Harley Man
Member
Thanks everyone for the in-put...see how one simple question net's you so much info and very cool pictures to boot. Lot of Knowledge out there guys .....keep it up. Enjoy the site.
Hunting with a Mosin Nagant
- Thread starter Harley Man
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Bbqznbeer
Member
FMJ"s are illegal for hunting here too.
From what I understand and seen the FMJ pill will begin to twist n' tumble on impact making it like a mini buzzsaw and in many cases will break-up or frag' throughout it's path.
Softpoints will . of course expand , but basically stay together and will have a massive hydrostatic shock following ( signifcantly more than an FMJ ) that creates those rather large exits and liquifiy internals , making a quicker kill.
FMJ's are deadly , for sure , but the shooter has to be accurate for that " fold on the spot" kill.
I use a Longbranch No4 .303brit for hunting , loaded up with Winchester 180gr CXP3 ... I'm ready for anything...
From what I understand and seen the FMJ pill will begin to twist n' tumble on impact making it like a mini buzzsaw and in many cases will break-up or frag' throughout it's path.
Softpoints will . of course expand , but basically stay together and will have a massive hydrostatic shock following ( signifcantly more than an FMJ ) that creates those rather large exits and liquifiy internals , making a quicker kill.
FMJ's are deadly , for sure , but the shooter has to be accurate for that " fold on the spot" kill.
I use a Longbranch No4 .303brit for hunting , loaded up with Winchester 180gr CXP3 ... I'm ready for anything...
Deer Hunter
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- Dec 26, 2005
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That's almost like saying "one-shot-stop". That's not always the case, no matter what you use.
Case in point:
I took a 9 point white tail a few years back with my grandfather's Marlin 336 in 30-30. I shot the deer from about fifty yards, broadside. I was using Hornady 170 grain flat points.
I shot, the deer stood still, I put another round into the chamber, and the deer walked a few steps. Then it fell over.
now on the flip side...
I've shot deer with a .308, broadside, through the heart and lungs and still had them run 30-50 yards through the woods.
Sometimes an "ethical" kill means finding the body fifty yards away. I'd rather have to track a nice blood trail than not find a deer at all after the shot.
Deer Hunter
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- 4,097
And I've seen these holes from both SP and FMJ. As well as Ballistic Tip and hollow point.
My father, for the past fifteen years, has been using 168 grain BTHP in his glass-bedded Remington 700. It's a match bullet, not meant for game.
Hasn't stopped him one bit. He hasn't tracked a deer in a long, long time.
I've also seen little itty-bitty exit wounds from SP ammo that didn't mushroom.
and I've seen SP rounds not penetrate all the way through.
We cannot make blanket statements for ammunition and wounding profiles.
MCgunner
Member
Wow, from a nagant thread to a FMJ thread. Well, put me down for bullet expansion. If you use a Barnes bullet, you can have your expansion and full penetration and exit wound guaranteed. Barnes will solve all arguments where hunting bullets are concerned. They're not THAT much more expensive, too, when you consider you're only shooting one deer at a time. Don't really need controlled expansion bullets on deer, I'm just sayin'...there's a lot better choices out there than FMJ military crap.
They're not THAT much more expensive, too, when you consider you're only shooting one deer at a time. Don't really need controlled expansion bullets on deer, I'm just sayin'...there's a lot better choices out there than FMJ military crap.
MCgunner
Member
It's about the cheapest accurate major caliber rifle I know of. Certainly a viable hunting rifle. I just find Remingtons and Savages a little more tailored to the job, that's all. And, after all, a Savage 110 ain't that expensive. Mine is an older one, no accutrigger, but a very good adjustable trigger I have tuned down to 3 crisp lbs with no take up or overtravel. You can still buy this gun in the form of a Stevens M200. I think the better trigger is one of the big differences other than ease of mounting optics that gives a sporting rifle a major step up over an old milsurp like the Mosin. But, I can shoot accurately with the Mosin. I'd get one, but I have no need or desire. I have other old beater milsurps to play with, a Mauser, a Hakim, two SKSs. The only one I've actually shot a deer with was one of the SKSs. Lately, about all I hunt with is my Contender pistol in .30-30.
One thing I don't quite understand, the Mosin is quite similar in design to my 88 commission rifle. Now, my commission rifle was rebarreled to 8x57S by German arsenals during the war for issue to old men and young kids. I shoot modern 8x57 in it. Lots of opinion out there that since the gun is more of a Manlicher, split rear ring (as on the Mosin), that it's not as strong as the 98 and shouldn't be fired with the 8x57S. I think that's bunk, myself, but you never hear that about the Mosin, being a weak action or something. To the contrary, everyone lauds the Mosin. Might be more to do with the gas handling or lack there of if a case blows out, Not sure what the Mosin has for gas ports in the bolt. But, compared to a 98 Mauser, neither gun is the epidemy of strength, IMHO.
One thing I don't quite understand, the Mosin is quite similar in design to my 88 commission rifle. Now, my commission rifle was rebarreled to 8x57S by German arsenals during the war for issue to old men and young kids. I shoot modern 8x57 in it. Lots of opinion out there that since the gun is more of a Manlicher, split rear ring (as on the Mosin), that it's not as strong as the 98 and shouldn't be fired with the 8x57S. I think that's bunk, myself, but you never hear that about the Mosin, being a weak action or something. To the contrary, everyone lauds the Mosin. Might be more to do with the gas handling or lack there of if a case blows out, Not sure what the Mosin has for gas ports in the bolt. But, compared to a 98 Mauser, neither gun is the epidemy of strength, IMHO.
NCsmitty
Member
MCgunner, that's exactly the reason that U.S. 8x57js ammo is downloaded to near 30-30 levels. There are still some of the weaker action Mausers still being used. Early 8x57 Mausers used .318 bullets, where the 8x57JS uses current .323 dia bullets.
Ammo makers allow for people ignorant of that fact of pushing a .323 bullet down a .318 barrel by downloading the ammo.
Your 88 might be one of those .318 barrels. You have to slug the barrel to know.
NCsmitty
MCgunner
Member
No, I said my gun has been rebarreled or converted, has .323" grooves, done by the Germans during the war. Bonus is I don't think the gun was ever issued, because the bore is pristine. It was sold as such and offered with 8x57S rounds of which I got 800 when I bought it. The gun cost me a whole $27.50 in about 1976 I've put untold hundreds of even the hot Turkish stuff through it no problem. I don't shoot it much, anymore, but it seems as strong as any Nagant. I've read not to push the handloads to standard 98 pressures and personally, I think that's BS. I think they must just be concerned with the fact that it doesn't have a case rupture gas handling port in the bolt, bout all I can figure.
Anyway, I fire the same S rounds in it that I do my Hakim, neither of which I shoot much anymore. Surplus ammo is getting scarce, and it's a bit of a fun gun, not really worth handloading for. I tried paper patching cast .308 bullets for it, once, didn't really work that well. LOL I just read about it in a magazine and wanted to try it. Loads were kept light, but accuracy sucked.
Anyway, I fire the same S rounds in it that I do my Hakim, neither of which I shoot much anymore. Surplus ammo is getting scarce, and it's a bit of a fun gun, not really worth handloading for. I tried paper patching cast .308 bullets for it, once, didn't really work that well. LOL I just read about it in a magazine and wanted to try it. Loads were kept light, but accuracy sucked.
caribou
Member
Military Gew88's that were Arsenal converted to the larger .323 were struck with a large "S" over the chamber area on thebarrel, to indicate the rifle was converted to use the modern Spitzer ammunition, and they fire quite safely.
I have both an "S" struck and an original chambering Gew88.
The action isnt weak at all, it was pushing an oversized bullet down a tight barrel that would blow up any rifle.
I have both an "S" struck and an original chambering Gew88.
The action isnt weak at all, it was pushing an oversized bullet down a tight barrel that would blow up any rifle.
MCgunner
Member
Yes, mine has the S on chamber. I like that old gun, shoots a tad high, but is pretty accurate. I never really used it for anything except just fun shooting, though. Don't break it out too often. I just couldn't resist at the time for $27.50... Early 90s Mosins were only 40 bucks or so. Even at a hundred, in today's dollars, they're about as good a deal as was my 1976 Gewr 88 purchase. That's just hard to knock, really.
Early 90s Mosins were only 40 bucks or so. Even at a hundred, in today's dollars, they're about as good a deal as was my 1976 Gewr 88 purchase. That's just hard to knock, really.
caribou
Member
I hear you on the prices, Mcgunner.
my Mosin collecting started in the late 80's with a 60$ Finned M-27 in MINT condition...I was blown away. It has teh "D" stamp, and took any Soviet Block ammo as well.
I really started collecting in the early 90's when I found the Centurey arms "5 for 100$, missing parts, cracked stocks specials"
The absolute fact is most were just missing the cleaning rod, a rear sight, maby a sling swivle and most were missing the Rust and wear that they should have had!!! What cracks??? a busted stock or two, but I just parted them out and fixxed the others....Later bundles were" NRA fair " all right, but not befor I had about 50 to play with. I still have the "Best" and plenty I picked up to fill the gaps inthe colection.
Sitting on 38 Mosins Nagants right now, and Im far from all variants, most are Finn.....91's, M-24's, M-27's, 28's, 28/30's, M39's with someRussian 91/30 and M44 or two and a couple M-38.
Great all around guns, and I find my SAKO M-39, '41 made is my best year round hunting Rifle, for Caribou to Brown Bears, one shot does most in, and therews nothing wrong with a followup to make sure. What matters is Where I hit them, everytime, and My M-39 is up to the job.
Might add that the Czech FMJ's are eccellent accurate, and all are keyholeing tumblers, and wicked on animals,....... however, the Russian and Bulgarian FMJ's are hole drillers,
and I use them few animals, mostly on Bunny heads....LOL!!!
Mosin Nagants are awsome!!
my Mosin collecting started in the late 80's with a 60$ Finned M-27 in MINT condition...I was blown away. It has teh "D" stamp, and took any Soviet Block ammo as well.
I really started collecting in the early 90's when I found the Centurey arms "5 for 100$, missing parts, cracked stocks specials"
The absolute fact is most were just missing the cleaning rod, a rear sight, maby a sling swivle and most were missing the Rust and wear that they should have had!!! What cracks??? a busted stock or two, but I just parted them out and fixxed the others....Later bundles were" NRA fair " all right, but not befor I had about 50 to play with. I still have the "Best" and plenty I picked up to fill the gaps inthe colection.
Sitting on 38 Mosins Nagants right now, and Im far from all variants, most are Finn.....91's, M-24's, M-27's, 28's, 28/30's, M39's with someRussian 91/30 and M44 or two and a couple M-38.
Great all around guns, and I find my SAKO M-39, '41 made is my best year round hunting Rifle, for Caribou to Brown Bears, one shot does most in, and therews nothing wrong with a followup to make sure. What matters is Where I hit them, everytime, and My M-39 is up to the job.
Might add that the Czech FMJ's are eccellent accurate, and all are keyholeing tumblers, and wicked on animals,....... however, the Russian and Bulgarian FMJ's are hole drillers,
and I use them few animals, mostly on Bunny heads....LOL!!!Mosin Nagants are awsome!!
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MCgunner
Member
The tumbling vs hole driller thing probably has a lot to do with the rifling twist, I'm guessing.
I'm thinking about getting a C&R license so I can collect some more old stuff, milsurp and such. I shoulda bought a case load of those Hakims. I got mine at 80 bucks and I listen to folks talk about 400 now. I have a bayonet for mine, too, learned my lesson on that. Always get the bayonet and frog to maximize the value. Should have gotten one for that old 88. Hell, even my cheap SKSs have gained good value. The way my IRA mutual funds are going, I shoulda just put it all in cold steel, but that wasn't a choice on my 401K. Besides, I'd need a warehouse for all the arms. If I could buy Mosins for the money I've lost just since Obama took office, I could arm a revolution. Gold? Yeah, whatever.
I'm thinking about getting a C&R license so I can collect some more old stuff, milsurp and such. I shoulda bought a case load of those Hakims. I got mine at 80 bucks and I listen to folks talk about 400 now. I have a bayonet for mine, too, learned my lesson on that. Always get the bayonet and frog to maximize the value. Should have gotten one for that old 88. Hell, even my cheap SKSs have gained good value. The way my IRA mutual funds are going, I shoulda just put it all in cold steel, but that wasn't a choice on my 401K.
Besides, I'd need a warehouse for all the arms. If I could buy Mosins for the money I've lost just since Obama took office, I could arm a revolution. Gold? Yeah, whatever.NCsmitty
Member
My 2 M44's make me feel so inadequate.
Bunny heads!!!!!!
That is funny. NCsmitty
WardenWolf
member
The whole rule against FMJ is rather pointless. I used a .223 hollowpoint on a javelina. It might as well have been FMJ, though. All my shots blew clean through with no expansion, and a couple hit bone. Exit holes same size as entrance. I was going to use softpoint, but I had to recalibrate my scope and I ran out of it, and all I could get was hollowpoint. Previously I considered hollowpoints to be unreliable, and this proved it. They did the job when placed right, but none of the rounds were left in the pig.
thank you for posting this i haven't big game(bigger than a coyote ) since last muzzle loader im glad to see a professional hunter hunting with a surplus rifle ,goes to show u dont need a 1000 dollar bolt action with a leupold scope to hunt .
Mike U.
Member
Caribou,
Those are fantastic pictures!
A picture really is worth a thousand words because those pics speak volumes about the M-N's usefulness as a hunting tool.
Thanks for sharing them!
Those are fantastic pictures!
A picture really is worth a thousand words because those pics speak volumes about the M-N's usefulness as a hunting tool.
Thanks for sharing them!
RE: M44 vs SKS
I am military and am moving to Texas in a few months. I have several military surplus rifles that I thought about using for javelina (M48, M44, 91/30, Enfield, Krag-Jorgenson carbine). I had leaned towards my Krag carbine or M44 for javelina/hog hunting. However, several people have told me to use my Norinco SKS. It is accurate, carries ten rounds, and a soft nosed bullet should put a javelina or (any other hog) down on the ground. Plus, I can get more rapid shots off without having to fight a bolt action.
I am military and am moving to Texas in a few months. I have several military surplus rifles that I thought about using for javelina (M48, M44, 91/30, Enfield, Krag-Jorgenson carbine). I had leaned towards my Krag carbine or M44 for javelina/hog hunting. However, several people have told me to use my Norinco SKS. It is accurate, carries ten rounds, and a soft nosed bullet should put a javelina or (any other hog) down on the ground. Plus, I can get more rapid shots off without having to fight a bolt action.
Mosin Nagant 91/30
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- May 26, 2011
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- 1
Hey harley man. I have been going to cabelas to get 150-185gr SP bullets. The ranges here in ft worth allow them since they are not FMJ. Plus, now I cast my own bullets for my mosin and couldn't be happier. Good luck! I like to buy the bullets at cabelas so I can reload the brass )
)Cob
Member
I shoot a MN with with open sights, though i modified the gun a bit... ammo is cheap if shooting milsurp. & hunting ammo is avaialbe very reasonable. - recently purchased some 180 grain & 203 grain hunting ammo (not FMJ), less than $12 a box, and brass is reloadable.
This link is an excellent website for MN ammo evaluations.
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmo.htm
Midway USA, has pages of choices for "7.62x54 ammunition", :
http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#7.62X54 ammunition____-_1-2-4_8-16-32
a few pics of the rifle I'm shooting are attached, just for the heck of it, even though posted before. The rifle made for an interesting project, for less than $100, & shoots fine. i bought a couple($69 apiece)... one to keep in original condition, one to tinker with. Built the walnut stock from a rough cut plank that had airdried about 7 years, & glassbedded the action. (still have all the original military components).
No regrets with the purchase, it just doesn't "fit" though... still like my .270 featherweight better. If i could shave 3 lbs off, improve the safety, and get a better trigger pull, & mount optics a little easier then maybe I'd like it better. There's a guy on youtube hitting an iron plate at 1000 yards, he's aiming 32' above the target at that range...
This link is an excellent website for MN ammo evaluations.
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmo.htm
Midway USA, has pages of choices for "7.62x54 ammunition", :
http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#7.62X54 ammunition____-_1-2-4_8-16-32
a few pics of the rifle I'm shooting are attached, just for the heck of it, even though posted before. The rifle made for an interesting project, for less than $100, & shoots fine. i bought a couple($69 apiece)... one to keep in original condition, one to tinker with. Built the walnut stock from a rough cut plank that had airdried about 7 years, & glassbedded the action. (still have all the original military components).
No regrets with the purchase, it just doesn't "fit" though... still like my .270 featherweight better. If i could shave 3 lbs off, improve the safety, and get a better trigger pull, & mount optics a little easier then maybe I'd like it better. There's a guy on youtube hitting an iron plate at 1000 yards, he's aiming 32' above the target at that range...
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