How To Not Shoot The Chrono

[CMV]

You'd be surprised the number of people who simply don't know that something like an AR with a lower 1/3 cowitness Aimpoint or similar setup is going to be almost 3" low real close. You just don't think about mechanical offset with a rifle often and a pistol hits right at POA at that distance, so easy mistake to make. I've known "gun guys" who had been shooting for decades not know it and be perplexed doing drills at 7-10 yds. That's probably bagged quite a few over the years

 

[LoonWulf]

OK, sorry to be confusing

^^^
This. I have a new chronograph. Not yet used. I just can't comprehend shooting the machine as opposed to shooting *over* it. Further


That's the question. If I have already sighted, close range, adjusted for sight height ... why be concerned. Wrong terminology ... why would I hit the chrono?
I haven't even used it yet. The original question is why would I be worried about hitting it? Yes, the new primer thread.

-jb, how hard is it to miss at 18 feet

How hard is it to miss at 6"s? A few of us have bounced bullets off our magneto speed bayonets attached to our barrels... Usually it's something small and stupid when you're dealing with chunks of lead traveling well over the speed of sound it doesn't take a whole lot to cause major damage. Thankfully at least one of us had there bayonet survive.


Most of the issues I think are people trying to shoot targets through the chronograph....
Like some of the other posters have said I just avoid shooting the chronograph and worry about targets later.
I've got two little pieces of bright yellow tape at the midpoints of my uprights and one centered on my chronographs body. As Long as the reticles lines are touching those three pieces of tape, pretty much no matter what I do the bullet's not going to hit the chronograph..... This is assuming I got the chronograph reasonably straight...

I also like taking readings of my magneto speed strapped to my barrel and my eyeball chrono downrange. That's been a bit interesting at times but mostly because setting up so you're actually looking straight through the skyscreens it's hard.

want some real excitement try chronographing arrows at 30 to 50 yards....

 

[H&R Glock]

I've fired hundreds of rounds over my ProChrono and managed to miss the grey box. I did, however, find on the bottom of the diffuser screen, a 2 inch long dark streak where it was grazed at some point in time.
This will start my search for the proper sized dowel rods. Thanks for the tip!

 

[GJeffB]

Loonwulf, thanks. I'm beginning to think what I say is not what is heard Especially when you mention

Most of the issues I think are people trying to shoot targets through the chronograph....

When I was considering that, I envisioned an aiming point rather than a "target." Clearly setting up a target at 50-100-whatever yards and shooting *that* through a tunnel is a wobbly proposition.

He wants some real excitement try chronographing arrows at 30 to 50 yards....

Again, on me. My idea of chonographing *any* projectile is through a chrono at no more than the expected 12-15'. 30-50 yards is where I would set up my "second" chronograph, the one I'd fully expect to shred some electronics

-jb, perhaps budgeting for 3 or 4 machines a year [j/k]

 

[papajoe222]

Hitting the chrono itself isn't a big problem, but hitting the metal shade supports can damage one beyond use. I use bamboo skewers and paint the lower two inches red. If I see red through my scope I adjust the tripod. On the off chance I hit a support, no harm done. Pistols are much easier as I only set up 10ft. from the muzzle.

 

[Swampman]

I've never actually "shot" one.

I did manage to centerpunch the readout screen on a Shooting Chrony with a sabot @ 20 years ago.

 

[halfmoonclip]

After 20-odd years, finally managed to shoot the electronic eye on an Oehler due to just what has been noted; the offset of a red dot. Luckily, the Oehler only has the screens downrange, and replacements were cheap.
Do most of my chrono work at an indoor range, and that means incandescent lights on the skyscreens. Never managed to shoot one of those, but the bulbs themselves are getting rare and expensive.
The Oehler gave the best results by keeping the bullets low over the eye, which made the chances of a disaster greater.
A buddy made me shoot his handloads thru' the chrono from his LCP, because he didn't want to be the one who shot the skyscreens.
There is an answer: LabRadar. Asked for one for Christmas two years ago. It gets much more use than the long-suffering Oehler simply because it is easy. No stringing cables for lights and the chrono, no meticulous lining things up, no worries about "Honey, I shot the chronograph". Yeah, they are expensive, but you should only ever need one.
Moon

 

[sparkyv]

There's two kinds of shooters, them that's shot their chrony and them that's gonna shoot their chrony. - Bum Phillips

 

[jmorris]

^ That saying has always bothered me.

At least “you’ll shoot your eye out.” Has the humorous attachment to the movie.

The implication is that is you have a gun you are going to shoot something unintentionally. Great reason why you shouldn’t own one....

 

[AK Hunter]

An easy way to not shoot your chrono for new users is to shoot on total cloudy days.(it has to be total cloud cover) Then you can take the defuser panels off & use four wooden dowels taped to the wires to shoot between by dropping the chrono down it gives you much more room. You can almost sit the chrono on the ground & shoot 2 to 3 ft above it.

 

[cfullgraf]

There's two kinds of shooters, them that's shot their chrony and them that's gonna shoot their chrony. - Bum Phillips

^ That saying has always bothered me.

At least “you’ll shoot your eye out.” Has the humorous attachment to the movie.

The implication is that is you have a gun you are going to shoot something unintentionally. Great reason why you shouldn’t own one....

That is a similar to a comment about pilots who fly retractable gear planes.

There are pilors who have landed gear up and those that will land gear up.

That is why my Cessna had its gear down and welded.

As chonogtaphs technology improved with more fool proof designs that minimized hitting the chronigraph, I’ve upgraded.

 

[unwashed]

An easy way to not shoot your chrono for new users is to shoot on total cloudy days.(it has to be total cloud cover) Then you can take the defuser panels off & use four wooden dowels taped to the wires to shoot between by dropping the chrono down it gives you much more room. You can almost sit the chrono on the ground & shoot 2 to 3 ft above it.

This is why I go to a range that's known for their Nazi Range Officers, they have a 20 ft wide overhang above the benches, great for rain and no sun for chrono's. I tried to use the other outdoor range that most guys go to for their more relaxed atmosphere and I shot the wire rods, never again will I do that, I will put up with the nazi.

 

[Skidmarx]

Most folks set up their target centered between the screens. That usually puts the center of the target closer to the bottom than the top of the "V" created by the rods. The further out you put the target, the closer the center of the target will be to the chrono. Even a slight slap at the trigger will jerk the muzzle low enough to crate an "Oops"

Back before I went with a Labradar, I'd set up the chrono screens without a target on the other side. Then I'd shoot at a spot just under the defuser

9mmepiphany. Do you like that Labradar setup? Would seem to solve all this sort of problem. Thanks!

 

[9mmepiphany]

9mmepiphany. Do you like that Labradar setup? Would seem to solve all this sort of problem. Thanks!

It really do address almost any problem you've ever run into with another chrono. The one I use belongs to my shooting partner...my Padawan

You don't have to worry about lighting.
You can use it without walking in front of the firing line.
You've not shooting over/through it.
It gives you readings all the way to the end of your bay.

For the most accurate readings, it does require that you aim it at a point downrange and that you shoot at that point

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

It really do address almost any problem you've ever run into with another chrono. The one I use belongs to my shooting partner...my Padawan

You don't have to worry about lighting.
You can use it without walking in front of the firing line.
You've not shooting over/through it.
It gives you readings all the way to the end of your bay.

For the most accurate readings, it does require that you aim it at a point downrange and that you shoot at that point

Does it give you velocities down range? I like knowing what the bullet is doing at 100 yards. Sometimes farther. Depends on what I’m expecting to do with it

 

[halfmoonclip]

Yeah, it gives you downrange velocities; mine is set for 50', but I believe longer ranges are possible.
Let me reiterate what 9mmepiphany said; LabRadar solves all the usual chrono problems.
Buy once, cry once.
And because it is easy to use, you're more apt to use it, spur of the moment.
Moon

 

[cfullgraf]

It really do address almost any problem you've ever run into with another chrono. The one I use belongs to my shooting partner...my Padawan

You don't have to worry about lighting.
You can use it without walking in front of the firing line.
You've not shooting over/through it.
It gives you readings all the way to the end of your bay.

For the most accurate readings, it does require that you aim it at a point downrange and that you shoot at that point

All of these reasons are why I bought a LabRadar.

It does give velocities down range but I forget the limits. If I remember correctly, terrain can affect the down range readings some. The location where I use my LabRadar does not have much distance so I do not know how well my unit reads at longer ranges.

If you are shooting a gun with a brake or flash hider, it is recommended to put a shield up to protect the LabRadar from the blast. For a back yard shade tree solution, I taped a heavy piece of corrugut box material to the side of the LabRadar to protect it. A more permanent sheet metal solution would be easy to build.

I still have a CED M2 optical chronograph and an early version Magnetospeed and they have not seen the light of day since I bought the LabRadar.

(Side note, I am not interested in selling them, don’t ask.)

 

[halfmoonclip]

And jmorris, experienced shooters shoot their chronographs. If you haven't used a chronograph with skyscreens, you have no idea how easy it is to misjudge sight offset, along with all the other mistakes we make when breaking a shot.
It's especially treacherous because the skyscreens have to be relatively close to the muzzle. What we think we know about bullet trajectory changes up close.
Moon

 

[9mmepiphany]

Does it give you velocities down range? I like knowing what the bullet is doing at 100 yards.

I answered that question in Post #41 where I quoted your earlier post

it gives you downrange velocities; mine is set for 50', but I believe longer ranges are possible.

We have ours set to read, and figure PF, at 10'. It continues to read and display velocity to the end of the bay...50 yards.

We've also used it at 100 yards and 150 yards to verify bullet drop when zeroing for a carbine load. We haven't tried it, but fellow shooters report using it at 300 yards

 

[drband]

I believe the main chrono-killers are the AR guys who forget that their high sights are far above the bore axis. But as was said, anyone can shoot one.

To me there are 2 main things to improve your chances...

• Set up a target in the distance which utilizes a very small bull. A 1 to 2 inch black dot bull at 30-40 feet works really well. Check the path with line-of-sight and make sure the bullet's path is at least 6" above the body of the chrono as seen from the bench, before setting your gun on the bench.
• Use chopsticks in place of the steel rods commonly supplied. The wood will splinter without damaging the chrono; if struck, the steel rods will break important plastic parts.

Hope this helps.

Hitting the chrono itself isn't a big problem, but hitting the metal shade supports can damage one beyond use. I use bamboo skewers and paint the lower two inches red. If I see red through my scope I adjust the tripod. On the off chance I hit a support, no harm done. Pistols are much easier as I only set up 10ft. from the muzzle.

Bamboo skewers in place of screen supports! They are cheap and available at Walmart. Look for the longer size.

 

[jmorris]

And jmorris, experienced shooters shoot their chronographs. If you haven't used a chronograph with skyscreens, you have no idea how easy it is to misjudge sight offset, along with all the other mistakes we make when breaking a shot.

This may be a good exercise for folks that don’t know where their bullet is going to be.



If you can keep your bullets inside an 8” circle at 3 yards, you have the ability to not impact a chronograph. If you cannot, I question reasoning behind wanting velocity numbers.

I am not a Labradar hater, I like them. You need an extra trigger for things that don’t have enough blast. They take longer to setup than the chronographs I use most, they consume more power than most other chronographs (the one I use often, can run for years on a single battery) an extra power source should be purchased right from the start with the LR and the cost is often the largest hurdle for folks.

The good news is the cost is going to go down over time and they get better. The first TI Datamath calculator was $150, could display to 8 digits, ran off of 6 nicad batteries and could only add, subtract, multiply and divide. These days business give away calculators (free) that not only run off of ambient light but also have memory, square root functions, etc. It’s not instant though, requires a large enough target market and patents to expire.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

This may be a good exercise for folks that don’t know where their bullet is going to be.



If you can keep your bullets inside an 8” circle at 3 yards, you have the ability to not impact a chronograph. If you cannot, I question reasoning behind wanting velocity numbers.

I am not a Labradar hater, I like them. You need an extra trigger for things that don’t have enough blast. They take longer to setup than the chronographs I use most, they consume more power than most other chronographs (the one I use often, can run for years on a single battery) an extra power source should be purchased right from the start with the LR and the cost is often the largest hurdle for folks.

The good news is the cost is going to go down over time and they get better. The first TI Datamath calculator was $150, could display to 8 digits, ran off of 6 nicad batteries and could only add, subtract, multiply and divide. These days business give away calculators (free) that not only run off of ambient light but also have memory, square root functions, etc. It’s not instant though, requires a large enough target market and patents to expire.

The Labradar sounds like a good replacement to light-source chronographs for close work but LR says they're only good to 100 yards and reviews of the device have all confirmed this. It's also not rated for small-bore - the .204Ruger for example confounds the Doppler radar - so a supplement for those smaller/faster rounds is needed. The accuracy is astounding but they really need a full bench and the few reviews I've read of people who shoot informally like I do - in pastures and fallow fields during the off-seasons mostly - have a hard time with it. It's for bench-rest shooters, mostly. If you're not a bench-rest shooter, it may not be as useful to you. I'm all of the above - indoor, outdoor formal range, outdoor informal range - so when the funds are available it might be a nice thing to have but since I want actual velocity data out as far as I may take a shot hunting - up to 300 yards - I'll keep my current chrony and just try real hard to remember not to leave it out in the rain or shoot it.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

We've also used it at 100 yards and 150 yards to verify bullet drop when zeroing for a carbine load. We haven't tried it, but fellow shooters report using it at 300 yards

I was confused because Labradar's site and manual say up to 100 yards.


If personal experience says up to 300, terrific but Labradar is vastly under-selling their own product if that's the case.

 

[Blue68f100]

Most every thing I have heard is that the LR stops some where after 70 yrds on a average. I guess it all depends on what caliber your shooting. The larger it is the easier it is to detect.

300 could be Feet , someone just for got to put the units of measurements on it.

 

[cfullgraf]

The Labradar sounds like a good replacement to light-source chronographs for close work but LR says they're only good to 100 yards and reviews of the device have all confirmed this. It's also not rated for small-bore - the .204Ruger for example confounds the Doppler radar - so a supplement for those smaller/faster rounds is needed.

My LabRadar has always picked up 204 Ruger straight from the box at least out to 20 yards which is the maximum distance that I record to. 20 yards was chosen mostly for handgun chronographing. My backyard range is not optimum for long range measurements with any chronograph.

I have two 204 Rugers, an a long barrel AR-15 and a Savage 12 FCV bolt action.

I have not tried having the LabRadar measure my 17 Remington.

With optical chronographs, I had to blacken the bullets on 204 Ruger and 17 Remington for the bullets to make enough of a shadow for the sensors to see. Even then, getting a reading was hit and miss. My CED M2 was a bit more reliable since I had the auxiliary lights. I did not look through my records just now to see if I used the Magnetospeed with 17 Remington.