How would you deal with a mentally ill neighbor?

[The Tourist]

You don't want to be hauling people off just on someone else's sayso that "they're weird".

I agree. Given that set of parameters, I'd have been in custody 30 years ago.

Same with a restraining order. That just puts this guy in holding with real criminals.

Find his family. If nothing else, you have done the right thing to get this guy some help. Now granted, his aunt Tilly in the double-wide trailor has plunked her double-wide keester in front of Oprah. But guys like this usually wind up getting beaten and abused in a system that just confuses and scares them further.

Just remember this. Mr. OP, you let me alter your serotonin to cover the head of a pin and I'll have you screaming at the moon right next to him.

This is chemical, not criminal.

 

[Justin]

This isn't really a gun-related topic. Your best bet is to solve this via contact with his family and the authorities.

That said, there are some tactical and awareness issues here that are worth discussing, so I'll move this thread to Strategies and Tactics.

 

[Tommygunn]

Get a small microcassette tape recorder and keep it handy. When he comes over and starts one of his tirades (especially if it's threatening) then you have tape proof.
Make sure it's legal. It probably is, usually one person has to be aware such a conversation is being recorded and you will be that person.

 

[gregormeister]

save money cut your losses and move to the country where you can buy a few acres cheaply and build a nice house or buy an older one where you don't have to see neighbors......my .02

 

[scott22]

Well, I think Bogie gave some pretty excellent advice. I had a family member in a similar situation recently (on the other side of the fence from you). Eventually the cops stopped coming out... at all. My Mom was contacted, but I'm not sure on the details (repeatedly). Then eventually my Mom moved her (my Aunt) by her to take care of her. Problem solved for everybody. Think of it the other way around, if that were your demented family member. Would you want somebody trying to get them locked up with real criminals (which by your tone you don't) or would you hope that the neighbor would enlighten you on the situation. On that note, I applaud you for being proactive in seeking advice and not just trying to you get the old man locked up. One day that may be you... or me!

 

[The Tourist]

This isn't really a gun-related topic.

I disagree. (Edit, I think you really do, as well.)

A "shoot/no shoot" situation is indeed firearms related. Just because nothing goes "bang" doesn't mean it's not of vital interest to the world of self-defense.

We discuss contact weapons, alarms, better doors and windows, pepper spray, gunsmiths and holsters.

By themselves, they might enhance the world of security, but offer no information on the discharge of a weapon in staving off an attacker.

To my way of thinking, this is an important issue. It takes all kinds, and we have now had that mirror to the world.

Somewhere out there is a Barney Fife who would have shot this guy the moment he appeared on the porch.

 

[M1911]

It probably is, usually one person has to be aware such a conversation is being recorded and you will be that person.

In many (most?) states, all parties to the conversation must be notified that they are being tape recorded.

Document everything. Call the police each time. Call a criminal lawyer and see if there is anything else you can do (e.g., restraining order).

 

[Treo]

I don't know if this has been brought up yet but it isn't the OP's responsability to police the nieghbor, it's the family's job.

My crackhead nieghbor has an autistic son who used to like to come over to my house and tear things apart to see how the worked. When I talked to dad his only answer was "Well that's just Freddy." Third time it happened the kid threw a brick in my yard which I found while mowing. I presented dad W/ the old mower blade, the brick obviously from the stack in his back yard , the bill for the new blade & a promise to take legal action the next time Freddy set foot in my yard. the situation was resolved that day and Freddy doesn't come near my yard now.

 

[bleachcola]

Does Nevada have anything that resembles the Baker Act here in Florida? If this situation occurred here you could easily get a civil commitment. That's one thing I love about Florida. Our laws make it harder on criminals and the mentally disturbed to harm citizens instead of the other way around like in many states. Victim rights come first.

 

[Tarvis]

Did anyone mention a tape recorder? Proof that he is in fact threatening you will make the police have to do something. Remember that this is only your problem because he (the neighbor) is bringing it to you. Don't lose sleep or worry about what is going to happen to him, you need to be concerned with your own safety and the safety of your family.

 

[Zoogster]

Ah Debbie. Someone etched in the long term memory of his even though his short term memory is lost.

How depressing such a life would be. All your memories of people younger than they are, or people no longer alive. Anytime someone actualy does convince you that is the case, it would only sadden you to come to the realization. The realization that everything that seems current and things you look forward to are from decades before.
A realization you would soon forget, and then be reminded again and again of when you wanted to do something with or visit someone from a different time.


He obviously is just trying to keep his romance with Debbie alive. You won't let him see or even speak to Debbie. Surely last he can remember things with Debbie were going well, yet you are keeping them apart.
That does seem kinda rude. Causing all kinds of hassle for a man just trying to see his loving Debbie.
That understandably has him upset.
It seems only yesterday that Debbie was thanking him for the flowers, yet you act like she is not there.


I wonder if Debbie is an old girlfriend or perhaps a wife that passed away before him?
In any case he probably does not have many prospects at this point in his life, so it is probably best he keeps the flame between him and Debbie alive.

I guess it is possible he could one day be violent if you keep him from seeing Debbie. After all he really cares for Debbie, and Debbie cares for him, she was just telling him so yesterday. Yet you won't even let them see or speak to eachother.





In all honesty though most days are probably similar to the previous ones. Like the movie Groundhog Day (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107048/), except it is only a repeat for him. In his case he won't eventualy end up with the girl, Debbie.
However since he will be similar most days, he probably will not be much more violent than he has already demonstrated if alzheimer's related dementia is the problem.
So rather than an escalation with him more upset every time, it will probably happen relatively the same each time. Meaning if he has not actualy shown a tendancy to act violently when treated a certain way, he probably will not in the future treated a similar way.
Perhaps figuring out which way achieves the best results for future use would be best. Some tactics may illicit threats and hostility, and others have him calmly leaving. Find the winner, and repeat.

 

[Biker]

A little empathy goes a long way. If we live long enough, we'll all be old some day. Do what you can to help the old bastard feel a little peace. Befriend him and work from there.

I've been through this before and even a mean old grizzled SOB like me was able to pull it off and I'm far from a social worker.

Best o' luck.

Biker

 

[Ivy Mike]

FCFC,
This is a gun forum. How do you think I'm equipped to deal with an intruder in my home?

Of course I do what I can to make my home secure but that doesn't guarantee the guy isn't going to smash a window or something.

I've gotten some pretty good advice. Perhaps I'll order a small video camera and hook it up to an old laptop I've got laying around. That should give me the evidence I need to get him arrested and into the system where he can get the help he needs.

 

[ilbob]

There are a lot of problems that do not have a warm fuzzy solution to them.

 

[Biker]

There are a lot that do. Life may or may not be pretty, but I don't want to contribute to the ugly anymore than I have to.

Biker

 

[rondog]

Poor old guy may not HAVE any family, or they may not be anywhere nearby. May even be estranged from them.

Dementia [is bad], my mother had it for years. She didn't know any of us anymore, and kept asking about people that had been dead for 50+ years. It's not fair to call him "crazy". Poor guy needs help.

 

[Deanimator]

There are a lot that do. Life ain't pretty, but I don't want to contribute to the ugly anymore than I have to.

But it's not MY job to pretty life up.

I'm not the gregarious and outgoing type with NORMAL people. I certainly don't want to interact with people who are trouble.

Ordering MY life takes up enough of my time. There's no way in the world I'm going to get involved in somebody else's business [who's causing me a problem anyway] over and above what I need to in order to protect my own interests. I just don't like people that much. Besides, I've got more than enough experience with being burned trying to help people who actually seem to want it.

 

[Biker]

Dunno...I just have a lot of respect for old folks, especially neighbors - it was how I was raised. Guess we see things differently.

Biker

 

[ilbob]

Dunno...I just have a lot of respect for old folks. Guess we see things differently.

I do too, but I also can't fix everyone's problems, and in fact it is highly likely that the OP cannot do much to fix this old guy's problems. It is way outside of his sphere of control. The best he can probably do is bring it to the attention of someone, be it a family member or government entity, that can do something about it.

These kind of problems don't resolve themselves and almost always get worse, even with treatment.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

lots of problems you can't fix
seems sa shame if you can't find it in yourself to make an oldtimers twilight days a lil better. might not be convienent but hey the japanese in me comes out around old folks. and the irish too

 

[WhoUtink]

Don't be scared. Invite him in and offer him a beer or some tea whatever. Sit down and talk with him and find out who debbie is and why he wants to see her. It sounds like he is leaving her gifts on your porch.Not every old crazy person is so bad to be around. Look at all the crazy old gun nuts here with interesting stories to tell. Defending myself from some really old guy doesnLt sound so hard, so its not something I worry about. And it is pretty weird to me that some of you think that protecting yourself from him and everyone else is priority one. Try helping him, he is your neighbor.

 

[rainbowbob]

Each time they tell me that because he isn't threatening harm to himself or others, they can't do anything about it. The neighbor has made verbal threats of physical violence although I am larger, younger, stronger and more trained than he is. He doesn't seem to pose a real threat in my judgement. This is where I am having a problem.

First, he HAS made threats of violence and may be far more capable of carrying them out then you imagine. Second, I would say your judgement is clouded by youthful over-confidence.

I know of no state in the union where a family member could have him "remanded" for psych evaluation without jumping through all kinds of hoops. You should still involve the family if at all possible.

You may be in a better position than anyone to get him into an evaluation/treatment facility, because of the repeated intrusions and threats. The "nicest" thing you could do for this gentleman would be to get him the help he so desperately needs.

Sometimes (usually), the only way to make that happen is to involve the law. Threats and trespassing put him and you in very REAL danger. You need to be willing to contact your county mental health professionals and INSIST that he is a danger to himself and others - and be willing to back it up with a sworn affidavit.

Now what I'm about to say may sound a little underhanded - and many will disagree vehemently. Don't bother flaming me because I have spent the better (or worse) part of two decades getting help for my severely mentally ill son when he has relapsed. If I've learned anything it is this: Treatment works - psychosis doesn't. ANYTHING you have to do in order to get that person treated is worth it. The end DOES justify the means. Period.

Now mind you - that applies more to grieving family members living in fear of the consequences of their child's next "episode". You are NOT under any obligation to get this man help. But you would be doing him a favor.

If you decide to proceed, rather than minimizing his threats and intrusions - enlarge on them. Make it obvious to the LEOs and to the mental health professionals that you are in REAL fear for your life and/or his life. This is the only way they will take the situation as seriously as it appears (from here) to be. Swear to it - repeatedly.

Videotape is a good tool for documenting behavior, but be prepared for the possibility that it may enrage the subject of your video. For the record: I received a national grant for a study I did at Stanford Medical Center videotaping consenting psychotic patients to show to them after they recovered. This started when I discovered that when my son (when stable) saw video of himself when he was ill, it made a profound difference in his willingness to remain in treatment. I do know something about the subject.

 

[green country shooter]

I agree with the videotape and family suggestions. A RO may not accomplish anything and may just escalate the situation. Maybe a locked fence?

Or how about:

"I'm sorry, Debbie's not here right now. Did you want to leave a message for her?"

I don't know if this would work or not, but in being around Alzheimer's patients I've found it easier just to go along with their delusions, unless of course they involve me getting naked or writing a check. They usually have so little short term memory that they quickly forget the whole thing.

 

[FCFC]

How are you "equipped to deal with him" if he "should he ever get in the house?"

FCFC,
This is a gun forum. How do you think I'm equipped to deal with an intruder in my home?

I wasn't so much thinking about hardware. I was thinking about software. You now have, or should have, a separate protocol for action if you happen to ever see the old "mentally ill" man in your abode.

Your primary duty is to keep him out of your house.

You certainly don't want to be presented with a situation where you have to decide to, say, use deadly force in a justified manner according to your "local laws....regarding defense against intruders."

Of course I do what I can to make my home secure but that doesn't guarantee the guy isn't going to smash a window or something.

If he ever gets in your house, your life will become worse than it is now. It will become complicated. Perhaps, very complicated. You just might do (or have to do) the most regrettable action in your life.

You have an ethical responsibility to keep Mr. Mentally Ill out of your house.

You've got history with Mr. MI. Tag, you're (ethically) it.

 

[publiuss]

What kind of pizza did he leave? All joking aside, this could escalate into a serious situation. Probably not but not worth the risk. You have been given good advice all around. I would definitely document everything and try to get some recordings. Then forget the cops, go straight to the DA.