I just joined the ACLU.

[Lupinus]

Kur-
I don't care if they wipe their backside with a copy of it and throw in it Bush's face at his next public chit chat. They are one of the major orgs in this county abusing the system for their form of advancment. They support some of the biggist idiots this country has to offer. I don't care what they do short of a total reformation. The few good things they do don't balance out the idiocy. And they only support their brand of free speech, no more no less.

 

[longhorngunman]

Well the Patriot Act got voted to be extended yesterday and I'm completely fine with it. Maybe some of you haven't noticed but there is a war going on and the act allows us to find TERRORISTS, what a concept. And after reading some of DR other posts I hope he UPS's next day air his membership check to the ACLU. He'll fit in great with that "organization".

 

[dracphelan]

You also get the benefit of helping to defend NAMBLA

What's wrong with the National Association of Marlon Brando Look Alikes?

 

[Manedwolf]

Honestly I think that's just a cop-out to ensure their primarily-liberal supporters don't go nuts. If the Supreme Court established a position affirming the individual right to keep and bear arms, I think we'd see the ACLU start opposing gun control more forcefully. For the moment the fact that they don't support gun control, coupled with their views on several areas I agree with, made me decide to join them.

They most certainly do not say that only the government can own guns.

Yeah, I definitely will start comparing their begging drives. The NRA has really impressed me with their ability to plead for money.

Cop-out = appeasement = compromises = loss of gun rights.
If you believe in something, you STAND for it.

 

[natedog]

Well the Patriot Act got voted to be extended yesterday and I'm completely fine with it. Maybe some of you haven't noticed but there is a war going on and the act allows us to find TERRORISTS, what a concept.

The same arguments were made in 1798, 1861, and 1918. Doesn't make it right- I must've missed the part in the Constitution that said rights may be suspended in a time of war.

 

[Manedwolf]

I'm doing nothing to help stop the Patriot Act.

Buddy

I do, however, disagree with the Patriot Act. It's sloppy, and is likely to harm far more innocent Americans than it is to capture any terrorists. (And how about that lack of PORT SECURITY yet, guys?)

The Patriot Act is akin to a badly trained cop running around in a crowd waving a gun and shouting at people because one MIGHT be a criminal.

And people who don't oppose it..well, if YOU someday get on a "bad" list because of an uncaring gov't clerk's data entry error, and you can't do a thing about it, don't dare come back crying about it.

 

[c_yeager]

Well the Patriot Act got voted to be extended yesterday and I'm completely fine with it. Maybe some of you haven't noticed but there is a war going on and the act allows us to find TERRORISTS, what a concept.

Gun control helps us to keep people from shooting CHILDREN, what a concept. The NRA supports KILLING sweat little babies.

 

[DelayedReaction]

Well the Patriot Act got voted to be extended yesterday and I'm completely fine with it. Maybe some of you haven't noticed but there is a war going on and the act allows us to find TERRORISTS, what a concept. And after reading some of DR other posts I hope he UPS's next day air his membership check to the ACLU. He'll fit in great with that "organization".

I sent it electronically; they had my money instantly.

Hey, I'll take what you said as a compliment. If you really think the Patriot Act has anything to do with catching terrorists and nothing to do with annihilating civil liberties in the name of expanding the federal government's power, then more power to you. The 'War on Terror' is identical to the 'War of Drugs' and every other 'War' we've had; it's an ineffectual waste of taxpayer money that produces little real benefit.

Do you know how many representatives actually read the Patriot Act before blindly voting on it like sheep? Do you really think our government needs secret courts to judge and convict american citizens far from public scrutiny? Would you feel the same way were one of your family members to disappear, and agents informing you that you can't say anything or else you would be convicted?

What other rights are you happy to sacrifice in the name of personal security? Did you support California's ban on .50 caliber weaponry? After all, it was partially done in the name of defending terrorists!

If you really think our President is placing a sincere effort into defending our nation against Terrorists, then why has he run off to fight a war when the home front is still porous and exposed? Why haven't all of the recommendations of the 9/11 Committee been implemented? Why does our nation still lack effective communication avenues between the various emergency organizations? Why are our borders porous and exposed, and our President insulting proactive groups such as the Minutemen?

We live in a country where our freedoms are snatched away in the night and replaced with a palpably false sense of security. You are perfectly free to enjoy it, but I'd prefer something that would work.

Cop-out = appeasement = compromises = loss of gun rights.
If you believe in something, you STAND for it.

That's why I joined the NRA.

 

[femoralis]

The ACLU opposes the 2nd ammendment.

The ACLU supports the legalization of possession of real child pornography on 1st ammendment grounds.

Why do you want to be a part of these people?

 

[boofus]

Give me George Bush and the Patriot Act any day. At least Bush leaves you with the tools necessary to remove him if he oversteps his bounds.

There is no doubt if the Anti-american Communist Lawyers Union gets into power they won't leave you the same option. In fact you can see how they operate by how they treat the 1st Amendment. They frequently leave out the section that says 'nor prohibit free exercise [of religion]'. I've heard ACLU scum recite the Bill of Rights on that garbage Pacifika radio sh*t and they left out the free exercise of religion and the 2nd Amendment completely.

The NRA is nothing like NAMBLA. There ARE lawful uses for firearms in all 50 states. There is absolutely NO case where child molestation is lawful in all 50 states of the union.

 

[DelayedReaction]

The ACLU opposes the 2nd ammendment.

The ACLU supports the legalization of possession of real child pornography on 1st ammendment grounds.

Why do you want to be a part of these people?

Because both of those statements are false.

The ACLU has remained neutral on the issue of gun control. They stated that they support the collectivist interpretation of the 2nd Amendment (which I disagree with), but have never made a statement supporting gun control or banning guns. Please show me evidence to the contrary, if it exists. In fact, the ACLU has even argued in the support of firearms from a 4th Amendment perspective.

A Denver appeals court further eroded the Fourth Amendment by allowing police to ask stopped motorists whether they have a loaded gun, a civil liberties lawyer said Thursday.

"How many of these things have to happen before we realize we're living in a police state and not a place governed by the Constitution?" asked Micheal Salem, a volunteer attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union.

http://www.armed-citizens.com/news/armdcitz_news.php?doit=yes&newsid=698

As for the child pornography statement, please provide proof. The ACLU protects virtual child pornography, in which no child was use. Frankly I find any form of pornography that features children to be distateful, but banning one thing because it copies another without actually harming anyone is wrong.

The ACLU opposes child pornography that uses real children in its depictions. Material, however, which is produced without using real children, and is not otherwise obscene, is protected under the First Amendment.

http://www.aclu.org//privacy/speech/14793leg20020508.html

 

[longrifleman]

Give me George Bush and the Patriot Act any day

I don't want Bush and the Patriot Act OR the American Communist Liars Union.

I've been watching the ACLU for most of my adult life, and I think they are one of the most dangerous organizations this country faces. Their goal is the complete destruction of America as we know it , and the creation of a one world (communist) govt. One of the first things they are trying to do is the elimination of religion from society. They ultimately won't allow allegance to anything higher than THEIR god, which is the state. I'm an agnostic, and I thank God? every day that I live in a society based on the principles laid down in the Bible.

Don't be fooled by the occasional case that supports liberty. They come from two sources. The ACLU has state chapters as well as the national leadership. The local chapters will have lawyers that aren't necessarily part of the overall goal and will take cased at odds with the long term goal. The national leadership likes a few of these cases to point to to deflect critisim, and confuse well meaning people.

Another reason is to maintain their fredom of operation untill they gain enough power to eliminate any opposition to their goals. Once they gain that power, freedom won't last long. If you pay attention, you can see the real attitude poking through. Their attitude towards an armed citizenry is a prime example.

Supporting them may look good in the short term, but the friend you get when you accept "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" will likely stab you in the back at the first opportunity. Good luck.

 

[DelayedReaction]

One of the first things they are trying to do is the elimination of religion from society.

How do they eliminate religion from society by supporting cases that defend an individual's right to worship? When they provided an amicus brief to overturn Virginia's law preventing the incorporation of churches, how was that eroding America's faith?

The ACLU is dead set against government-sponsored support of a single religion. If you can show me one example of where the ACLU opposed the PRIVATE practice of religion, I'll be impressed. If you can show me one example of where the ACLU promoted COMMUNISM, I'll be impressed.

Please, take off the tinfoil hat and show me the evidence.

 

[buzz_knox]

On second thought, it's just not worth it.

 

[rock jock]

How do they eliminate religion from society by supporting cases that defend an individual's right to worship?

Where is the ACLU when a student is expelled for praying in school, or bring a Bible to the lunchroom, or wearing a shirt with a Bible verse on it? You're right, the ACLU is not anti-religion - they are anti-Christian.

 

[Mongo the Mutterer]

How do they eliminate religion from society by supporting cases that defend an individual's right to worship? When they provided an amicus brief to overturn Virginia's law preventing the incorporation of churches, how was that eroding America's faith?

The ACLU is dead set against government-sponsored support of a single religion. If you can show me one example of where the ACLU opposed the PRIVATE practice of religion, I'll be impressed. If you can show me one example of where the ACLU promoted COMMUNISM, I'll be impressed.

Please, take off the tinfoil hat and show me the evidence.

From Discover the Network -- re the ACLU:

--Co-founder Roger Baldwin stated, "I seek social ownership of property, the abolition of the properties class, and sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal."

--Driving force behind the anti-Patriot Act movement

--Named as a key member of the Open Borders Lobby in the pamphlet The Open Borders Lobby and the Nation's Security After 9/11, written by William Hawkins and Erin Anderson

--Defends Palestinian Islamic Jihad leader and funder Sami Al-Arian

Now, give me some examples of the abuses of the Patriot Act. All I hear is unsubstantiated claims. "when they come for you ... " BS. "When your name is on a list..." BS.

The ACLU are communists, plain and simple. They aren't for the Patriot act because they are afraid that someone witll look into their activities.

 

[dmallind]

Join an organization founded by a communist? Not me.

Maybe i shouldn't mention this then, but the author of the Pledge of Allegiance was a Socialist. I don't think it's rational to condemn ANY organization - on any imagined or real political side of the aisle, because of acts (let alone words) of their founders'. After all how many times are we reminded some of the country's founders owned slaves and defended slavery?

 

[dmallind]

Where is the ACLU when a student is expelled for praying in school, or bring a Bible to the lunchroom, or wearing a shirt with a Bible verse on it? You're right, the ACLU is not anti-religion - they are anti-Christian.

Where is a citation for any of these things? Prayer in school is not even banned - neither prayer of teachers or students, alone or in groups. Teacher-LED prayer or prayer as a part of an official schhol event is banned. I was in my daughter's high school yesterday - several prayer groups are not only there but actively advertising their presence. No expulsions.

Bible verses? Well the ones that promote hatred may have some problems but the same sentiments would regardless of their origin. If a kid is expelled for wearing the Beatitudes on a shirt I'd expect the ACLU to back them. I would too, even though I don't share the religion.

Bringing a bible to the lunchroom? Same thing - perfectly legal, protected behavior for either teacher or student, and long may it remain so for the Bible, Qu'ran, Torah, Vedas, Satanic rituals or heck even logic primers. Teacher reading bible verses to captive audience? Not legal or protected.

Meanwhile here's proof the ACLU is anti-religious and anti-Christian......

http://www.aclu.org//religion/tencomm/16254res20050302.html

 

[Kim]

He drank the kool-aid it is too late. Live and learn. I will alwyas stand opposed for liberty and justice to the most dangerous organization (the ACLU). We will just have to be on opposite sides in that respect.

 

[DelayedReaction]

From Discover the Network -- re the ACLU:

Now, give me some examples of the abuses of the Patriot Act. All I hear is unsubstantiated claims. "when they come for you ... " BS. "When your name is on a list..." BS.

The ACLU are communists, plain and simple. They aren't for the Patriot act because they are afraid that someone witll look into their activities.

No, the founder of the ACLU was a communist. The ACLU is not. Conveniently enough I am both a member of the ACLU and NOT a communist. Funny how that works out.

Want examples of Patriot Act abuses?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act_controversy

Unfortunately most of the potentially serious abuses of the Patriot Act can be performed in secret. From the article above:

FBI agents used a USA PATRIOT Act "sneak and peek" search to secretly examine the home of Brandon Mayfield, who was wrongfully jailed for two weeks on suspicion of involvement in the Madrid train bombings. Agents seized three hard drives and ten DNA samples preserved on cotton swabs, and took 335 photos of personal items. Mayfield has filed a lawsuit against the U.S. government, contending that his rights were violated by his arrest and by the investigation against him. He also contends the USA PATRIOT ACT is unconstitutional.

We live in a very scared and paranoid world. For an example of just how scared, look into the life of Dr. Steven Hatfill. Despite his life being ruined by implications and suggestion as a result of being declared as a 'person of interest,' NOTHING incriminating has been found against him!

Further examples of abuses include BABIES being barred from flying as a result of being placed on no-fly lists. And do we really need to go into the atrociously inefficient and ineffectual abomination that is the TSA?

 

[Manedwolf]

Where is the ACLU when a student is expelled for praying in school, or bring a Bible to the lunchroom, or wearing a shirt with a Bible verse on it? You're right, the ACLU is not anti-religion - they are anti-Christian.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

(Note what I emphasized...can't prohibit religion, and you ALSO cannot establish a state religion...which is precisely what certain groups are trying to do!)

And from the Treaty of Tripoli, 1796:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

Sorry. The founding fathers intended a NONRELIGIOUS government, where all were free to follow the religion of their choice. Distortion by TaliBaptist evangelists nonwithstanding, please read the original writings.

 

[Manedwolf]

From Discover the Network -- re the ACLU:

Now, give me some examples of the abuses of the Patriot Act. All I hear is unsubstantiated claims. "when they come for you ... " BS. "When your name is on a list..." BS.

The ACLU are communists, plain and simple. They aren't for the Patriot act because they are afraid that someone witll look into their activities.

While you might not agree with their stance (and I don't, either), calling various groups "commies" as a label went out with poodle skirts and Joe McCarthy.

 

[Mongo the Mutterer]

You know, it is not real smart to be known as a Communist organization in this country. Do you think they would really tell you?

They are an anti American NGO who wish to turn this nation into a secular nanny state. If they were for "liberties" they would be out front on 2A. They aren't, and there never will be a time when they are. Where were they representing our "liberties" when the socialist suckweasels in the Klinton era passed the AWB?

 

[Manedwolf]

You know, it is not real smart to be known as a Communist organization in this country. Do you think they would really tell you?

They are an anti American NGO who wish to turn this nation into a secular nanny state. If they were for "liberties" they would be out front on 2A. They aren't, and there never will be a time when they are. Where were they representing our "liberties" when the socialist suckweasels in the Klinton era passed the AWB?

Y'know it's not 1955 anymore, right?

And hey, we have fascist organizations. Ever read the doctrine on the PNAC's website? Mussolini would have smiled.

BTW, as to "nanny state", what do you call religio-thug groups who want to dictate what consenting adults do in their own homes? That's not "nanny" enough? (Besides the fact that their leaders keep getting caught in affairs, child molestation, etc...)

 

[femoralis]

If the ACLU now supports the illegality of child pornography, then it has changed its view recently. I do have evidence of their past support of legalized possession of child pornography:

"ACLU Answers. Issue: Pornography" and is dated
September 23, 1991. It says:

"We support the prosecution of child pornographers under existing laws for
the harm they inflict on children. But we believe government may not
restrict the distribution of child pornography once it has been published."

http://www.rotten.com/library/culture/aclu/

Also, from 1997 in the Boston Herald:

"ACLU: New child-porn law won't pass court challenge.

A new law that makes it a felony to possess child pornography was met with ire from civil libertarians yesterday, who said the statute will face constitutional problems.

"Mere possession should not be a crime," said John Roberts, executive director of the Boston branch of the American Civil Liberties Union.

"This law really sweeps too far, and from an ACLU point of view, this really gets into areas that we believe are protected by the First Amendment," Roberts added. "

Source:

http://www.highbeam.com/library/doc...42&num=1&ctrlInfo=Round9h:Prod2:SR:Result&ao=

ACLU of central florida FAQ:

Why are you in favor of child porn?
The ACLU does not support pornography. But we do oppose virtually all forms of censorship. Possessing books or films should not make one a criminal. Once society starts censoring "bad" ideas, it becomes very difficult to draw the line. Your idea of what is offensive may be a lot different from your neighbors. The ACLU takes a very purist approach in opposing censorship. Our policy is that possessing pornographic material should not itself be a crime. The best way to combat child pornography is for the government to prosecute those who exploit children by making pornography and we strongly agree with the enforcement of such prosecutions.

Source

http://www.aclucentralflorida.org/questions.html