I ate dinner with a murderer.

[Cougfan2]

I used to work at Intel Corp selling their branded networking and network mgmt products. Louisiana was part of my territory. I got to know a guy that was a networking consultant that had bought several of our products. His name was Jim Giesick. I had actually referred some companies to him because he seemed very knowledgable, until one day I mentioned him to a company I was working with and they started acting a little wierd. They had said they would rather I refer someone else. This being the first time I had heard anything negative about Jim I said I would be glad to refer them to someone else, but was curious why they didn't want to use Jim. They said "You don't know?".

Apparently Jim had spent time in the Louisiana State Penn on a very high profile murder case. It was actually made into a movie. He conned a rich heiress in NJ into marrying him and she moved down to Louisiana with him. One night they were driving and he faked the car breaking down. He stopped in the middle of the bridge and said there is a gas station about a mile up, I'll go and see if I can get help. Actually he had arranged for a preacher freind to drive onto the bridge and run his wife down so he could inherit her money. Anyway, he and the preacher went to jail. That was where he took classed to get Novell Netware certification. Seemed like the nicest guy in the world. Creeped me out for a long time.

 

[Deanimator]

I know how you feel. I think I was at Camp Howze, Korea with murderer Lon Horiuchi. I think I only talked to him once, but if it was him, I can EASILY believe he'd shoot a woman holding a baby... every day if they told him to.

 

[Cougfan2]

I know how you feel. I think I was at Camp Howze, Korea with murderer Lon Horiuchi.

Every time I hear that guy's name it steams me that he isn't in prison. Can't really say what I want to and keep it high road.

 

[rainbowbob]

If a person *seems* wrong chances are they *ARE* wrong.

Far too often it seems many of us don't act on our instincts because we don't want to "offend" anyone.

I've long since gotten over worrying about offending anybody that my gut tells me is wrong.

 

[Ash]

I knew a real odd ball in middle school in Alabama named Clay Flowers. He was odd - and that comes from a guy who moves to his own tune! Anyway, he ended up helping another guy commit a horrible murder when we were in High School, they were so dumb they drove the murdered girl's car into a pond that was 4 feet at its deepest.

When all was said and done, he found himself on death row at age 16 - the youngest in the nation - and I knew him. Anyway, I suppose ole Clay is Holman Prison for life now that the Supreme Court has ruled minors can't get a good shock. Personally, knowing the depravity of the murder, the things they did to the girl (raped, sodomized, ran over her with her own car, etc, etc, etc), I think he should get bludgeoned to death in prison.

Ash

 

[thegoodfight]

This whole thread gives me the creeps.

Anyway, my sisters friends were camping in Sonoma County,CA. They were two christian camp counselors. Anyway, they were both shot in the head while they were asleep. Nobody knows the motive or has any suspects. Some random guy came along and shot them both in the head...it was some strange caliber too, I forget. It was featured on americas most wanted a few years back.

 

[Kim]

I remember that case. Creepy and sad.

 

[Haemon]

Two ideas keep coming up in this thread: pay attention to "gut instincts" and the idea that "you would never have guessed" the person was a murderer. This is true for a reason. Some very dangerous folks have what's called antisocial personality disorder. That diagnosis isn't an excuse -- it's an alarm bell. Sometimes this entails having little to no empathy, sympathy, or conventional understanding of right and wrong. Though they don't understand the moral foundations of social conventions like fairness, politeness, or cooperation, they can be very good at copying them in order to fool people and get their way.

We get the "funny feeling" about some of these folks because their act slips up. Their facial expressions don't match their actions or words, or their behavior shows strange motives or reasoning. They count on folks explaining this away and use social conventions as a way to manipulate people into complying with things that folks ordinarily wouldn't do. Think Ted Bundy just asking for a ride -- who would say no the that nice young man with the cast? Think Eric Harris, not a misunderstood victim, as some thought, but a violent manipulatior who felt nothing but contempt for his peers and sought fame through an attack he hoped would dwarf the death toll of the Murrah Federal Building. These aren't folks who "just snap" one day -- these are folks who live in or society and follow its rules to an extent, but view it with contempt. These folks often see trust and compassion as weaknesses and use them as tools to exploit others. In addition, these people have little ability to make realistic long-term plans and tend to be thrill-seekers. Not surprisingly they frequently end up using drugs and in prison.

Pay attention to that "funny feeling" or "odd vibe" you get -- you might be noticing something important.

 

[Elza]

I have a fair “6th sense” and I’ve learned ignoring it generally results in regret. However, nothing I’ve seen or felt can equal that of a dog. If my German Shepherd doesn’t like someone I really take notice.

The other day someone showed up at our house that our son didn’t know. ‘Friend of a friend’ deal. My Shepherd came over and sat in front of me (the classic protective stance of a dog) the entire time he was there. I told our son later that I didn’t want the guy near the place again. Our son agreed. He, too, believes in the dog’s assessment.

 

[Frog48]

Something about him always rubbed me the wrong way, kind of an irritating personality. About a month ago after a shoot he went out for Mexican food with a few of us. He creeped out my fiance, which was reason enough for me to try to keep him at a distance/

Good call. Your "gut feeling" is rarely wrong.

 

[rainbowbob]

Haemon's description of the classic "sociopath" or "psychopath" is on the money. I've known a few in my life and it is uncanny how they can instinctively and quickly figure out what triggers your sympathetic responses.

Sometimes that funny feeling comes when you sense they "care" too much about what you care about. They are just a little too "sincere".

The sister of one of my closest friends - an intelligent, deeply compassionate women - married Ted Bundy AFTER he went to jail and on trial in Florida for his last string of murders. He was able to convince her that he was innocent - and that she was smart enough to see through the prosecutor's "lies".

 

[Mr.1973]

I have been to Columbia,IN. I worked on the road with two guys from there. Doesn't the KKK hold their main rally's there?

All I remember, slightly post 9/11, was alot of cameras on the main streets, and a HUGE ass trailer park..... Which my friends lived in.

I know there are a lot of trailer parks in the US, but this had to be the largest trailer park I have ever seen! ....EVER even heard about.

Anyways, murder is a thing that we will all deal with in this lifetime. This is not a simple life anymore.

You have to remember your "guts" will not always help you decide who is capable of murder.

 

[WC145]

My son's roommate at University of Southern Maine for the spring '07 semester went home after school let out for the summer and stabbed his father to death. My boy was more than a little creeped out thinking about all of the time the spent hanging out and, of course, sleeping in the same room with the guy!

 

[Deanimator]

If a person *seems* wrong chances are they *ARE* wrong.

One of my ROTC instructors in the '70s was Rusty "My Lai" Calley's roommate at IOBC. He said, that he knew there was something wrong with the guy from day one.

Coincidentally, one of my other ROTC instructors was the OIC of the guard detachment at Calley's court martial.

 

[ctdonath]

Anyone recall the name Kali Ann Poulton?

A chatty co-worker told a company security guard once what he'd do to the guy who killed her and hid the body. A couple years later that guard admitted to stuffing her body in the building's AC cooling tank. After 3 years there, DNA testing was required for identification.

I was working in the building at the time her remains were found. Ironically, I was on my way to take LFI-III that day.

I don't trust security guards now.

 

[ctdonath]

Your "gut feeling" is rarely wrong.

What few people realize is the complexity of mental cognition required to transform vague sensory perceptions into articulable abstract linguistic constructs. Your "gut feeling" is low-level sensory interpretors bypassing the whole high-level storytelling process and saying "hey, something's wrong and we don't have time to document all the details".

 

[wheelgunslinger]

A lot of people disappear on trails. The Appalachian Trail alone has recently had its own recent spate of murders.
Too often I meet a lot of creepy guys on trails that comment on how they wish there were more young/single women and less other men.

I'm always cautious of people when I'm sleeping in shelters or in more popular areas with lots of campers. You never know.

 

[SSN Vet]

Well they may have attended church together ... but apparently they chose to not practice what should have been taught...

Proverbs 1:10-19

My son ... If they say ... let's waylay some harmless soul ... we will get all sorts of valuable things and fill our houses with plunder ... throw in your lot with us ...

my son, do not go along with them, do not set foot on their paths; for their feet rush into sin, they are swift to shed blood ...

These men lie in wait for their own blood; they waylay only themselves! Such is the end of all who go after ill-gotten gain; it takes away the lives of those who get.

 

[conw]

1) Haemon, awesome write-up. You clearly have a good grasp of the material. A+

2) Anyone notice how there are 4 or 5 posts here that mention how THR members have some reasonably close connection (through an acquaintance or whatever) to some high-profile murderers? Weird...

3) It's important to be wary and suspicious of strangers (and in particular to look for the signs that Haemon mentioned!) but it's also important, theoretically, to keep in mind that a very small percentage of people walking about society would actually commit a cold-blooded crime, or even a crime of passion. The problem is just that we can't always know.

 

[conw]

wheelgunslinger,

Agreed. Obviously some of these places are almost viewed as "hunting grounds." Now, what I don't get, is that most AT advocates are TOTALLY ANTI-FIREARM, for example...

http://www.warrendoyle.com/

This guy has hiked the whole AT 13-15 times, and completely scoffs at the idea of any firearm or defensive tool for anyone. He thinks murder statistics are either made up or manipulated to scare people. (I know him because I used to be his son's best friend.)

 

[rainbowbob]

Anyone notice how there are 4 or 5 posts here that mention how THR members have some reasonably close connection (through an acquaintance or whatever) to some high-profile murderers?

Have you heard the of the theory of "six degrees of seperation"? It's a small enough world that somebody knows somebody who is related to so-and-so. Or something like that.

I know him because I used to be his son's best friend.

 

[Sniper X]

I had a similer instance when I was about 16. My dad divorced my mom and married a nice younger girl 12 years his junior. He was married to her for five years at which time I would meet them at a local ski area or run across them at some ski area here in New Mexico. One time at Sandia Peak Ski area, I met them and they had a tag along buddy, one of my dad's and her co-workers. William Wayne Gilbert. I have always prided myself on being a good judge of carachter, and he rubbed me the wrong way.

By the time a year or so had gone by, my Dad's second wife Carol, had divorced my Dad and hooked up with and eventually married William Wayne Gilbert. They lived two doors from my dad in a rich part of town, 4 hills. She had trouble with him and his womanizing and was leaving him one night and he shot her dog, went next door and shot both neibors for complaining and threatening to call police, then went back and murdered Carol. Went casually down to a fast food place in the city and opened up on the customers and employees. All in all I am unsure how many died that night but it was very wierd and disturbiung to hear someone I KNEW had done that.

I told my dad jokingly when he asked why I didn't hit it off with William like I usually do, "Because he is an AXE murderer..." This was only about two days after I met him the first time.....

 

[Sniper X]

Rainbow, the theory is that we all, all of us on the planet are only seperated by "Six degrees of sepearation".....All of us.

 

[ctdonath]

Weird...

Not wierd. Consider how many people you know, and have known. Then consider what percentage of the population is that evil. Run the stats, and methinks you'll find everyone, on average, directly knows 1-2 such freaks at some point in their lives. Toss in the "six degrees of separation", and you'll be surprised how close you are to Ted Bundy and Charles Manson.

 

[conw]

Six degrees is a lot. It's augmented by the fact that some people know LOTS of people... But there have been quite a few people on here who actually knew the killers personally, or were 1 degree removed.