How to argue with an anti-gun parent?

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With family it's better not to discuss divisive topics. Back in the 70's when I was in college and knew everything, my Dad and I would argue about politics for hours. We could talk calmly about anything but politics. Yet, I would bring it up every chance I got. What a waste of time and energy.

As I sit here writing this, I have tears running down my face because my Dad died 4 years ago and I still miss being able to talk to him. Life is too short to spend it arguing.

Treasure the time you have with your parents and don't waste it.
 
GEM nailed it hard. Education is the real method, some people just will never agree on much of anything. Heck I sometimes don't agree with what I thought last week!

The best you can do IMHO is prove to him you are responsible enough to handle the potential risks, and expect it to take YEARS IF he does ever warm any to the idea.

We all have rights, they end (ok, become reasonably restricted) when they intrude on other's reasonable excercise of their rights.

But don't expect me to accept me to kindly accept me being told I can not....
 
As he most often does, GEM offered some great advice.

You can't argue with your parents and "win". You'll always be their child. The emotional connections preclude an objective discussion.

If you're living at home, they have the right to say what goes on in it. If you're on your own . . . hey dude, you're on your own. :D You can eat cold pizza every day for breakfast; turn your underwear inside out instead of washing it; and rent "Girls Gone Wild" videos every night if you want. Why have a discussion that you know will turn into an argument? Just do go your thing.


Maybe someday your actions will persuade them otherwise. But not an argument.
 
trying to argue this point with someone that has been traumatized is kinda pointless. respect your parents and ask them to read the constitution and remind them how this country got it's start..
 
when I was a kid I had to talk my parents into letting me own guns. They weren't anti but subscribed to the belief of what would you need one for?
I argue with my parents all the time. We are able to seperate emotion from logic. though our arguments get heated sometimes including name calling, logic always wins out.

I believe respect should be earned as well as a 12yr old I was smarter and more knowledgeble at some subjects then my parents(not as many as I thought though)

It really depends how your relationship works with them. If My father ever said that to me I would honestly tell him that was one of the dumbest things I ever heard and if he objected I'd ask him for evidence but thats me

I do agree with the their house their rules though. you can argue but don't break the rules
 
I'd avoid arguing, and let your actions speak for themselves. If you do own a gun, just drop the subject, and at some point, it will occur to them: "Hmm, that's odd. Nothing bad has happened like I thought would."
If you live with them, and they won't allow it, I think you're out of luck until you move out. Once you do, make your own decision on it, and go back to recommendation number one.
 
It has been my experience that people who are rabid, die hard, anti's are of that position due to an emotional/physical trauma that has left them emotionally dysfunctional. I would say that most people like this you really can't reason with. Something either clicks in their head one day and they open up mentally/emotionally and become open to other views, or they simply just continue to go around emotionally oblivious to the truth and seeing the world through their own skewed reality. A dysfunction like this, however it was caused, is a very deep seated emotional problem that a simple argument likely can't break through.
 
I agree with all those of have said "educate them", vice arguing with them. Here is a fantastic resource:

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/ccw/rage.htm

Stay calm and cool and who knows, maybe one day a light bulb will flicker on. But that may be years or even decades from now, if it happens at all.

after re-reading, that quote of what your dad said about individual with training vs. cohesion kind of shows that he is not the kind of person to argue with on the subject.

That is easily one of the most anti-individual, single-minded things I've ever heard this week. You really don't want to argue with that, or the name-calling will ensue from both sides. He's never going to see any compromise on the gun rights, if that is how he feels about our society.

True. Though none of us are perfect, and we all have some amount of sin within us, your father seems to have a pretty dim, pessimistic view of others. I know you said he is a flaming lib; it sounds like he's got some commie in him too ;) .

“[the police] operate in social situations that come with codes of honor, notions of duty, interdependence, etc, that are always being reinforced, in subtle and not so subtle ways, while an individual, even with impeccable training, is still an individual… Social pressure can help some groups to respect gun use, rather than abuse it… A cohesive group can keep individuals in line better than an individual can keep an individual in line”

Hmmm, if this were true, how did Waco and Ruby Ridge happen? Or how about Hitler's Germany, Stalin's USSR, Mao Zedong's China or Pol Pot's Cambodia? Codes of honor, notions of duty and interdependence played a central roll within Nazi Germany in particular. Many violent gangs are built around the same basic principles as well.

The problem is that some people are just plain bad, and such people will always exist. And unless the good people stand up to the bad ones, eventually the bad ones will be crawling all over us. Just look at congress! :neener:
 
Funny,

I was in a similar argument with my parents and more specifically with my father, yesterday evening. Although our argument was not about whether or not they would allow us (me and my brother, he is 18, I'm 21) to buy a gun for plinking and target shooting. A .22 rifle or something. Because we KNOW we will never have their permission. They are just too stubborn about this (and have every right to).

However, yesterday evening I was trying to launch a discussion about why they had something against guns. They didn’t seem to base their “no” on anything, and I would have liked to know their reasoning. Because, although young adults as my brother and I tend to think we know everything better than our parents, our parents do have the advantage of experience. And therefore, they might have a logic or reasoning not yet understood by us...

Although I cannot remember too much from the discussion, because it became quickly very heated, when I asked my father directly, what he had against guns, he said the following: “What are guns made for? I will tell you, their only purpose is to kill, to destroy. Therefore I can never accept this in my house, or have anything to do with it.” Now, I can hear you all thinking that my father/family is one of those families not willing to accept that the meat from the butcher does not come from some tree. Well, you wouldn’t be farther from the truth. We actually own animals, that we kill and clean ourselves, but apparently, using a gun to shoot an animal is too much...

Another thing he said was the following, and you won’t like this: “People buy guns for two reasons, either to kill, for example when out hunting, or either to have sense of power, to feel better than another person.” Well, I really couldn’t say anything by now. Cause either I’m a barbaric madman, ready for destruction, or I’m a two-bit loser on a power trip.
To finish off, they gave an example, trying to change my view upon gun ownership: “What if, some time in the future, when you have your own kids and a wife and you do decide to buy a gun. Or even a couple of guns, and you always treat them with care, lock them away and use all safety precautions, just like you are telling us you would do. And some day, your wife, who has a small depression, decides to turn one of your guns on herself. What will you do the next day? I will tell you what you will do, you will throw away all your silly guns and blame yourself forever why you didn’t listen to your parents!”

What can I reply to that????

Anyway, as some have suggested here, it is indeed probably the best thing, to never bring it up again. And just buy a gun, once I live on my own.
 
How did you come to your opinion about guns? You are lucky that you we not indoctrinated in their way of thinking, or scared to do so. Way to think for yourself.
 
Kinda reminds me of the old saying, liberals think with their hearts, conservatives think with their minds. Hense that kind of gun logic. IMO
 
You seldom change anyone's opinions. You might win an immediate argument with facts, but their deep seated opinion, regardless of your argument will usually remain. You are probably wasting your time.
 
Vertigo:

sounds like your parents are tough to have a reasonable discussion with. To try to explain to your father that guns are for more than just crazy killers is far gone but he is right about power. My fiance has more power when she is armed and confronting a 6-4 250lb bad guy than when she is not. The same goes for my grandfather who is in his eighties. The reasons for the beliefs are unknown but probably come form many sources.

As far as your depressive wife using a gun to kill herself that is a ridiculous question. If your responsible then the combo to the gunsafe would be changed at the first notion of a problem.

ask your parents this, then following their logic if the same situation where to occur without a gun what should you do? If she hangs herself should you rid the world of rope, jumps of a building then we destroy anything with more than a 5 foot drop, overdose- destroy all medications and poisons, cuts her wrists- get rid of everything sharp. My point is if your wife really had depression then that is the time to be proactive and not blame an innanimate object for the course your wifes depression took.
 
Another thing he said was the following, and you won’t like this: “People buy guns for two reasons, either to kill, for example when out hunting, or either to have sense of power, to feel better than another person.” Well, I really couldn’t say anything by now. Cause either I’m a barbaric madman, ready for destruction, or I’m a two-bit loser on a power trip.
People don't want others to have guns for two reasons:

1. They have it in their nature to be victims and don't want anything to interfere with that..

2. They have it in their nature to make other people victims and don't want anything to interfere with that.

Victim or victimizer, the two motivations for gun control. It makes as much sense (if not more) than his argument.
 
@ Grassman:

How did you come to your opinion about guns? You are lucky that you we not indoctrinated in their way of thinking, or scared to do so. Way to think for yourself.

Well, as any other kid, we grew up playing with toy guns we made ourselves from scrap metal we welded together (yes at age 12 and 14) And since we have always been interested in (military) history and sciences, we naturally have always been interested in fire arms. To conclude, when I was 16 or 17 and my brother 15 or something, my father got invited by a friend of his to go for a clay pigeon shooting session, and we were invited as well. Ever since that day, I have wanted to buy my own fire arm.

@ByAnyMeans,

ask your parents this, then following their logic if the same situation where to occur without a gun what should you do? If she hangs herself should you rid the world of rope, jumps of a building then we destroy anything with more than a 5 foot drop, overdose- destroy all medications and poisons, cuts her wrists- get rid of everything sharp. My point is if your wife really had depression then that is the time to be proactive and not blame an innanimate object for the course your wifes depression took.

Thats, what I said, they told me it is not the same thing, and I'm ignorant for not seeing/admitting the difference.

So we're back to square one... :p

greetz,

V.
 
Vertigo your parents (no offense) sound like they discuss things like my little nephew. The conversation ussually goes like this " I'm right cause i say so and your wrong cause your a doodyhead." He then precedes to stick his fingers in his ears and babble until you stop trying to talk to him. There is no disucssion their and to continue to try to persuade them is useless. Wait till you move out and whenever they come to visit make sure your cleaning all your guns when they arrive, but in a safe way to display your responsible.
 
Hey Vertigo, I just saw you were from Belgium? What's the public opinion on guns over there? Forgive me. I know nothing about the gun climate over there,or if it's already been covered. Thanks.
 
@Grassman

Hey Vertigo, I just saw you were from Belgium? What's the public opinion on guns over there? Forgive me. I know nothing about the gun climate over there,or if it's already been covered. Thanks.

Should I be doing this in this thread or another one?

I'll give a short answer here anyway:

People in Belgium are generally afraid of guns, they see it as something completely useless in this day society, something only crazy people, "gun-nuts" will buy. Or in the case of hunting, as a very elitist sport. And because of some idiot two years ago, who bought a double barreled shotgun in a gunstore, went outside and started shooting (one single event like this in decades...) we now have some of the strictest gun control laws in Europe...

V.
 
Rodentman said:
I don't argue with anyone about it. I have my rights.

My kids don't agree with my carrying. They don't like going to the range with me even though I have tried to interest them in shooting.

When I die they'll inherit the guns and can dispose of them if they wish.

Maybe you should figure out a way to use your guns to arm some single mothers in need of protection or something rather than allowing your firearms to become manhole covers.
Just a thought...


Grassman said:
Kinda reminds me of the old saying, liberals think with their hearts, conservatives think with their minds. Hense that kind of gun logic. IMO
FWIW, in spite of all the logical arguments that we gunowers toss around, I think that a lot of us also base our decisions on emotion.
I am a student of history. Throughout history there have been several examples where the government first disarmed the population and then set to work systematically exterminating some of it's citizens.
Quite frankly, the thought of that ever happening in my country absolutely terrifies the hell out of me. That's one of the biggest reasons that I own guns.
It's based entirely on emotion and I'm OK with that.
 
GEM has got it. With any Anti I have ever debated with all the logic in the world will not effect their opinion. And most of the time they abandon the stating facts approach and start insulting me trying to get me to argue. Its best just to leave it alone. If you can get them to open their minds you can talk to them that rarly happens.
 
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Our country is slowly moving toward the Belgium, Great Britian, or Australia model with regard to gun ownership from a populist point of view. Eventually, some court decision will be made and the well financed anti-gunners will push it up to the Surpreme Court and they will get their decision just like Roe vs Wade. The first to fall will be the "assault weapons", the second will be handguns, and then it will be all guns except the least potent ones such as the in Australia. The elite will continue to get their firearms and will amass huge gun collections even if they are technically unlawful. Tis the way things work. The regular guy or girl looses. People say there are three classes in America, but there really are only two; Rich and Powerless. I don't like the alternatives however.

My Dad and I don't talk politics any more. We disagree vehemently. With guns we have some agreement until we get to EBR's. As I said before, he finds no place in the USA for them to exist as a reasonable firearm to own for other than conducting war. Hunting.... nope. Who needs a gun that can shoot 20 rounds in 5 seconds for deer hunting. Target shooting..... wasteful and un-necessary. Self defense.... many other better choices for civilians from his perspective. When the "war" starts, he will feel differently. But that is unlikely to happen anytime soon.

I have enjoyed this thread and it was nice to see it re-appear.
 
Although I cannot remember too much from the discussion, because it became quickly very heated, when I asked my father directly, what he had against guns, he said the following: “What are guns made for? I will tell you, their only purpose is to kill, to destroy. Therefore I can never accept this in my house, or have anything to do with it.”

That's the issue, right there. Sometimes things need destroying. The world is not a happy place where hopes and dreams will fix everything. Sure, destructive force may not be considered elegant (although it is to some), but that makes it no less necessary in certain situations. The goal of a responsible gun owner is to maintain sound judgment so that you know when and where such use of destructive force is required for the greater good.


To finish off, they gave an example, trying to change my view upon gun ownership: “What if, some time in the future, when you have your own kids and a wife and you do decide to buy a gun. Or even a couple of guns, and you always treat them with care, lock them away and use all safety precautions, just like you are telling us you would do. And some day, your wife, who has a small depression, decides to turn one of your guns on herself. What will you do the next day? I will tell you what you will do, you will throw away all your silly guns and blame yourself forever why you didn’t listen to your parents!”

If my wife was depressed enough to take her own life, the last thing on my mind would be the means she used to those ends. I'd more likely be blaming myself for not caring more about her, not talking to her more, not being more sensitive, etc.. but how would owning a gun make me feel any more guilty than owning a kitchen knife, a razor blade, or a rope?
 
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