I Don't Trust my Lee Auto-Disk

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Capt Roy

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I still new to reloading and am really enjoying it.

The problem I'm having is with my Lee Auto-Disk with Lee Pro update and Adjustable Charge Bar.

I'm using a Lee Turret press.

I'm using titegroup for my 9mm and want to throw 4.1 grains for my 124 MG CMJ's.

When I set my Lee to 4.1 I get different charges.. I did a little test today... Through 10 charges and dumped them back to ensure flow was good.

I checked 20 of today and here's what I got: 4.1, 4.3, 4.1, 4.2, 4.2, 4.3, 4.2, 4.2, 4.3, 4.2, 4.4, 4.2, 4.3, 4.3, 4.3, 4.2, 4.0, 4.2, 4.3, 4.1..

I don't think this is good as 4.4 is max for titegroup.

I have loaded over 100 of 4.1 9mm using my Chargemaster 1500 dispenser and scale. They have shot fine in my SA1911-A1 and XDm 9mm. I can use the Chargemaster, but it is a little slow dispensing each round.. I only got about a 80 or so in a couple hours yesterday..

Has anyone else had this problem with the Lee Auto-Disk..Any suggestions... Maybe a better meter for the press..

Thanks for your input..

Capt Roy
 
Yea... I guess I'm slow as can be.. I waited for each charge to stablize before I poured it in the case.. Maybe speed will come with time as I get more confident...
 
Worrying about the wrong things

My ChargeMaster dispenses very fast and accurately and I can load with it, but it is a bit more twisting and turning then simply operating the press. The most I ever wait is for the reading after the charge count. Please remember that reloading is a ±0.1gn activity and you are trying to make it a ±0.05 activity.
I have been unsuccessful ever getting the charge bar to work. The cavity does not line up with the discharge opening to the measure. I scratch my head over how it works for anyone—including you.
I find the disks to be excellent and I would use the 0.34cc cavity. You can't get the exact weight you think you want (the 0.34cc will give you about 4.0gn), but it is close enough that your gun will never know the difference.
If you want to dial in a specific weight, you need the Lee Perfect Powder Measure or other measure—MidwayUSA has a sale on a Lyman measure and you can get Lyman's powder-through expansion die and inserts. If you want the "best" powder measure that will automatically cycle like the Pro Auto-Disk, get the Hornady L-N-L and activator or the Dillon measure and correct die inserts. Both are excellent, but I would get the Dillon.
 
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Did you get all the static out of the hopper? Some powders drop better than others, and I have no experiance with TG, to know how it flows. I coat all the cavities that I use with pencil lead, make sure you have no static, and the measure will throw consistant. I have had no luck with the charge bar either, and would settle on a disc. Washing the hopper with hot soapy water, and air dry to remove static, or wipe with a dryer sheet, or both.
 
"What powder were you using?"
OP:
I'm using titegroup for my 9mm and want to throw 4.1 grains
Click to expand...


The problem I'm having is with my ... Adjustable Charge Bar.
Click to expand...
Capt Roy, that's the source of your problem. I found adjustable charge bar sensitive to the types of powder used (small flattened ball vs large flake) and inconsistent at small charges less than 4.0 grains.

Some suggest that you tap the hopper to properly "fill" the charge bar but I find this to be tedious.

Why not just use the Auto Disk? For me, Auto Disk drops accurately even for small loads like 3.4-3.7 gr of W231/HP38/Green Dot/Bullseye (Yes I know, the chart varies from the actual weighed powder charge, but it is the CONSISTENCY of drops that I care about - if the charge-to-charge variance is less than 0.1 gr, I am a happy camper).

The .34 disk hole for Titegroup should drop 4.0 grains and .37 disk hole 4.4 grains. My guess would be the actual weighed charges maybe different, probably 3.8/3.9 gr - 4.2/4.3 gr. Check the weights and see what you get.

If you get consistent charge weights of 3.9, you could decrease the OAL a bit, say 0.005" (and if you get 4.2, you could increase the OAL by 0.005").

Hope this helps.
 
It'll stabilize some in time. If you want exact measures, you have to use your scale. If I were you I'd dial back the charge bar to dispense 0.1 gr less and go with that. The disks might give you slightly more consistent measures, but you might not be able to dial it in as close to the desired measure as you can with the charge bar. That variance is the price of the increased loading speed, other volume measures may not do better and it varies greatly with powder type.
 
I suppose you could always slightly enlarge the hole of one of your disks to give you the volume you wanted, but for 9mm, I'd just use a charge that's pretty close and not worry about it.

I bet if you weighed the charges in some commercial ammo you'd get a larger variation than your might first expect, but I could be very wrong.
 
Any powder measure needs to be checked with a scale to see how well its dispensing. To get the most uniform dispensing of powder you must work the measure in a repeatable way using the same motion with the same force each time. Also you will usually find that a particular measure will meter one type of powder better than another.

Tight Group is a very fine grain and dense powder that takes up little volume for the weight and unless the measure will handle such small amounts well you may need to go to another type of measure or modification to the measure itself.

My Hornady powder measure for example will dispense pistol powders very uniformly down to around 10grs with the standard metering tube but if you want to throw small mounts of fast powder and get uniform throws you need to use a pistol metering insert that has a smaller chamber and is only capable of a smaller amount of range in charges. This is mostly a volume issue and the larger standard meter is needed for the relatively light throws of Trail Boss which is a high volume powder while the pistol meter is definitely required for charges of Tight Group that my be 2X the weight of the TB.

Try Lee's customer support to see if they have a solution to your tight group metering issue.
 
The .37 disk was giving me a nominal 4.2 gr. That is a very good shooting load, using the same 124 gr FMJ. I do well with the charge bar but not with that powder. It is on my Bullseye setup.
 
Capt Roy:

I loaded 2 boxes of 9mm Luger today in about an hour (100 rds).

And got almost the exact same results as you.
99% of my rounds fell within .1 gr. I was loading 3.9 gr titegroup
I had zero that were +.2 or more and 3 that were -.2 (3.7 gr)
I'm not loading for match accuracy so I thought my Lee Pro Auto Disc was just fine.

If you want better control, you're gonna have to weigh each drop.
 
Has anyone else had this problem with the Lee Auto-Disk..Any suggestions... Maybe a better meter for the press..

Thanks for your input..

Capt Roy
Click to expand...

Yes I had the same problem with Titegroup and the adjustable charge bar. I took it out and went back to the normal disk. I found one that will throw 4.2 grains and it will throw it all day long with no variation. I would suggest going back to the normal disk and see if that doesn't help.
 
Again, if anyone can get the charge bar to work, I would love to hear what the secret is. As far as I can see, the cavity does not fall under the hopper discharge opening.
Next, all measures should have a hopper of powder (that is black with graphite) discharged through it to get the parts coated with graphite. You can also buy some powdered graphite and feed it through (then be sure to blow out any residual graphite—you just want the parts coated).
For my Pro Auto-Disk, I have used Frankford Arsenal (?) bullet mold conditioner (which is a graphite spray) to coat the top of the disks and the metal base where the disks slide back and forth.
TiteGroup—my can is a real PITA. Even with anti-static treatment, it clumps up in the hopper (Auto-Disk, Perfect Powder Measure, Hornady L-N-L measure and the Dillon measure) and coats all the parts of the measure. I have had many partial dumps followed by over-dumps. So far, I hate handling it and none of my loads with it have been worth the frustration.
 
I've never had a problem with the Auto-Disc and Titegroup- it's my primary powder and I've loaded a LOT of it. At least 16 pounds to my direct knowledge. No static, no clumping, drops are accurate to +0.0/-0.1 grains. I load either the 'A' .34 (4.0) or 'A' .37 (4.4) depending on what gun it's going in- but I'd say 90% of my 9mm is loaded with the nominal 4.4 grain drop which usually averages out to 4.3 grains, with a 125gr bullet. The drop is sometimes 4.2 grains, NEVER over 4.4 grains, and it shoots great every shot.

Pistols are not like rifles in that the barrels are not long enough for harmonics to be a problem, and the ranges are short- a charge +/- .1 or .2 grain isn't a big deal in most cases.

The adjustable charge bar is really IMHO not that useful in that its repeatability is not that great. I do not use it personally (but I have one that gathers dust).
 
Capt Roy: I bought the charge bar with high expectations but I never used it after my first test runs. It was not consistent in it's throws with Win 231 or Vit n320.

I do modify disc holes to get my sweet spot loads.

I find a hole slightly 'too small' and drill "from the bottom" of the disc with a drillbit just a skosh larger than the hole. I drill a short ways then test the drop. If it's still light, I drill a little farther. When it gets just the drop I want, I "RENUMBER" that hole with the number between the factory hole numbers and 'add this new number to the chart. Because the holes are volumetric, my new hole will work on the hole chart as well as any other hole for any listed powder. With the powders I use, the disc system is amazingly consistent.

The discs are $5 each. It's not too much money to get just the amount of powder you want.

Anyone want to swap something for an adj. charge bar??
 
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I have found with my Lee adjustable charge bar I can throw AA#2 all the way down to 2.8gr consistantly, without problems. I also run 2400 through it regularly, with charges from 14.5 all the way to 21gr(thats the max it will throw with 2400). I have yet to have a problem with it. Using Bullseye, Power Pistol, 2400, AA#2 it works great. 700x, thats a whole nother story!
 
hey, noylj:

"Again, if anyone can get the charge bar to work, I would love to hear what the secret is. As far as I can see, the cavity does not fall under the hopper discharge opening...."​

1) You either do not have the hopper oriented properly, or 2) do not have the ACB oriented to the activating lever properly--more likely, the former.

Most of us using the Lee measures do figure out which slot the actuating lever fits in--so my guess is that you have the hopper screwed on back-asswards. Sorry, I don't have pictures handy--but double-check that orientation.

Jim H.
 
Hijacked the thread!

The two ACBs I have have a little cavity that the actuating lever fits in. The cavity is towards the front and the adjusting bolt is to the rear. The adjusting bar can't go to the front. When I put either ACB in the cavity, it does not align with the hopper discharge. If I open the ACB up almost all the way, powder will FINALLY enter the cavity. I know, because I was just playing with it one more time last night.
I think that I am doing things right and can not see any other way to install the ACB, but it would be nice if Lee would ever give decent directions and actually show one part installed in another. They have the briefest instructions I have ever seen. I imagine that the LoadMaster manual is probably four pages, at the most.
 
noylj said:
Again, if anyone can get the charge bar to work, I would love to hear what the secret is.
Click to expand...
The context of my success with it is that I use it with the regular Auto Disk, not the "Pro" version with the silo hopper. I couldn't say whether the "Pro" is compatible or not.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions.. Since it is a rainy, crappy day I'm going to try the auto disks and may get my drill out...

I'm going to the Shot Show in Jan and plan to have a discussion with the Lee reps..
 
Capt Roy, it's been posted that the shape of the charge bar cavity at smaller charges that causes inconsistent drops (the cavity forms an oval instead of a circle).

Some have modified the shape of the charge bar cavity (reshaping or using bondo) with good success. I am planning to modify my adjustable charge bar and will post pics when I do.
 
I like Titegroup, used it for years, but maybe a powder with greater volume/grain would help make your measure more accurate. SR 7625 is a good candidate.

I 'double tap' my measure after reading some advice from the old timers on another forum.
Two taps at the top of the stroke, two at the bottom, seems to help consistency with difficult powders.
 
back to the noylj threadjack--

OK, we'll assume you have the lever inserted in the proper slot in the ACB.

If your measure is a Pro / Deluxe / latest upgrade with the circular hopper and shutoff base. Make sure it is oriented so that the curved shape of the base is "matched" to the same shape on the hopper.

Now--if the hopper assembly is correct, then the final problem to address is that your dies are all maladjusted. Note that they may not be "wrong"--in the sense that you may size / deprime, flare, etc.al. properly--but the adjustments were not done in include setting the proper height for actuating the lever correctly.

IOW, your dies are all mounted "too low"--that's what prevents the actuator from moving the ACB to the proper location under the hopper--assuming you have the first two characteristics sorted out, of course.

Since we (southern) Minnesotans are having our first blizzard of the season and I'm not raking leaves today, I'll get downstairs to take a picture of this setup.

BTW, did we discuss what cartridge (die) type you are dealing with here? FWIW, I assume it is (straight wall) pistol--although the .223 turret I have setup has no issues with full dispensing with an aftermarket ACB, either.

ketcmu.jpg

The turret / die and measure setup shown is for 357 Mag--I just finished reloading some "FBI900s" a couple of weeks ago.

Jim H.
 
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