Quantcast

I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!!!

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by hotshot357, Dec 8, 2019.

  1. hotshot357

    hotshot357 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2018
    Messages:
    118
    I 'm relativity new to reloading (started in 2016). I bought a 9mm pistol and decided to reload ammo for it. I done a lot of research and decided on a starting load (minimum) of 3.3 grains of 700x powder. I loaded up one mag full (16 rounds) and while I was at it, I loaded up 16 rounds with 3.5 grains of the same powder. I shot the 3.3 first and then the 3.5. What a difference!!! I can't believe the difference in .2 grain of powder!! That's a 7 inch paper plate. I guess I found the "recipe" the CZ really likes!! IMG_20191208_164537233_BURST001.jpg IMG_20191208_164646118.jpg
     
    fireside44, czhen, sequins and 10 others like this.
  2. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2017
    Messages:
    924
    Were you shooting off a bench rest or offhand?
     
    hotshot357 likes this.
  3. Hooda Thunkit

    Hooda Thunkit Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2017
    Messages:
    541
    Location:
    Oklahoma, out in the red dirt.
    Good deal ! You got a small taste of why folks reload.

    The problem, of course, is that every powder, every charge weight, every bullet, every bullet weight, every seating depth, every primer, every combination.....
    Shoots differently.

    Enjoy !
     
    fireside44, mdi, armoredman and 3 others like this.
  4. hotshot357

    hotshot357 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2018
    Messages:
    118
    I shot both offhand.
     
  5. Virginia Jim

    Virginia Jim Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2017
    Messages:
    122
    Good job.
     
    stillquietvoice and hotshot357 like this.
  6. hotshot357

    hotshot357 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2018
    Messages:
    118
    Thank you Jim. I turned 69 yesterday and I'm pretty proud of that group! I have to give a lot of credit to the CZ 75!!!!
     
  7. FROGO207

    FROGO207 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2008
    Messages:
    8,200
    Location:
    Mount Desert Island Maine
    You just wait. It can get downrite fun trying for that one hole group. I now believe that I shoot so I have brass to reload and make things more accurate.:D
     
  8. nevadabob

    nevadabob Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    327
    Location:
    Reno NV
    Nice shooting and Happy Birthday! You and I are the same age and I started reloading 8 years ago. I'm always learning and enjoy reloading as much as I do shooting.
     
    hotshot357 and Armored farmer like this.
  9. Starter52

    Starter52 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    1,925
    Location:
    Northeast USA
    Bullet weight?

    I shoot my best 9mm groups with heavier bullets.
     
  10. hotshot357

    hotshot357 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2018
    Messages:
    118
    IMG_20191209_110300197_BURST000_COVER_TOP.jpg Those was 124 grain Hi Tek coated TC bullets.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
    Demi-human, sequins and Starter52 like this.
  11. murf

    murf Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
    Messages:
    4,373
    Location:
    arizona
    that .2 grains of powder is 6% of the load weight. that is a lot. to put that into perspective, 6% of a 50 grain charge (normal in a high power rifle) is a 3.0 grain increment. most rifle reloaders use .5 grain increments as a max and .2 grain increments as a norm. you can use a .1 grain increment in your handgun reloading and see a difference. this is why I weigh every powder charge.

    seating the bullet longer, or shorter, will also affect accuracy, although not as much as powder charge.

    luck,

    murf

    p.s. very nice shooting hotshot357!
     
    hotshot357 likes this.
  12. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    21,258
    Location:
    Northwest Coast
    Nice shooting! And happy birthday!

    Many fast burning powders have start/max charge range of around 0.5 gr and I found sometimes 0.2 gr of powder charge could make a big difference.

    Also, many powders tend to produce greater accuracy as charges approach maximum load data likely from more efficient and consistent powder burn and pressure build.

    BTW, Hodgdon load data - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol
    • 125 gr Lead CN 700-X COL 1.125" Start 2.9 gr (899 fps) 23,700 PSI - Max 3.4 gr (1,003 fps) 31,600 PSI
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
    hotshot357 likes this.
  13. hotshot357

    hotshot357 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2018
    Messages:
    118
    LiveLife, I used the load data for the 115gr. LRN. My thinking was the pressures would be the same and the OAL was perfect. The velocities will be off but the psi was more important to me (25,200-31,900). Please let me know if my thinking was wrong.
     
    sequins likes this.
  14. Olon

    Olon Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2018
    Messages:
    639
    Location:
    Roaming around the Heartland
    If you used 124 gr bullets you should only use load data for that weight. You actually have less space in the cartridge with the heavier bullet and because it takes more of an impulse to move the heavier bullet you would see a pressure spike using loads for a lighter one. I’d tread carefully if I were you.
     
    460Shooter and Walkalong like this.
  15. armoredman

    armoredman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    17,419
    Location:
    proud to be in AZ
    I used a 125 gr cast lead with 4 gr of 700X once...ONCE...
    Actually I still have three pounds of the stuff stashed away for rainy day, because dagnabbit that stuff is hard to meter!
    Good shooting and welcome to the addiction!
     
  16. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    21,258
    Location:
    Northwest Coast
    You can reference load data for bullet weight that is slightly heavier but not the other way around. Since most bullets can vary in weight by 1.0+ grain, I interchange load data for 124 gr and 125 gr bullets.

    And you are using Cone Nose profile bullet which typically has longer bullet base that gets seated deeper than Round Nose profile bullet with shorter bullet base. So for 124 gr LCN bullet, I would use 125 gr LCN load data and not 115 gr LRN load data.

    Here are 115 gr LRN and 125 gr LCN load data for comparison - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol
    • 115 gr Lead Round Nose 700-X COL 1.100" Start 3.3 gr (986 fps) 25,200 PSI - Max 3.7 gr (1,082 fps) 31,900 PSI
    • 125 gr Lead Cone Nose 700-X COL 1.125" Start 2.9 gr (899 fps) 23,700 PSI - Max 3.4 gr (1,003 fps) 31,600 PSI
     
    Demi-human and hotshot357 like this.
  17. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2017
    Messages:
    924
    Your thinking was wrong. The pressure will not be the same. Since you used a heavier bullet (124 gr) with 115 load data, your pressures will be higher than those for 115 grain bullets.

    Your velocity will also be different, and in this case, the speed of your 124 grain bullets will most likely be higher than what the 115 grain bullets produced.
     
    hotshot357 and Walkalong like this.
  18. Dudedog
    • Contributing Member

    Dudedog Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2013
    Messages:
    5,078
    Location:
    Southern CA
    Now you need to try 3.4.
    Since you are over MAX or very close to it,
    I would play with the 3.3 load and adjust the OAL up and down a bit (may .05 at a time)to see if I could make it shoot better (as good as 3.5) and not be right on the edge.

    Glad you found something that works for you.
     
    hotshot357 and sequins like this.
  19. sequins

    sequins Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2014
    Messages:
    870
    So, the important thing to note is that a higher grain bullet is going to be a larger projectile and it's going to consume more case space. This will increase your pressure, often substantially. I notice in the data that you posted that the 124gn bullet uses both less powder and a longer overall length compared to the 115gn and both of those variations lead to increased pressure.

    For example in the load data we've been posting in this thread,

    The minimum charge for the 115gn LRN is nearly the maximum for the 125gn LRN, ie. if 3.3gns of powder is the min for 115gn, but 3.4gn is the max for the the 125gn, then simply "using the 115gn data" is perhaps a risky proposition. You're inadvertently loading nearly maximum loads even at minimum, or over-max at 3.5gn (vs. 3.4 recommended maximum), and the risk is amplified by the lower seating length of 1.1" flat versus the recommended 1.125" for the 124gn.

    My guess is the higher powered rounds are indeed more accurate but if you're not shooting with a chronograph it's hard to guess what your pressure is really at. I presume you're not noticing anything scary so you're probably fine but still you want to keep it in mind. Don't swap data between bullet weights if you can help it in my opinion.

    I hope this helps!
     
    hotshot357, Olon, Dudedog and 2 others like this.
  20. hotshot357

    hotshot357 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2018
    Messages:
    118
    THANKS GUYS!!!! The info will be taken. Sequins,your presumption was correct. The pistol felt great, nothing scary. I guess I just wanted this to work and the results were fantastic for me! Oh well, back to the drawing board. Thanks again for getting me back on track. As I get older, it seems I get "more stupid"!!!!
     
  21. mdi

    mdi Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2007
    Messages:
    2,891
    Location:
    Orygun!
    This is exactly why I reload. I don't count pennies for "saving money" I reload for the satisfactions, working at the bench producing good ammo, shooting that ammo, comparing and recording results, and studying data for the next load...
     
    hotshot357 likes this.
  22. Skinnedknuckles

    Skinnedknuckles Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2011
    Messages:
    230
    From my experience, you need to be very careful of powder drops with 700X. The only time I ever had a squib was with 700X. Did not meter will in my Lee Auto Disk. The remainder of the can became garden fertilizer.
     
    refuse2bafool likes this.
  23. refuse2bafool

    refuse2bafool Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2013
    Messages:
    76
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Echo the above sentiments. Good job taking the other posters advice. The small case capacity of the 9mm reduces your margin for error. I bet you will be happier and safer with a ball powder that meters well. HS6 and 231 have worked for me.

    You need to be very careful using really light loads with coarse flake powers such as 700x and Unique. They don't meter well. If I recall correctly, LEE advises you not to use cavities smaller than 0.4cc for flake powders. With 3.2 grains of 700X that is only about 0.43 cc’s if that particular batch of powder is at the max end of density (0.1343grains/cc).

    And yes, you are generally ok with charges for a bullet that is heavier than the bullet you are using as long as the bullet type is similar ie. lead vs. jacketed. Less mass to move = less resistance = less pressure. Still, ALWAYS start at the min when substituting any component. Actually change that to ALWAYS start a the min.
     
    hotshot357 likes this.
  24. rfwobbly

    rfwobbly Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    Messages:
    4,549
    Location:
    Cornelia, GA
    There are metering issues with 700X, but not performance issues. If you'll run more tests using Alliant Sport Pistol, your metering issues will resolve themselves. That in turn will give you MORE consistent loads and your accuracy will improve yet again.

    Hope this helps.
     
    hotshot357 and Demi-human like this.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice