Hunting rifle and cartridge for west Texas deer

[Charlie98]

I was visiting my brother this past weekend. Neither of us have ever hunted, but he has some friends of his that are huge into it... and now he's talking about going with them to hunt deer. Both of us were talking about appropriate cartridges, and what might work. He would be hunting deer in the Texas hill country, west of Austin, I believe. His buddy sent him a picture of a deer he dropped at nearly 1000yds... which I find extraordinary. My BS meter would normally peg on a boast like that, but this guy dumps money into his gear, and spends the range time to dial it in, so at this point I would have to take the man at his word. The problem is... my brother doesn't have the pocketbook to drop $5000 or more into a hunting rifle.

Normally, I would suggest something in the .308 family, but he's concerned about making longer shots given the terrain. His friend reeled off some potential cartridges... some of which I've never heard of. I was thinking if distance was an issue, moving to the .30-06 would be a reasonable choice, or even something overkill like the 7mm Magnum... but, admitting ignorance here, I don't really know. A cartridge I would recommend for 1000yd shooting, is not the same as a 1000yd cartridge for hunting, if you see what I mean.

As far as a rifle, my normal fallback to a budget hunting rifle would be a Savage of some sort, but once you get into the long-action chamberings, the Savage is in good company with other rifles as well.


I figure a few of you would have an opinion on the matter at hand...

What would be 2 or 3 cartridges to look at for this purpose? Either he or I would be handloading for this rifle, so we would not necessarily be dependent on factory ammos... but, I don't want to have to form brass for some crazy wildcat. Keep it simple/stupid.

What would a reasonable rifle be to look at, at a sub-$1000 price (not including glass) be? Savage, Winchester, Tikka, Sako, Christensen, even Ruger... are all rifles we talked about, but in today's market, I'm sure I'm missing something.


Thanks!

 

[JmacD]

I’d put Bergara in that mix. Possibly Howa and the vanguard from weatherby as well.

 

[Gun-Reck]

First choice would be the .270 Winchester.

Any of the 6.5mm offerings(Mauser/Remington/Creedmoor) would work as well.

As for rifles? Bottom would be the Mossberg Patriot Vortex scoped combo, either synthetic or walnut, which run ~ $450-$580, depending.

Or the Ruger equivilant, ~ $550.

Lots of good choices up from there - Winchester M70, Remington M700, Bergara B-14, Tikka T3, etc.

 

[js8588]

Howa mini action in 6.5 Grendel or 6mm Arc

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I don't have any need for a 1,000 yard rifle where I hunt, but if I did, I'd choose the .270 WSM. The ballistics on it are astounding, at least on paper.
There's a Weatherby Vanguard on Gunbroker right now with a starting bid of $549 and plenty of others well under $1k.

 

[.308 Norma]

I was thinking if distance was an issue, moving to the .30-06 would be a reasonable choice, or even something overkill like the 7mm Magnum... but, admitting ignorance here, I don't really know.

If a 7mm Magnum is "overkill," (and I'm not saying it is) so is a 30-06.
Just saying.

 

[35 Whelen]

Were I your brother and had never hunted, the first thing I would do is completely eliminate the idea of shooting a Hill Country whitetail at 1000 yds. It's difficult enough to hit a static, inanimate object at that range, but when you factor in environmental elements as well as what an animal may do in the ~1.5 seconds between the time the sear breaks and the bullet arrives at that range, it makes shots at those type ranges very difficult. Did you know that at 1000 yds. firing a typical hunting bullet at normal velocities that a ranging error of only 25 yards makes roughly a 20" difference in the drop of the bullet? Misjudge the wind by a couple mph, and you'll very likely completely miss the deer.

My wife and I recently visited her sister who lives in the Fredericksburg area. At night there were dozens of does and fawns just off the road in the fields near her house. I'd forgotten how tiny the deer are in that part of the state. The fawns were about the size of my blue heeler and the does about the size of this years crop of fawns (I live in north Texas, just south of the Red River). Point is, it doesn't take a cannon to kill the deer down there. A .243, 6mm Rem.(what I started with), 257 Roberts, 25-06 on up to any beltless .30 calibers will be plenty.

35W

 

[earlthegoat2]

Unless your brother is going to invest the TIME to get proficient with his gear, any longer range option (300+ yds IMO) he might as well use whatever 300 yd max rifle he has already.

Is he a long range shooter? You don’t need to kill deer at 1000. <300 yds have been hunter’s best ranges for a good long time.

What does he have for a rifle currently? A good scope may be all he needs to begin to take on longer ranges.

It will take some time to practice to be able to hunt at 500+ yds. Maybe a dozen or so range sessions with the guidance of someone experienced at this on a 500-1000yd range.

 

[EIB0879]

Hill country deer aren't that big or tough. If you need an excuse for buying a new rifle and caliber I don't think you could go wrong with any you listed in .308, 30-06, 270, or 6.5 Creedmore. If I was going with a 7mm I would choose a 7mm-08 over a 7mm RM. Just my .02. My BIL uses a 7mm RM when we have hunted the Hill country and I just think it is overkill.

 

[Captcurt]

1000 yards is a shot that only someone who is totally familiar with their equipment and load should attempt. A standard rifle out of the box, in most calibers, should be capable of grouping well enough to take deer out to 300-400yds, but only if the shooter is capable of shooting that range from field positions. Most shooters, myself included, practice from bags or a lead sled 90% of the time. I have yet to get a lead sled in my tree.

Keep it simple, practical and within your expertise.

 

[mgmorden]

1000 yards is a shot that only someone who is totally familiar with their equipment and load should attempt.

Indeed. I killed my first deer 31 years ago at the age of 9 and have been hunting ever since. I still won't take a shot over ~300 yards or so.

Its not that you take the shot if you're confident that you can make it - you take the shot when you're confident you can't miss.

 

[Charlie98]

Sorry… I forgot to say that he does NOT intend on making shots at 1000yds… we both agreed that it would be unrealistic, and quite honestly, inhumane… at his skill level. Heck… at MY skill level.

I’ll read all of the comments when I get home tonight…

 

[Legionnaire]

If you're buying a new gun/cartridge combo, consider a Bergara in a 6.5, either Creedmoor or PRC. The latter will hit harder at longer distance, but either will be fine at reasonable hunting range.

 

[jmr40]

There are people who can make 500+ yard shots on game and do so ethically. But those guys are the exception and have spent a lot of time practicing and have invested money into high tech gear. For the average hunter 300 is a sensible max range to be taking shots at game.

With some decent equipment and dedication to practice 500 is doable for even the average Joe. Beyond 500 yards the skill level and equipment needed is beyond most hunters. And around 700 yards is about as far as I've seen experienced hunters take shots at game. Not saying someone didn't do it at 1000, but I'd have to see it to believe it.

You don't have the skills to take a 500 yard shot, at least not yet. With that in mind make sensible cartridge choices. The 308 and similar cartridges are just fine. I don't have the skills for a 500 yard shot either, but if I did a 308 class cartridge would be more than adequate on game up to elk. Moving to 30-06 only increases the effective range marginally.

I've been very happy with Tikka rifles. The 6.5CM is a legit 1000 yard target round. Actually much farther than that. As a hunting cartridge it will do anything a 308 or 270 will do. Which means game up to elk at 400-500 yards.

 

[BreechFace]

If 1,000 yard shot on game is on the table 308WIN/6.5CM/7mm08/243WIN class cartridges would not be on my list. And that's not even talking about shooter ability which is more important.

If a person hasn't hunted, shot long distance targets, studied ballistics drop charts; then they really don't have any business attempting a 1,000 yard shot on game until they have worked on knowledge and skill set. Just my opinion. I have no problem with extended range hunting when the person has the skills and knowledge of animals, shot placement and internal and external ballistics of their chosen cartridges.

 

[md7]

Personally, I look at hunting in terms of traditional and long distance styles.

From muzzle to 300 falls squarely in traditional distances in my opinion, and is not terribly difficult for the average hunter do with decent equipment and practice. I hunt with 270 Win and 308 Win cartridges. After 30 years of hunting I’d put my max at 300 yards. Not much beyond that, Id have to start aiming at air and not hair. I just don’t feel right about it and my optics lack bc reticles and exposed, adjustable turrets to make impact adjustment.

Beyond 300, or perhaps at 400 yards I feel like you’re entering into long distance hunting. This requires accurate rifles, bullets that perform as they should at lower velocities the farther you go, an intimate knowledge of ballistics, stable rest, adjustable turrets with the knowledge of how to dial, and more.

Off the cuff…. Around the 700 yard mark you have to start considering flight time. That is the time between igniting the primer and impact. A lot can happen in 1/3 of a second. Animal movement is a concern at extended range.

I’m not anti long distance hunting. I am, however, all for getting set up properly and practiced to do it effectively and humanely. And that’s not something you can purchase. It takes some practice and skill.

If someone wants to start long range hunting, then I’d suggest Bergara, Savage, and Tikka as some rifles to look at. Those are usually capable of decent accuracy with some experimentation on ammo.

As for cartridge, 270 Win, 6.5 CM, 300 Win Mag, 7 Mag, one of the PRC iterations, and maybe the 7-08 or 308. Don’t take my word for cartridges though…. My mind and familiarity is sub 400 yards and I’m not studied up on performance beyond that as cartridges and bullets are concerned.

Hope that’s helpful, and happy hunting

 

[LoonWulf]

Im enamored with the 7PRC as a hunting magnum ATM.
I can get 2950 with 180ELDs out of my Patriots 24" barrel (which is the ballistic duplicate of a 7mm rem mag when properly set up).

Id probably suggest a 6.5CM simply due to practicality. Its not the best at anything, but its really good middle ground, especially for someone looking to shoot/practice with their hunting rig often.
The rifle would be dependent on the buyer, and what requirements they have, and concession they are willing to make. Fit and feel are the major things to consider imo.

 

[.38 Special]

I have some opinions...

Nobody should take a 1000 yard shot at an unwounded game animal. It is flat-out unethical. There is simply too much that can go wrong at that distance, regardless of the skill of the shooter or the quality of the equipment.

A first-time hunter should not be considering long-distance shots, and by that I mean anything beyond the maximum point-blank range of the cartridge. For most things, that means 300 yards at the most. Any yes, I realize it is "Texas Hill Country": that long-range shots are available does not mean they are inevitable. A great deal of game is taken in such places at under 100 yards.

I'm almost certainly shouting into the void, but the wise course of action is to buy a basic gun in a basic cartridge - anything from the .270/.280/.308 class is fine - and then use the leftover money to buy as much ammunition as possible, along with a membership to the local range. Once the ability to hit, every time, from realistic field positions has been gained - and hopefully a good book about the physiology and habits of deer has been read and understood - then the tyro is ready to go afield.

 

[Buzznrose]

Sorry… I forgot to say that he does NOT intend on making shots at 1000yds… we both agreed that it would be unrealistic, and quite honestly, inhumane… at his skill level. Heck… at MY skill level.

I’ll read all of the comments when I get home tonight…

At ANY skill level it’s wrong! Arrogant and lazy come to mind.

It doesn’t matter your skill level…the flight time and all possible environmental factors combined with the potential of the animal moving all make any shots beyond 500 sketchy.

 

[dh1633pm]

What were some of the cartridges that were reeled off?

 

[d2wing]

I was amazed at the number of deer on the back roads in the hill country when I visited Luckenbach. I would look at a Tikka in 7-08 or .243. Compared to the deer I am used to, they are small. You could use a .30 Cal. but something in the 6 MM to 6.5 would be plenty, a 25-06 may be the ticket. As others said 400 yards is my recommended maximum if you are a very good shot with good hunting bullets. Aren't most of them shot over feeders on leases? I didn't see a lot of terrain for long shots, but I didn't explore that much.
My go to for really long shots is a Remington 700 in 7 MM mag that shoots around 1/2-3/8 MOA. but it's been loaned out for years. And again, You don't need it for under 500 yards.

 

[Dr T]

Texas Hill Country. 1000 yard shot. Sorry, my bs meter just pegged.

I have hunted the hill country for over 60 years and there may be some places where it could be done- perhaps a long sendero in a big pasture in ideal conditions, but you have several big obstacles. Notably wind, brush, and visibility.

The lay of the land makes the wind behave whimsically. The brush makes it great deer country, but it also makes hard to get a clean shot. Deer have evolved to blend in very well.

The deer I shot a week or so ago was pretty typical, 130 yards broadside, but had to wait for him a while to step out from behind a mesquite for a clean shot, and this was in a sendero. I just drove from San Angelo to Austin, and the brush seems to be worse now than it was 40 years ago.

In the last 6 decades I've killed two deer at over 300 yards (315 and 325). The average distance has been more like 85 yards.

For a new hunter the path of least resistance would be a Tikka or Savage in 6.5 CM. I have used a bunch of different cartridges between 243 and 30-06, but the result has been about the same. There is no secret sauce. I find that 6.5 mm and up will tend to anchor the deer more quickly, and the 6.5 cm factory ammo is so good you won't feel compelled to hand load.

Good luck

 

[mongoslow]

Ruger American in 7mm-08 will kill anything you want to hunt out to 500 yards , with a $300 scope the package will cost in the neighborhood of $800 , recoil is easily managed, altogether it's a a excellent starting point

 

[Anchorite]

25-06 or 270 have been getting it done for years at reasonable ranges throughout Texas. If it had to be a magnum, then Weatherby in 257 or 270.

 

[Charlie98]

Whew! Lots to comment on, here!

I’d put Bergara in that mix.

That was one of the rifles suggested to him. There are a lot of rifles out now I'm not familiar with... that's one of them.

First choice would be the .270 Winchester.

Any of the 6.5mm offerings(Mauser/Remington/Creedmoor) would work as well.

I thought of the .270, too. I was concerned that the 6/6.5mm short-action cartridges wouldn't be able to throw a heavy enough bullet. I handload the 6.5CM for friends, I load the heaviest bullet I can... the 142grn SMK... with good results, but it's not a hunting bullet.

The fawns were about the size of my blue heeler and the does about the size of this years crop of fawns (I live in north Texas, just south of the Red River).

I know where you live... ...and I'd forgotten you had a Blue. I saw the photo of the deer his friend took at 1000yds, it was, indeed, a little bigger than Rusty... our Blue Heeler.

What does he have for a rifle currently? A good scope may be all he needs to begin to take on longer ranges.

He and I were big into levers for a long time... he doesn't own a bolt gun. He does have a Marlin .30-30 I bought for him many, many years ago, but that won't get it. I'd loan him my Savage 99 in .308, or my Browning 71 in .348 if I thought they would work within the ranges he might be shooting at.

1000 yards is a shot that only someone who is totally familiar with their equipment and load should attempt.

His friend that made that 1000yd shot is completely doped up on his rifles... it's what he does. He's on about 10K acres, and has a 1000yd range he uses for load workup, and to work up dope on his scopes.

The 6.5CM is a legit 1000 yard target round. Actually much farther than that. As a hunting cartridge it will do anything a 308 or 270 will do.

I thought of the 6.5CM... as a target round, as you say. I'm familiar with it, for sure, but I don't know how it performs on deer, for example.

I'm almost certainly shouting into the void,

No, sir, you are not. If I knew everything, I wouldn't have posted my OP. I really, really do appreciate everyone's comments, even the negative ones. I've never hunted in 57 years, nor has my brother (except bunny busting back when he was a teenager.)


Some of the rounds that were suggested were mostly 6mm-7mm cartridges. A lot of alphabet soup that I'm not familiar with. I know the standard rounds... .308, .30-06, 7mm MAG, 7mm-08, .270.... and some of the newer rounds that primarily focus on target shooting... 6.5CM, for example. There are a lot of new hunting cartridges (aren't there always?) I stumbled upon the .270 WSM, for example, which almost sounds too good to be true.