the gun when it hits the ground. Air friction will reduce the speed of descent to something below MV.
Without an atmosphere, the bullet ought to be going at the same speed it left the gun when it hits the ground. Air friction will reduce the speed of descent to something below MV.
RNB65
Member
There's no reason to argue. You're wrong and that's just the way it is. I'll leave it up to you to figure out why.
Sorry.
That thinking works when it comes to simple schoolhouse physics, but in real life wind resistance must be considered.What goes up must come down
Just think about it, M118 7.62x51 has a muzzle energy of ~2250, but after 1000 yards, that energy drops to about 550. While I'm not sure how far up a such a bullet would travel, you have to keep in mind that it undergoes twice that distance of resistance(up and down). Basically, as MythBusters demonstrated, a bullet will return to earth at or below its terminal velocity, which can barely penetrate ~1" into soil.
and btw, orionengnr, your statement was a red herring. Fear is a reaction to danger. It's perfectly logical to say that someone who is afraid of one thing should be afraid of all other things that are more dangerous. The stupidity of an action is irrelevant.
Earth is surrounded by the atmosphere which is composed of air. Air provides resistance to moving objects and that resistance must be considered for any careful analysis of moving objects. In this particular analysis, air resistance is a major contributor and neglecting it will provide an answer that is absolutely and impressively incorrect.
Bullets fired straight up can either stay stabilized and fall back down BASE first or they may lose stabilization and fall back tumbling. Both of these modes have been verified in ACTUAL experiments so there's really no room for debate. Projectiles fired straight up will not fall back POINT first unless they are aerodynamically stabilized (rather than spin stabilized) and are not spinning. Bullets do NOT behave like lawn darts.
Should be noted that different bullets will have different terminal velocities--perhaps significantly different velocities. In addition, whether or not a bullet remains spin stabilized all the way to impact will have a significant effect on terminal velocity. Hatcher's testing showed that at least some rifle bullets remain spin stabilized and hit base first.
TX_Shooter
Member
...........and I thought I was stupid to piss outside @ 11:58 PM on New Years eve right next to my ac unit. Hey,,, I think it was to much beer
Working Man
Member
On the news they reported a woman in the DFW area who had the bones
in her hand broken by a falling bullet. There was also a church that reported
bullets dropping through their roof.
Even if it is just shot I don't want it chipping up the paint job on my truck.
People are foolish sometimes. I even had someone suggesting I do the same to celebrate, but I proceeded to lecture about it being unsafe.
Though I must say some of the arguments here bring up interesting points of many projectiles being less than lethal from ideal trajectories, you cannot expect people to fire the proper weight projectile at the proper angle when shooting into the air. A 45 degree angle would still be up into the air and will still retain much more than terminal velocity and be quite dangerous potentialy when it comes back down with what would otherwise be an unlethal specimen with an ideal trajectory.
Even if done 'properly', throwing rocks by hand at random objects would not be acceptable, why would a high FPS metal object hitting random things be acceptable?
Lets be responsible owners, I hate having people feel required to pass laws about everything because others cannot have common sense. Gambling with your own life, safety, or property is one thing. When you decide to gamble with others' property or safety your infringing upon thier rights. Your rights entitle you to liberty up to the point where they infringe on the next man's rights to enjoy thier own rights.
Though I must say some of the arguments here bring up interesting points of many projectiles being less than lethal from ideal trajectories, you cannot expect people to fire the proper weight projectile at the proper angle when shooting into the air. A 45 degree angle would still be up into the air and will still retain much more than terminal velocity and be quite dangerous potentialy when it comes back down with what would otherwise be an unlethal specimen with an ideal trajectory.
Even if done 'properly', throwing rocks by hand at random objects would not be acceptable, why would a high FPS metal object hitting random things be acceptable?
Lets be responsible owners, I hate having people feel required to pass laws about everything because others cannot have common sense. Gambling with your own life, safety, or property is one thing. When you decide to gamble with others' property or safety your infringing upon thier rights. Your rights entitle you to liberty up to the point where they infringe on the next man's rights to enjoy thier own rights.
repsychler
Member
I can't believe people are defending this.
I've had shot rain down on me, while hunting. In the field it's expected and I deal with it, not at home.
Even if the risk is infinitesimally small, why take any risk at all (and violate the 4 rules) just so you can be a stupid redneck jackhole on New Years?
I've had shot rain down on me, while hunting. In the field it's expected and I deal with it, not at home.
Even if the risk is infinitesimally small, why take any risk at all (and violate the 4 rules) just so you can be a stupid redneck jackhole on New Years?
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
