How would you deal with a mentally ill neighbor?

[ilbob]

I feel sorry for old people who have lost it. My dad has advanced Parkinson's and probably a little dementia, although he can be pretty lucid most of the time, and is not violent, nor is he mobile enough to show up at someone else's doorstep. There are times though when it is pretty clear he is not really on the same planet as the rest of us. For now, he is here more than he is gone, but I know it is just a matter of time before he gets much worse.

His mom got that way. She spent almost five years thinking she was 12 years old back in Sweden living with her father again (her father died when she was 12).

From very close personal experience I can tell you that their delusions, dementia, or whatever it is, can seem very real to them. And even though now and then you seem to break though the delusions, it is always temporary.

Their only real hope is professional help of some kind. Often the best that can be done is to keep them in a setting where they cannot harm themselves. It is not a very satisfying situation, but sometimes it is all you can do.

 

[JKimball]

He's giving you pizza and flowers? Sounds like a nice enough guy. I tend to agree with Biker and WhoUtink.

Tell him Debbie doesn't live there anymore and you don't know her or where she moved to.

Have him and his wife over for a visit some time.

P.S.-Have you established that he doesn't think your sister is Debbie?

 

[FCFC]

....their delusions, dementia, or whatever it is, can seem very real to them. And even though now and then you seem to break though the delusions, it is always temporary.

Their only real hope is professional help of some kind. Often the best that can be done is to keep them in a setting where they cannot harm themselves. It is not a very satisfying situation, but sometimes it is all you can do.

And, if applicable, at some point, gotta take away their firearms...

Tough to do. But not really.

 

[Geno]

Biker, as always presents good advice.

Family, first, second and third. The police should always be a last option. Until such time as he factually presents a danger, leave the LEOs out of the picture. We no longer live in an era in which the gumshoe who walks the local beat is your best friend. Those days are forever gone. LEOs today are so over-worked, and buried in ever-changing laws that all they have time for is enforcement.

Treat the situation like you would want your Grandfather treated.

Doc2005

 

[bleachcola]

Leaving LEO's out of a situation has gotten a lot of people into a lot of trouble. A prosecutor could make a good point out of it. "If he was such a danger Mr. Smith, then why have you never bothered to inform the authorities of him? Obviously he couldn't have been that much trouble then." Try to handle the situation without the cops first, just as common courtesy to a neighbor. But if it isn't immediately resolved then you need to have a record on file to back up your defense god forbid you have to take physical action against the man. Kind of hard to put your family first when you're behind bars. Putting your family first means keeping your legal affairs in proper form.

 

[The Tourist]

Leaving LEO's out of a situation

For this postulate to be true, correct or even wise, we have to play turn-about.

I assume you're a gun owner. You probably unpack your car or truck after a day at the range. Fair enough.

Over dinner, there's a knock at your door, and it's a minion from Homeland Security. Seems a neighbor saw your gun cases, and just wanted to have a record on file to back up her defense god forbid she has to take physical action against you.

How's that sound?

Being sick is not illegal. Being a buttinski is not a role model I'd want for my kids. Heck, if we really wanted, we could get "impersonating an officer" charges filed for half of the mall ninjas here, and it would do more good for society.

If this old man is endangering himself or others, call the right people. A simple adjustment on his meds by a psychiatrist might prove he's smarter than you.

I went as mad as a hatter. Scared my wife so bad she almost had me committed. You know the problem? It's a simple little imbalance easily solved with trileptol. I've never felt better in my life.

Let's leave this problem with professionals.

 

[Ivy Mike]

Well he just came back over and dropped flowers and pizza and is now ringing the bell at 10:30 at night.

Police have been called and are hurrying over. Hopefully we will get some resolution tonight.


To those who have asked, yes I tried explaining to him that Debbie doesn't live here and has never lived here. This makes him angry and he starts getting belligerent.
I'm done screwing around with this. He needs more help than I can give him.

 

[Ivy Mike]

ok, police arrived. Trespassed the neighbor again and the officer told me that the wife said Wally (the neighbor) suffers from schizophrenia and possibly PTSD from his service in Vietnam. He has medication but refuses to take it.

Feels pretty crappy to know a vet is having these kinds of problems.
I'm going to call my father tomorrow and see what kind of services the VA offers. My own uncle suffers from schizophrenia and was diagnosed while in the military. He now receieves all the medication and treatment he needs. I do hope there is a way to get the same care for my poor neighbor.

 

[Oana]

P.S.-Have you established that he doesn't think your sister is Debbie?

That was my biggest concern, when you mentioned you had a sister. Was she living there before he started giving you gifts? Or did she come afterward? Is there any possibility that he's identifying your sister as this "Debbie"?

I appreciate your desire to get help for the old gentleman. I won't go into the debate over involving LEOs with the mentally ill, but do remember - don't underestimate people. Help is good, and if you can safely get that for him, great. But that route may involve the law, especially if he's making threats. Your safety - and particularly your sister's - is vitally important.

 

[bleachcola]

For this postulate to be true, correct or even wise, we have to play turn-about.

I assume you're a gun owner. You probably unpack your car or truck after a day at the range. Fair enough.

Over dinner, there's a knock at your door, and it's a minion from Homeland Security. Seems a neighbor saw your gun cases, and just wanted to have a record on file to back up her defense god forbid she has to take physical action against you.

How's that sound?

Being sick is not illegal. Being a buttinski is not a role model I'd want for my kids. Heck, if we really wanted, we could get "impersonating an officer" charges filed for half of the mall ninjas here, and it would do more good for society.

If this old man is endangering himself or others, call the right people. A simple adjustment on his meds by a psychiatrist might prove he's smarter than you.

I went as mad as a hatter. Scared my wife so bad she almost had me committed. You know the problem? It's a simple little imbalance easily solved with trileptol. I've never felt better in my life.

Let's leave this problem with professionals.

Carrying a gun case from a vehicle to a home isn't a crime. What the old man is doing is a crime. Being sick isn't a crime but harassment and making verbal threats is indeed a crime. And if you really think Homeland Security is going to show up at my door over this then you really are a stereotypical gun nut. If the local police decide to show up under some kind of legal liability they would knock on my door, ask if everything was okay, I would explain that I was just coming back from the range, and then they would leave. Oh the humanity! My life would be ruined over those lost two minutes of my life. Once again, understanding the law allows me to realize that they couldn't come into my home and take my guns or anything of the sort. One thing gun owners really need to have under their belts is an understanding of the law. Not some sensationalist attitude that could end up biting them in the rear simply because they made a foolish legal decision.

 

[SFvet]

Well they need to get the veteran set up with the treatment that he needs. He has medication but refuses to take it? Well if he is violating the law because of a psyc brake - they can put him into the mental health ward so that he does take the medications. The problem is that he needs to understand why the meds are important to take.

 

[conw]

I would be careful not to underestimate him. But I would also try to give him the benefit of the doubt and go through the proper channels - family, social services/gov't, LEO in that order - before it got out of hand.

A few days with a capable counselor and a medication adjustment (or enforcement of his need to take his meds) could make all the difference.

 

[rainbowbob]

...the wife said Wally (the neighbor) suffers from schizophrenia and possibly PTSD from his service in Vietnam. He has medication but refuses to take it.

Treatment non-compliance is the primary reason for relapse and rehospitalization with persons suffering from schizophrenia. There are a number of reasons for this, but the most common reason is that the person suffering from psychotic delusions is unaware they are ill. The organ used to determine whether we are ill or not is our brain. If that organ is malfunctioning because of a chemical imbalance - it stands to reason that it will be incapable of making sound judgements.

Get a videotape of his behavior if you are able. Give it to his wife to show to him once he is back on his meds and stable for a couple of months. It may help persuade him to stay on his meds thereafter when he sees how he was behaving when he was off them.

I'm glad you were able to involve the wife and the police. I have found that in many cases the police are able to transport a person in this situation safely and quickly to the hospital for observation - thus by-passing a lot of red tape with the mental health authorities. This might result in a brief stay in order to get him back on his meds and stabilized. It may also result in a court order to comply with treatment or go back to the hospital.

I realize all this sounds very onerous from a "civil rights" perspective - and is not to be taken lightly. But for a person suffering from schizophrenia - and their loved ones - the only thing worse than forced treatment is the horror and danger and heartache of remaining psychotic.

 

[Defensory]

Don't take your schizophrenic neighbor's actions lightly. He will very likely get progressively worse, especially if he's not taking his meds.

Stephen Kazmierczak was a "seemingly normal" individual. However, he was a schizophrenic who stopped taking his meds:

"Stephen Kazmierczak, the gunman who shot and killed five Northern Illinois University students Thursday, had recently stopped taking medication and "had become somewhat erratic in the last couple of weeks," Northern Illinois University Police Chief Donald Grady said at a news conference Friday."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-02-14-shooting_N.htm

 

[Ivy Mike]

well rainbowbob, his civil rights end where my property line begins. He is free to be delusional all he wants on his own property. When he starts making threats and harassing me, he has gone too far.
If it were just some jerk looking for trouble, I wouldn't be so concerned. This guy is actually sick.

 

[green country shooter]

Do not tell him "Debbie doesn't live here." That will just make him angry. Either keep the door shut or do as I suggested, tell him "Debbie's not home right now. Can I take a message?"

Arguing with delusional people is dangerous.

 

[Defensory]

Posted by green country shooter:
Do not tell him "Debbie doesn't live here." That will just make him angry. Either keep the door shut or do as I suggested, tell him "Debbie's not home right now. Can I take a message?"

I disagree.

If he doesn't believe that "Debbie doesn't live here.", why would he be any more inclined to believe that "Debbie's not home right now."?

He most likely isn't going to believe the OP either way. He's convinced Debbie is there, and that the OP won't let him see her.

If at all possible, I think it's best to keep the doors locked and try to ignore the guy, if at all possible.

Don't answer the door, don't speak to him, don't acknowledge his presence. If he doesn't leave after a few minutes, call the cops every time it happens.

That will give the OP a paper trail, if he has to take further action to stop the problem.

If this just keeps continuing on a virtual daily basis for weeks, I would advise the OP not to pull any punches in trying to get a resolution. There are other methods to deal with the situation if the police refuse to take action.

Contact local, county and state mental health authorities in writing. Contact local, county and state elected officials in writing. Keep electronic and hard copies of all correspondence.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

good luck no easy answers
but do be careful for both your sakes.

 

[rainbowbob]

This guy is actually sick.

Precisely.

Arguing with delusional people is dangerous.

And even if not always dangerous - it is always pointless.

 

[Ivy Mike]

Cliffs:

Neighbor starts coming over a few months ago and leaves things on the doorstep. Pizzas and flowers mostly.
Neighbor begins asking to see Debbie (who doesn't live at my house)
When I tell neighbor there is no such person here, he gets upset and a little belligerent. He refuses to believe me.
'Anonymous' gifts continue
Neighbor begins some vague threats against the job he believes I have with various government agencies. He later threatens to [assault me].
This continues at least 2-3 times a month over the past 5 months or so.
Finally, we call the police on the neighbor. The neighbor is taken away for psych evaluation for 3 days.

For a while, nothing happens. No gifts, no visits, nothing. Until a few weeks ago when the gifts started reappearing and the visits started up again.
Police get called back out and trespass the neighbor. Just a few nights ago.
Neighbor comes over again last night, police called back out but apparently nothing went into their system so they have to trespass him again. Cops promise that if he comes over again, he will be arrested.

and now we wait...

 

[Ohio Gun Guy]

I actually have a neighbor who is retarded. After having some privacy issues, I clearly but sternly told him the rules. I explained to him in simple language (Polite, but stern) that it was not okay for him to just come over. In fact, I made a rule the he was to only use the front walk and come to the front door, when invited. Other neighbors have never done this and have problems. He does not do this to me / us. I explaned the rules, and he listens to them. But I am always consistant, like with children and rules. I often talk to him and say hi & see how he is doing. However if its at my house it is on my terms, he doesnt just show up. He is a nice man/kid if there are rules.

Perhaps this helps, perhaps your situation is different. Hope it helps.

 

[redneckrepairs]

I guess I am just looking for opinions on how to solve my issue with the old man without actually hurting him or being hurt myself.

Take time to visit , invite him inn , and then ask him to help you watch your property . At the minimum you will know everytime you come home everyone who showed intrest in your house , and he might well run off some folks who otherwise were casing the place . he may be hung up on " debby " but he can still be an asset for you and a more acceptable neighbor than many might .

 

[bobbarker]

Didn't read all the posts, just skimmed, so this may have been addressed already. It really depends on what you mean by mentally handicapped. Alzheimers, not really much you can do short of the restraining order. However, if it is some sort of dimentia, one thing you could try, is telling him that Debbie moved out. Don't tell him, "There's no Debbie Here." As, he may think you are lying, etc. to get rid of him, because "Debbie" doesn't want to talk to him. Telling him Debbie moved, may help him to understand she's not there. Other then that, stick with a restraining order if you can get it, otherwise, call the police EVERY TIME. Make it their problem. Eventually, they'll do something.

 

[Ivy Mike]

redneckrepairs, with all due respect to your opinion, there is no way [ ] I am inviting him into my house.

Sorry bud. I understand being neighborly is a good thing but I have sane neighbors that I can invite over. I don't need the cooks coming over to hunt through the house for Debbie.

 

[memphisjim]

why not just tell the man that debbie move a couple houses down ;P