I don't think I'd do so good in a gun fight.

[cool45auto]

I went to the range today after having to wait two weeks. I shot my SKS and wanted to shoot my Enfield but the ammo I had would go off a half second after the "click"! So I only shot the 5 rounds in it.

I shot my Neos a lot and had a real good time. I ran out of targets and was shooting cans someone left on the range. Good times.

Anyway, I always shoot my Beretta at either 7 or 10 yards. You see, I always thought if something ever happened it would be within these limits. Well I had some paper plates hanging at 25 yards and thought I'd try those today. Standing and shooting I only got about half my shots (15 cause I shoot two mags at a time at a target) on the plate! When I sat down and used the bench I got them all in a nice little group. By "little" I mean about a 6" circle.

I'm just now getting to where I think I can shoot my Beretta okay. I don't flinch or blink and I'll squeeze the trigger untill it kinda surprises me when it goes off.

I have got to start practicing the longer distances. Okay, I feel better now.

 

[Country Boy]

I'm no great shakes with a handgun at distances over 15 yards. I definitly need more quality practice in that regard.

 

[BerettaNut92]

Why so far with the pistol? What sight picture setup do you have with your Vertec?

I think I got better groups w/ my Beretta than an SKS.

 

[cool45auto]

Standard white three-dot set up. You read about how good guns group at 25 yards so I thought I'd try it since the targets were out there already. When you shoot in tournaments what's the farthest you have to shoot Nina?

 

[Kharn]

At 7 yards, no matter the handgun, I'm 6" low and 6" left (I'm a righty). I figure my pistols are solely to keep everyone's heads down while I run for a longgun, unless the attackers all bleed out really quickly from kidney shots.

Kharn

 

[Bowlcut]

Oh i hear ya. I cant hardly keep a disernable group at 25 yards. Thats what we used to shoot ALL the time. As the out door range only has 25, 50, 100 yards. Until we made some stands of our own for shorter distances. It did help me tho as at a shorter distance i actualy group somewhat logicaly. All this from a standing position no rests at all

 

[280PLUS]

i wish i could take all you marginal shooters aside for a little range time, i'll bet i could improve most anybodys shootin' within a small amount of time.

try finding a local instructor, just a few lessons and some educated input will help immensely with your grouping.

the US army marksmanship unit's "advanced pistol guide" is another good source of info, though geared more for those with champion marksmanship in mind. it is available online FREE for the downloading,,,but i'm not sure where at the moment

maybe someone else here knows the address?

happy shootin"

m

 

[WonderNine]

I generally shoot handgun at 25-40 yards. Rarely do I shoot closer than that. It's more challenging and I think it will make you much better up close. I'm no IPDA champ, but sometimes I have my days. I was horrible when I started, my shooting technique was all wrong. That said, I think I should start mixing in close range 15 yards or so more with the normal range shots.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Longer distance hand gun shooting is traditional, but impractical. I continue to shoot at 50 and 75 feet because I'm an old bullseye shooter; in the unlikely event I'd ever need to shoot in self-defense, however, I'm sure it would be at five to ten feet.

Not to worry, eh?

 

[Marko Kloos]

The vast majority of self-defense shootings occur at seven yards or less, with a significant part being less than seven feet. If it's 25 yards away, you ought to be running the other way, not shooting at it...unless the bad guy holds a rifle.

 

[Doc]

Cool9:

I recommend practice. Practice at all distances ALOT. Any skill requires practice, fine motor skills take 300-500 reps to learn and 3000-5000 reps to be put into muscle memory.

I usually start at short distances, shoot for accuracy with both hands. Focus on front sight and press. Sounds trivial but its necessary. Ask Todd Jarrett he'll say the same.)

I move out slowly to further distances and after going out as far as I want, bring the targets back in and start over with weak hand etc. After my first group I draw from holster with each shot string (for practice).

I usually start at 5 yds and work out to 20yds. but that's just mme..

Doc

 

[Teufelhunden]

This past weekend I ran a 8.5" X 11" sheet of paper out to 25 yards and hit it 25 times out of 25 rounds with my Springfield XD. There wasn't a nice pretty group in one place on the paper, but I'm more concerned about minute-of-chest than I am about pretty groups.

Granted, unless the other guy's got a longarm, I'm going to have a hard time justifying why I shot him that far away, but it's nice to know I can do it.

Oddly enough, it would appear I shoot better at long range with my Marine Corps issue Beretta--I get a nice group in the black even though I don't generally like the weapon because I have small hands.

-Teuf

 

[Devonai]

That's why they make 15-round magazines.

I had to practice for years to be combat effective with my Beretta, and if I don't practice a couple of times a month I go downhill real fast.

 

[BerettaNut92]

Majority is between 5-15 yards, sometimes 25-35 but not often. I think there was a steel plate at 80 yards but that was only once.

Usually steel plates, 5-15 is paper.

I like the cut-the-target-in-half sight picture. I can always drive the dots up close where it's about speed but I can't always get precision with a 'drive the dots' picture.

 

[Majic]

Throw away all those targets and just toss some cans out as far as you can throw them. To hit small you got to aim small.
We got a game called "Hit the Can". You toss out one can and take turns shooting at it. Each shot costs a $0.25 and it goes in the kitty. When you miss you are out and the last shooter hits his shot wins the kitty. If the last shooter misses then the kitty rolls over to the next game. As long as the can is visible you have to take your shot or forfeit. Soon you will be aiming for certain spots on the can to make it move. Your groups will difinately shrink then.

Not all handgunning is self-defence or combat shooting. Plinking and hunting will do more for building accuracy at various ranges.

 

[Trebor]

Kharn,

Low and left (for a right handed shooter) is a pretty common sign of a trigger control problem or "flinching." I had the same problem for a long time, but finally corrected it through practice and lots of dry-fire. Work on a smooth, straight-back pull and do some dry fire practice as well and you should be able to work through the problem.

I've actually had to change the sights on my adjustable sight guns because now they shoot high and right. The sights were actually set to compensate for my low and left groups.

Rob

 

[Powderman]

Kharn:

The shots to the left mean you don't have enough finger on the trigger. Try a bit more.

The low means you are either a. pushing off, or b. not gripping your pistol high enough. Use a firm, consistent grip.

If you have small hands, consider a gun with a smaller grip size.

 

[firestar]

Just keep shooting that .22 a lot and you will see yourself getting better and better with all handguns.

 

[Kharn]

Most of my handgun time up to this point has been with my two 1911s, both in .45. Not the most ideal newbie guns (but they fit my hands well, just the caliber is too large for starting off) and I believe my bad aim is mainly due to flinching (I know I'm doing the 'close-eyes-while-pulling-trigger'-thing), but I got really good deals on both. At the moment, I'm just counting the hours until I can visit the gunstore with cash in hand to have them hold a nice-looking used Ruger MkII Government until one gun a month lets me buy it. Once I get that, trigger time and serious target practice will occur a lot more often.

Kharn

 

[Art Eatman]

Kharn, shooting low left is common when you squeeze with all the fingers instead of just the trigger finger. It's called "wristing".

Try this: Hold your strong hand out as though it's holding a pistol. Put your weak hand on your strong-side forearm and feel the muscle motion as you 1) Squeeze with all fingers, as in clenching your fist; then, 2) squeeze only the trigger finger.

You'll see that your fist will shift somewhat with #1, but not with #2.

IMO, it's best to work at five and seven yards until you get competent at trigger control and eye-finger coordination. When you're really good up close and personal, then work at longer distances.

A good game for eye-trigger control is to draw a bunch of nickel-sized circles on a target. It is possible to cut out this nickel with seven rounds of .45ACP SWC. Try it.

I'm built sorta long-armed and rangy, so a Weaver stance is easy for me. In the Weaver, your strong-side arm functions as the buttstock of a shotgun: It is, effectively, the rear sight alignment. So, then, it's just "Front sight, press." If the front sight is on the target when your finger presses the trigger--without wristing--you hit the target.

Go practice.

, Art

 

[NonServiam]

US army marksmanship unit's "advanced pistol guide"

This, and much more, at http://www.bullseye.com.

Good stuff, but you can't read your way to better shooting. Getting instruction is an excellent idea.

 

[Master Blaster]

Low left is what ART said, also flinching for a right hander, also known as recoil anticipation, that is why you need to concentrate on the front sight, and on slowly pressing the trigger with only your trigger finger. If you reload make up two dummy rounds NO primer or powder, but your bullet crimped firmly to the case,
mix these dummies into your loaded magazine WHEN PRACTICING ONLY. They will feed as normal rounds but when you press the trigger anthere is no boom, you will be able to see the flinch, and work on controling it. As you get better speed up your shooting. You may "have 15 rounds" but in a self defense situation you want to hit the target with the first one. Misses are a hazard to you and any bystanders.

The other thing to watch for is dropping your head when you fire that will also make the gun dip and cause low shots.


www.bullseyepistol.com has the AMU manual on the site as well as good shooting tips.

Practice hitting the target slowly, fast misses dont count.

The idea that "minute of chest" is good enough makes me think of those spray and pray shootings by the Philly police 50 rounds fired in a crowded neigborhood no hits. If you are under stress and the target is moving and you are moving those six inch "groups" are going to open up alot, into total misses.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Groups & Defensive Shooting

Words from my old instructor:

Grouping isn't a useful concept in defensive shooting. If you've shot an organ once, you've pretty much destroyed it, so shooting that same organ again isn't gonna stop the bad guy any faster.

Farnam's test for defensive proficiency is something like 11 rounds at a 20cm x 30cm target @ 7 yards. You've got to hit all rounds anywhere in that target, reload once, and deal with a dummy round in your mag in like 20 seconds. You must move laterally before firing, and during reload.

 

[Dave R]

Keep practicing at 25 yards and you will get better at it. Its all about steady hold, consistent sight picture, and trigger control. If you have a lousy trigger, its almost impossible, because the muscles activating that stiff trigger are also trying to hold the pistol steady.

Its true that you should never have to take a 25 yard shot in a defensive scenario. But you can't script all the scenarios in advance...

And if you can shoot well at 25 yards, you'll shoot REALLY well at 7-15 yards.

 

[treeprof]

Longer distances are where shooting flaws really show up, and can be a good diagnostic tool.

Only person I know to have fired in SD did so at 21 yds w/a J frame. 2 fer 2 on the BG.