How would you have handled this? I slipped during conversation tonight.
- Thread starter .cheese.
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goldshlagerxx
Member
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- Feb 11, 2006
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"Do all states require fingerprints as part of bar admission? Never knew that, that doesn't really sound like a great thing"
Don't know. I can speak for 2. MT does and ND does not. Having my prints on file with the MT Bar does not bother me a bit. ND already has them for my concealed permit and the FBI has mine for several form 4s.
Don't know. I can speak for 2. MT does and ND does not. Having my prints on file with the MT Bar does not bother me a bit. ND already has them for my concealed permit and the FBI has mine for several form 4s.
Enough with the posts inferring that you have to be a lying scumbag to be an attorney. I'm not even an attorney yet and I find it somewhat offensive.
You can absolutely be an attorney and have integrity. In fact, almost all of the attorneys I personally know are honest hard working people.
You can absolutely be an attorney and have integrity. In fact, almost all of the attorneys I personally know are honest hard working people.
goldshlagerxx
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- Joined
- Feb 11, 2006
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- 59
"Enough with the posts inferring that you have to be a lying scumbag to be an attorney. I'm not even an attorney yet and I find it somewhat offensive."
Well you shouldn't. Most of my clients crack "lawyer" jokes now and then; it's pretty common place in today's society. You need to learn to take a joke and smile along w/ them. I've never had a client that has been truly happy to be in my office and I feel that joking about lawyers helps them to deal with their situation.
Well you shouldn't. Most of my clients crack "lawyer" jokes now and then; it's pretty common place in today's society. You need to learn to take a joke and smile along w/ them. I've never had a client that has been truly happy to be in my office and I feel that joking about lawyers helps them to deal with their situation.
scurtis_34471
Member
I'd have just told them it was for my concealed carry license. I've never been one to make a secret out of it and I'll tell you why. If people do not associate gun carry with normal, responsible people they know, who will they associate it with?
macadore
Member
I got this bs in graduate school all the time. I was like the barbarian who could speak English.
You have (gasp) “guns”?
Yes.
Are they (gasp, gasp) loaded?
Some of them.
(choke, choke, gasp, gasp) What about the children?
What about the children? What is the question?
(gasp, gasp, choke, choke, choke) Aren’t you afraid they will (gasp, gasp) accidentally (choke, choke) shoot themselves or someone else?
I take my children shooting with me all the time. If they shoot someone, it will not be an accident.
At this point, they dissolved in a fit of apoplexy.
You have (gasp) “guns”?
Yes.
Are they (gasp, gasp) loaded?
Some of them.
(choke, choke, gasp, gasp) What about the children?
What about the children? What is the question?
(gasp, gasp, choke, choke, choke) Aren’t you afraid they will (gasp, gasp) accidentally (choke, choke) shoot themselves or someone else?
I take my children shooting with me all the time. If they shoot someone, it will not be an accident.
At this point, they dissolved in a fit of apoplexy.
Last edited:
Ed Ames
Member
Sorry if you are offended.
However, lawyers must be able to control the release of information. Whether they are evaluating contracts in an office or defending in courtrooms they need to be able to deal with confrontational questions in a way that cuts the flow of information without simply screaming "I've got a weak spot, attack it now." Does that mean lying? Not as such. However, it does mean being able to address uncomfortable questions in distracting or uninformative ways. Or to simply say "I'm not answering" if that's the best you can do.
Side note: As far as I can tell a very high percentage of lawyers have concealed carry permits. It is a job which by its nature causes practitioners to become participants in emotionally charged conflicts between people who couldn't resolve their issues in more civil ways.
However, lawyers must be able to control the release of information. Whether they are evaluating contracts in an office or defending in courtrooms they need to be able to deal with confrontational questions in a way that cuts the flow of information without simply screaming "I've got a weak spot, attack it now." Does that mean lying? Not as such. However, it does mean being able to address uncomfortable questions in distracting or uninformative ways. Or to simply say "I'm not answering" if that's the best you can do.
Side note: As far as I can tell a very high percentage of lawyers have concealed carry permits. It is a job which by its nature causes practitioners to become participants in emotionally charged conflicts between people who couldn't resolve their issues in more civil ways.
perhaps.
I've been involved in preparing and conducting CLE ethics workshops for a few years, so I guess I take it a little more personally than I should.
I agree. I could use a fair amount of practice as far as that is concerned. I'm sure I'll become better at it. I'm actually pretty good at it when the information doesn't directly involve me (like CWP or anything else that I don't like disclosing about me). I used to do mock trial and debate throughout highschool and college, and I was pretty good... but still I admit I need much practice.
And then if it comes up that you have a CWP, the next logical question is, "Do you have a gun on you right now?" I really don't like having to say, "Yes." because I know that many people get uncomfortable when they realize they're within feet of a gun, especially when it's not in the holster of a cop. That's yet another reason why I don't like disclosing that info.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
Life is a lot simpler for those of us who carry openly.
It's not my place to force people to get used to guns.
I'm Jewish and love pork but most of my family doesn't eat it. I think it's stupid because they eat everything else that you're not supposed to (like shellfish for example) and don't keep Kosher. Does that mean I should shove a ham sandwich in one of their mouths? Or should I offer pork ribs to one of them? No. If people aren't comfortable around something, I respect that.
I'm happy to let people know I own guns... even that I own many. I'm also happy to take anybody to the range. In fact, my cousin and his girlfriend are going to be joining me at the range at some point - they've already expressed interest. However, I don't like telling people that I carry a gun, let alone have one on me at that moment. To THR members, it probably is all the same. To many people though, it's not. There are a huge number of gun owners in this country, but only a fraction of them actively carry a firearm at any given time.
I don't see a point to this thread anymore. All I was looking for was ways to skirt around the CWP conversation that seemed to be approaching at the time. Instead it's spiraled into "How silly it is that I don't openly tell people that I carry." and "Why I shouldn't become an attorney." I really don't feel that I need to defend my positions on either of those anymore.
bogie
Member
"A security clearance. If I tell you, well, we're gonna have to wash this whole place down with clorox."
Ain't that many self-defense cases... Be diverse. Be VERY diverse.
Ain't that many self-defense cases... Be diverse. Be VERY diverse.
76shuvlinoff
Member
Within my family if the subject comes up I speak of it openly and make no big deal. I don't bring the subject up myself.
I never thought much about whether I would tell people or not. I am a new permit holder, and have carried daily since purchasing my firearm.
My mother had to come in to watch the children one night of my class, because my wife was out. Of course, to get her to come in, I had to tell her why I needed her, so I did. At first, I though, "Oh boy, here it comes." But she didn't say anything.
I was talking to her a couple of weeks later, and she asked me how I liked carrying a gun. I told her that it was fine. She then told me that she was very happy with the fact that I did so. She told me that she worried about my being out every day with fairly large amounts of cash, and a truck with over $100,000 in inventory that somebody could easily steal and sell at a pawn shop many miles away.
Sometimes, maybe we worry too much about what others will think. Especially family.
That said, there is a tactical advantage to as few people as possible knowing.
My mother had to come in to watch the children one night of my class, because my wife was out. Of course, to get her to come in, I had to tell her why I needed her, so I did. At first, I though, "Oh boy, here it comes." But she didn't say anything.
I was talking to her a couple of weeks later, and she asked me how I liked carrying a gun. I told her that it was fine. She then told me that she was very happy with the fact that I did so. She told me that she worried about my being out every day with fairly large amounts of cash, and a truck with over $100,000 in inventory that somebody could easily steal and sell at a pawn shop many miles away.
Sometimes, maybe we worry too much about what others will think. Especially family.
That said, there is a tactical advantage to as few people as possible knowing.
cambeul41
Member
While I enjoyed reading all the clever answers, haven't we all been taught that the truth is usually best? As scurtis_34471 said,
Koos Custodiet
Member
I used to not talk much about the guns part of my life.
These days, I'm much more open about it. I'll go out of my way to get people to ask questions, so I can tell them.
I figure it's good for the cause. Too many people out there don't know that guns have good applications too.
These days, I'm much more open about it. I'll go out of my way to get people to ask questions, so I can tell them.
I figure it's good for the cause. Too many people out there don't know that guns have good applications too.
41magsnub
Member
Where do I send the invoice for a new keyboard? Mine is all sticky now.
A couple points that need to be made:
1. MOST-- and I stress MOST-- people drop a line of inquiry when it becomes obvious that a person does not care to elaborate. From your account, there were several clues that you didn't want to elaborate. The guy should have dropped it, and because he didn't, he is a pushy, nosey pr^ck. Social graces isn't a strong suit for him, it seems.
2. Now that said... if you DON'T give nosey pr^cks some kind of answer that will satisfy them, they will let thier minds wander. They'll see that you have something that you are hiding-- so it must be good gossip. Because it is about fingerprinting, you can bet that he would assume some kind of criminal issue. It would be better to have something ready at hand that will put an end to this line of questioning with the least amount of potential damage to your privacy.
3. Feeling bad about lying? I can understand that fully. You have character, and it flys in the face of that character. However, I'd like you to consider this: We always talk about security of our homes-- alarms, gun safes, etc. Those are mechanisms that protect from invasions our things. Having a misleading little white lie ready is more like having security mechanisms in place for your privacy against invasions from people like this.
I would tend to suggest a simple "It is not something I am at liberty to discuss openly." (That tends to stop inquiries if given with the right tone and facial expression-- i.e. Dead Pan). However, in social situations, it is often better to take a less direct path for the sake of being pleasent company. I wouldn't call a "Little White Lie" offered up to a nosey pr^ck to be a serious moral infraction. I'll toss one out to you....
"I filled in for a friend as a substitute teacher for a couple days."
Substitute teachers have to be fingerprinted. It isn't something that ties you into it strongly, requires little supporting information, and you can move on with your life.
I hope this helps.
Good luck.
-- John
1. MOST-- and I stress MOST-- people drop a line of inquiry when it becomes obvious that a person does not care to elaborate. From your account, there were several clues that you didn't want to elaborate. The guy should have dropped it, and because he didn't, he is a pushy, nosey pr^ck. Social graces isn't a strong suit for him, it seems.
2. Now that said... if you DON'T give nosey pr^cks some kind of answer that will satisfy them, they will let thier minds wander. They'll see that you have something that you are hiding-- so it must be good gossip. Because it is about fingerprinting, you can bet that he would assume some kind of criminal issue. It would be better to have something ready at hand that will put an end to this line of questioning with the least amount of potential damage to your privacy.
3. Feeling bad about lying? I can understand that fully. You have character, and it flys in the face of that character. However, I'd like you to consider this: We always talk about security of our homes-- alarms, gun safes, etc. Those are mechanisms that protect from invasions our things. Having a misleading little white lie ready is more like having security mechanisms in place for your privacy against invasions from people like this.
I would tend to suggest a simple "It is not something I am at liberty to discuss openly." (That tends to stop inquiries if given with the right tone and facial expression-- i.e. Dead Pan). However, in social situations, it is often better to take a less direct path for the sake of being pleasent company. I wouldn't call a "Little White Lie" offered up to a nosey pr^ck to be a serious moral infraction. I'll toss one out to you....
"I filled in for a friend as a substitute teacher for a couple days."
Substitute teachers have to be fingerprinted. It isn't something that ties you into it strongly, requires little supporting information, and you can move on with your life.
I hope this helps.
Good luck.
-- John
Slugless
Member
Why not tell the truth?
Ummm - because firearms has already estranged one brother from him?
Perhaps .cheese. knows his family's situation/politics better than we do?
Perhaps because .cheese. doesn't want any more of his family estranged or treating him poorly?
Would you estrange your family rather than tell a white lie?
Guns, military, and politics are all topics best avoided with my California brother.
Ummm - because firearms has already estranged one brother from him?
Perhaps .cheese. knows his family's situation/politics better than we do?
Perhaps because .cheese. doesn't want any more of his family estranged or treating him poorly?
Would you estrange your family rather than tell a white lie?
Guns, military, and politics are all topics best avoided with my California brother.
The Annoyed Man
Member
Although I working on it, I don't have my permit yet, so perhaps I'm not qualified to answer; but I do have a VERY "anti" mother, aunt, uncle, & cousins. (My liberal brothers are surprising comfortable with guns and the RKBA). My mother has already forbidden "guns" as a topic of conversation in her house, in any way, shape or form. Were I in her house and your situation arose, I would simply answer, "it's a forbidden topic in this house," and let her draw her own conclusions.
If it were in someone else's house, I would just answer the question. However, just as a point of good manners, I would not carry a weapon into someone else's home unless I had pretty good reason to believe that they were OK with it. If I had doubts, I would just leave it in the car. That way, if the dreaded followup question gets asked - "are you carrying a gun right now?" - I could answer that it was out in the car and set their minds at ease. It is their house, after all, and you are there by invitation, not by divine right.
If it was in my own home, I would answer just answer the question. If I was asked if I was carrying then and there, my reply would be a very pointed, "Are you?"
But in general, I understand the point that .Cheese. is making about good manners and setting other people at ease, and there can be some social value to deflecting the question in certain situations. I am defined by a lot more things than just my gun ownership or my choice to carry, and my answer to the probing questions of others can be equally diverse. Also, on point about the idea of good manners, it should be noted that it is equally impolite to be relentless about asking probing questions. It is apparent that .Cheese. did not want to really answer the question. Good manners on the part of his cousin and his cousin's girlfriend would have been to simply let the matter drop instead of pushing it. That was bad manners on their part.
It has often been said that an armed society is a polite society, but that cuts both ways. In a truly polite society, there would be no need to be walking about heeled. The fact that it is necessary at all indicates that, left to its own devices, society is not polite; and that guns make it so. When friends ask friends probing questions that clearly make them uncomfortable, that is just another expression of impolite society.
If it were in someone else's house, I would just answer the question. However, just as a point of good manners, I would not carry a weapon into someone else's home unless I had pretty good reason to believe that they were OK with it. If I had doubts, I would just leave it in the car. That way, if the dreaded followup question gets asked - "are you carrying a gun right now?" - I could answer that it was out in the car and set their minds at ease. It is their house, after all, and you are there by invitation, not by divine right.
If it was in my own home, I would answer just answer the question. If I was asked if I was carrying then and there, my reply would be a very pointed, "Are you?"
But in general, I understand the point that .Cheese. is making about good manners and setting other people at ease, and there can be some social value to deflecting the question in certain situations. I am defined by a lot more things than just my gun ownership or my choice to carry, and my answer to the probing questions of others can be equally diverse. Also, on point about the idea of good manners, it should be noted that it is equally impolite to be relentless about asking probing questions. It is apparent that .Cheese. did not want to really answer the question. Good manners on the part of his cousin and his cousin's girlfriend would have been to simply let the matter drop instead of pushing it. That was bad manners on their part.
It has often been said that an armed society is a polite society, but that cuts both ways. In a truly polite society, there would be no need to be walking about heeled. The fact that it is necessary at all indicates that, left to its own devices, society is not polite; and that guns make it so. When friends ask friends probing questions that clearly make them uncomfortable, that is just another expression of impolite society.
StuckInMA
Member
I saw it on the Discovery Channel. I forget the name of the documentary but it was pretty interesting. It was all about new technology and that was one of the topics.
moph759fl
Member
Less is more, and/or, Valor is the better part of Discretion
My 2 cents.........
My 2 cents.........
Deavis
Member
That is interesting, it isn't the way it works in Texas though. The electronix scanner simply checks if the prints are classifiable and then prints out a card for you. Nothing is stopred and nothing is sent, just a hi-tech way to take prints and make sure they are going to be accepted.
btw, don't be embarassed that you have a CHL, there is nothing more admirable than taking responsibility for yourself.
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