How to choose a Fighting Rifle

[spurrit]

Man! You guys are WEARING OUT my B.S. detector!!!

Okay, I realise that some of you guys spend a LOT of time jerking it to gun and ammo, and playing sniper in the back yard, but GIMME A BREAK! Low brass IS lower powered than high brass! Also, as far as what I said about aiming being a non-issue, at houshold ranges, instinctive aiming for someone who is proficientw/a shotgun will be more than adequate.

As for the sound of racking the slide; I am a responsible gun owner, and parent of a small child, who, occassionally gets sick, wakes up scared, or just wants to come into my bedroom in the middle of the night to make absolutely sertain that I have no sex life. THAT is why I suggested the clipfed semi-auto. I keep it unloaded, with the clips in a handgun safe near the bed, which I can unlock via the hand shaped touchpad combo lock in the dark. You might consider the safety of children, sometime, you fruit of the ingnorant.

To whomever mentioned that there ARE .223/5.56 rounds that WON'T penetrate walls w/killing force:

Yes, I realise that the composite rounds that explode gophers so nicely explode gopers ARE more suitable for home defense, but, for the life of me, I can't seem to recall what they are called, as I never buy them, and, also, would not want to steer someone the wrong way, and be in any way responsible for innocents getting killed.

I believe, that, if you are going to offer someone advice, you need to be certain that you are not going to endanger them in any way, and, if you're not sure, to just not advise them, or tell them to find someone more knowledgeable to ask.
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Rant over. You may now return to your regularly scheduled prpogating of each other's "urban ninja B.S."

 

[Magnuumpwr]

After reading all the postings, I have noticed that not one person mentioned anything about magazine capacities. Let me see if I understand the thread. Picking out a battle rifle, personally I would prefer my AK-47 over my AR-15 and my AR-15 over any other rifle mentioned. The fact for this opinion is based on very high mag capacity. If you have a 75 to 100 rd drum versus a ton of 20 or 30 rd mags, which do you think will be easier to send more lead down range? These mags are plentiful and relatively cheap. Anyone seen any mags with a cap higher than 50 rds for a Fal or H&K (cetme)? If so, are they very plentiful? Let's get a big picture of this. Here is the scenario, you have a bad guy at 200 meters and he has good cover. You have an AK-47 with a 75 rd drum or an AR-15 with a 100 rd beta mag and the bad guy is packing multiple 20 to 30 rd mags. You setup, pick the cover he is behind and open fire (about 20 or so rds) then stop. What do you think he will do now? You keep trained in that area and when he returns fire, you own him. I maybe wrong but the less time you spend reloading, the more time you can spend concentrating on the battle!! Also, the thread was about battle rifles not home defense. How long do you need to wait to use a shotgun to return fire at someone using an AR-15 or an AK-47? :banghead: (Prime Example: NORTH HOLLYWOOD!!!!!!!!!!!) Does this ring any bells?

 

[itgoesboom]

Magnum,

The reason why you don't see many rifles in 7.62 with 50 rounds mags let alone 30 rounds mags is that they become very heavy with those mags.

Same reason why beta mags and 75 round drum mags aren't all that common, weight.

Not to mention that magazines like that are too big to go prone comfortably, and being prone allows you to get your head down, and reduce the chance of getting it shot off.

Quite honestly, 20 rounds is still a fair amount of lead going down range, and it balances the rifle nicely.

And remember that 7.62x51 will penetrate cover at 200 meters better than either 5.56 or 7.62x39, and it is less effected by wind as well.

There are trade offs here. You can't carry as many 7.62x51 as you can x39 and 5.56, but it has a longer effective range (how far out of a 16"bbl will a m193 round still have the velocity to tumble and fragment, 7.62x51 doesn't rely on that for its lethality), and penetrates cover better.

Also, 7.62x39 has a trajectory that looks like a rainbow, good luck hitting much beyond 300 meters with that.

So the reason why you didn't see anyone mention magazine capacity is that it's not all that important compared to the other criteria. Heck, some people prefer the M1 Garand, and that only has 8 rounds.

I.G.B.

 

[Magnuumpwr]

IMHO, these three will work just fine! The rifle in the first pic will get them looking for cover at over 1200 meters and the rifle in the second pic will help out to 200 and the pistol is for 100 and less.

 

[natedog]

Count me in the Garand category for now- I'm barred access from AR-15 type rifles, so I use the best available. The 8 rounds is fine considering how quickly you can reload, the accuracy, and power of the rifle- plus, they're cheap and handy.

 

[mustanger98]

natedog said:

Count me in the Garand category

Yeah. Me too. I live in a state where select fire weapons with mean looking features are legal. I still prefer the Garand.

 

[Fatelvis]

Just choose an M14.......

 

[Dienekes]

Agree with the original post. Reliability, reliability, and more reliability, combined with a sufficient degree of accuracy to get the work done. Most shooters cannot shoot up to their weapons in the first place, yet fantasize endlessly about the Perfect, Ultimately Cool Gun they are going to buy. Better an SKS or Lee-Enfield that you can use proficiently under field conditions than a loaded whatever you can't.

Sometimes less is more.

 

[bogie]

Oh hell... Gitcherself a boomstick, paint it black, and using special super stealthy paint, carefully scribe the word "takticul" on the side.

You're set.

 

[Caliburn]

Tire Iron: Great post. Thanks for taking the time to spell things out so carefully.

I don't know what some of the rest of you all are on about. He's talking about criteria that you can match to your situations.

Shotgun for home defense? Sure thing. For a combat situation (insert your personal favorite end of the world scenario here) use whatever you can according to the way you judge the criteria he suggests. Weapons have been chosen by the armies of the world for a reason, and I suspect thier reasons are pretty close to Tire Iron's (plus politics of course).

Still, I wouldn't want to oppose Ridge with his .22 if he knows how to use it, meaning working around it's limitations (which it sounds like he does). If all you have is a Mosin, great, use that, according to it's strengths (hard hitting, long range) and covering for it's weaknesses (not semi, 5 shot mag). If you want to plan ahead for whatever events just might possibly unfold someday (even if unlikely), do your homework, pay your money and make your choice. Then dance with what you brung.

For what it's worth, my choice is 12 gauge for intruders, and if the balloon goes up, AK for CQC and scoped FAL for distance.

 

[Maverick]

Nothing beats the good ole AK.
Mini 14 is ok for shooting coyotes around your property. But I would not trust my life to it. Any Ruger I owned so far was a pure "pain in the butt" to take apart. This is not acceptable for a military wannabe gun.

 

[mustanger98]

Any Ruger I owned so far was a pure "pain in the butt" to take apart. This is not acceptable for a military wannabe gun.

I've field stripped my Mini-14 with little or no trouble aside from the op-rod spring sliding in my hands during reassembly after I greased everything real good.

"Military wannabe gun"?

 

[student]

It amuses me that a gun with the same basic design as the almost godlike M14 or M1 Garand (including similar breakdown) gets trashed so much. I will freely admit that the accuracy of the mini-14 is not in the same ballpark as its parents, and that Ruger factory mags are hard to come by and aftermarket mags often suck. Both problems could have been readily fixed by Ruger, but were not. If they had, I wonder if there would be a two horse race for the .223 semi autos. But, for what it is it works just fine.
Mine happens to be my fantasy 'SHTF' BOB rifle (we all probably have one). It fits the bill for me as it is 100% reliable, lightweight, and accurate and powerful enough for a couple hundred yards. Sure I have others like the AK, M1, Mosin 44, rem 700, but they all have their limitations, mostly weight and size. These would serve me well if the flesh eating zombies ever attack me at my home in force (ie. good combat weapons....the point of this thread).

 

[itgoesboom]

Student,

The mini-14 is an example of an excellent idea, but piss poor execution.

I.G.B.