I just joined the ACLU.

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Manedwolf said:
While you might not agree with their stance (and I don't, either), calling various groups "commies" as a label went out with poodle skirts and Joe McCarthy.
Sure did Maned... and the Commies were real pleased when Joe went, and still are.

Ever wonder why McCarthy's name is tied with the House UnAmerican Activities Committee? He was a Senator... He had his own committee which was looking into infiltration in the government, not Hollywood. That's why he had to go. The HUAC was tied to him since it was tied to Hollywood stars. They wanted to direct attention AWAY from the government at all costs.
 
DelayedReaction said:
We live in a very scared and paranoid world. For an example of just how scared, look into the life of Dr. Steven Hatfill. Despite his life being ruined by implications and suggestion as a result of being declared as a 'person of interest,' NOTHING incriminating has been found against him!
I agree with you about Hatfill, but your argument about him has nothing to do with the Patriot Act, IMHO. The anthrax attacks were on 9/18/2001, the PA passed 10/26/2001. Please give me a reference how the PA was used against him.

The government and the NY Times smeared this man, and he most likely deserves compensation.
 
Compensation for the media smearing someone give me a break. They do this every day. Remember freedom of the press to lie and smear. You can say they have no shame which is true. But compensation. They are one of the most protected proaganda groups is the USA. They think they are so high and mighty and so educated and in the Know on everything. They rake in millions reading the so called news and gossiping with their pals. Then they have the nerve to comdem the capitalist system that allows them such luxurey. Hypocrits all just like the actors in Hollyweird.
 
MrTuffPaws said:
Congrats. If the right knew what was good for them, the would all be members of the ACLU
----------------------

Believe it or not, MrTuffPaws and I might actually agree here.
Well... kinda/sorta. Hear me out.

While I've never been accused of playing a Lefty on TV, I'll give you two oft-overlooked reasons why it could be in gun-owning conservatives' interests to JOIN the ACLU:

1. MEMBERSHIP SIZE: the last time I looked, the ACLU's membership was HALF the NRA's 4 million+. Oh, the ACLU wields influence disproportionate to its membership, but so does the NRA. The point here is, it wouldn't be difficult for Second Amendment advocates to do a "take-over" of the ACLU, i.e., influence its objectionable policies.

2. GUN CONFISCATION SCENARIO: this is THE big one for gun rights folks... and so few seem to realize it. Why? Well, let's say that the dreaded Registration-->> Confiscation scenario comes to pass. Then What?

This scenario was thorougly examined by "liberal" lawyers in Don Kates' nifty book "Gun Control: The Liberal Skeptics Speak Out" 25 years ago. Their bottom line conclusion is this: "confiscation" cannot happen (in the U.S.) because of our OTHER Constitutional rights... like the FOURTH Amendment (privacy, search & seizure, etc.). Numerous legal scholars contend (arguably, correctly) that any confiscation schemes would beget widespread civil disobedience. That would, in turn, beget oppressive government actions requiring suspension of the Constitution (espec. 4th Amendment) and Martial Law... to actually IMPLEMENT any confiscation.

And who would/should protest (and fight) such onerous (and likely very bloody/made for TV) Martial Law? Civil Rights activists/organizations... like the ACLU!

Hence, taking a Long-Term Outcomes view, the ONLY issue with the ACLU here is this: Will they support the REST of the Constitution (i.e., the 4A) if/when IT is breached/abused simply to effect "killing off" another right (the 2A) which they've historically objected to?

If NRA conservatives gradually infiltrate/take-over the ACLU, then the latter will not be able to waffle on this when Confiscation Crunch Time comes to pass. Checkmate.

Politics makes strange bedfellows.
 
Good for you

the ACLU does more for protecting freedoms than GW Bush does. I realize they dont support NAMBLA's actions as some here claim, they just support their rights. Quick duck! Another Red Herring will be slung at your head any second....
;)
CT
 
If you want to find out about a man (or organization),find out who his friends are and who his enemies are,and you've got the man. That is a rule of life to follow that will seldom fail you.
The friends of the ACLU hate our guts and would like to see us eliminated.The ACLU is a socialistic,communistic organization that is a true enemy of freedom loving,constitution believing Americans.
Having said that,good men and women can be deceived by sweet,polished words. That doesn't make them bad,just deceived.
SKIP
 
DelayedReaction said:
So I was switching through the channels when I saw Bill O'Reilly perform the bullet points segment on his show. According to him, the ACLU is a dangerous organization composed entirely of traitors. I had put some thought into whether or not I would join the ACLU (I already joined the NRA), and after looking it up a bit I decided it was worth doing.

I don't agree with every policy the ACLU has, particularly their stance on affirmative action, illegal immigration, and anti-hate laws. The death penalty I'm wavering on, but many of their policies are things I agree with. The separation of Church and State (I am a Christian), freedom of speech, drug reform, privacy, and several other aspects of person freedoms are things that both the ACLU and I agree on. I don't particularly like their silence on the issue of gun rights, but even with that taken into account I think they do more good than harm.

So I joined. Within the next few days my wallet will simultaneously contain membership cards from the ACLU and the NRA. I hope it doesn't catch fire.

Good for you. Overall they are a good group and doing good things FOR the constitution. I disagree with the official 2nd ammendment stance and they know it.
 
Mongo the Mutterer said:
I agree with you about Hatfill, but your argument about him has nothing to do with the Patriot Act, IMHO. The anthrax attacks were on 9/18/2001, the PA passed 10/26/2001. Please give me a reference how the PA was used against him.

The government and the NY Times smeared this man, and he most likely deserves compensation.

Hatfill wasn't investigated by the FBI until June of 2002.
http://www.americandaily.com/article/4625

The Patriot Act has been used to obtain search warrants against doctors and scientists who had been warning about the threat of bioterrorism in the U.S. The most prominent such cases are Dr. Steven Hatfill and now Dr. Kenneth Berry. No evidence has been produced against either man, but the highly publicized raids on their homes—and the media feeding frenzy—give the fleeting impression that the Bureau is making progress.

The same article references a Department of Justice Report which supposedly includes Steven Hatfill.

How about this. Provide me with a reference that supports the Patriot Act helping us effectively combat terrorism. We can all agree that this law strips away rights, so show me what we gain as a result of what we've lost.
 
Okay, when has there been a terrorist attack since 9/11/01?

To prove the PAct works you would have to go into every federal indictment since it went into effect and compare the gathering of evidence to what it would have been prior to the act. Not possible.

So your example of two people who were apparently affected negatively by the act, and who, btw are suing for compensation, and if warranted will probably gain it, stacks up against unknowns.

The unknowns being, first, how many times were the provisions of the PA used when the previous law would have prohibited the action.

Second unknown is how many BGs have been brought to justice due to this, or have been under surveillance since that time to gain better information.

Two citizens being hassled unjustly, and in the case of Dr. Hatfill, having their reputation destroyed is not good, but may be handled by compensation. Small price to pay for increased security IMO.
 
As usual, the continuing display of ignorance by my so-called allies in the fight to defend the right to keep and bear arms is appalling.

~G. Fink :(
 
Two citizens being hassled unjustly, and in the case of Dr. Hatfill, having their reputation destroyed is not good, but may be handled by compensation. Small price to pay for increased security IMO.

If you really think the Patriot Act has substantially increased your security, then no rational argument on my part is going to convince you otherwise. No false sense of security is worth the loss of my freedom.
 
Condolences

Wish we could have gotten to you in time. It's never to late to repent and see the ACLU for what they are. They only protect rights in a manner that promotes the world as they want it......"the perfect ACLU world." If you support their idea of how the world should be......then I can't help you.
 
DR, your worried about the loss of your freedom and then your helping an organization that supports Communism?:confused: Oh well, it's apparent you drank the Red kool-aid a long time ago. While on this topic, those who believe correctly that the ACLU is one of the most destructive forces in America today, a real domestic terrorist organization and would like to help oppose it should check out www.alliancedefensefund.org . This is a group of pro-America lawyers that fight in court against the ACLU and are becoming very successful at subverting the perversion that the ACLU represents.
 
http://www.armed-citizens.com/news/armdcitz_news.php?doit=yes&newsid=746
http://www.ccrkba.org/pub/rkba/general/ACLU.htm
http://www.ccrkba.org/pub/rkba/general/ACLUanti.htm
An image from the same ACLU Sentinel magazine as the link above
ACLU2.gif


"What about the 2nd Amendment?"
"We would be better off without it"

"Government reserves right to regulate distribution of firearms

Editor,
I am appalled by the audacity with which the leadership of the Second Amendment Club has attacked Ohio University's Student Senate.

They do so on the premise that student senate's resolution banning guns on campus somehow limits our "civil liberties." Exactly what version of the Bill of Rights is the Second Amendment Club reading?

Indeed, the Second Amendment, in its entirety, states "A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Proponents of the Second Amendment, more often than not, seem to abandon the first provision of a "well-regulated militia" altogether for their constant rants of a "right to bear arms." Moreover, the Constitution grants no specific individual right to gun ownership but a collective right of a people to rise up in arms in times of conflict.

For anyone to argue otherwise would be foolish.

Government — be it federal, state, local or campus-wide — has every right to regulate the sale, distribution and ownership of handguns as it is not specifically prohibited from doing so in our Constitution.

Because there was no violation of the Bill of Rights, student senate could not possibly have ignored any of the "civil liberties" the Second Amendment Club claimed it did. Before resorting to petty name calling and making false accusations, the Second Amendment Club should study our Constitution.

The only remedy for ignorance is, after all, education.

– Larry Hayman,
Executive Director,
American Civil Liberties Union of Ohio University
[email protected] "

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/con11.htm
" Nor does the ACLU believe that there is a significant civil liberties value
apart from the Second Amendment in an individual right to own or use firearms.
Interests of privacy and self-expression may be involved in any individual's
choice of activities or possessions, but these interests are attenuated where
the activity, or the object sought to be possessed, is inherently dangerous to
others. With respect to firearms, the ACLU believes that this quality of
dangerousness justifies legal regulation which substantially restricts the
individual's interest in freedom of choice."

That's all I need to know about that lot of gungrabbing communists. They use choice parts of the Constitution to undermine other parts and protect other marxists. Anything about America that doesn't fit into their marxist view is systematically attacked using the very freedoms afforded by the Bill of Rights.

Why don't you just go ahead and join Al Qaeda too because you don't like the Patriot Act and George Bush? Last I heard they were opposed to both as well.
 
Thanks to the ACLU, my (then) local city was forced to put up the Star of David and the Menorah.. but was forbidden to put up a Christmas Tree.

???? you ACLU!

Oh, to add insult to injury, *I* as the taxpayer, had to fund the cities "defense".

:cuss: :cuss:
 
We're hitting on my standard litmus test here:

Easiest way to tell the difference between a liberal and a libertarian - ask them what they think of the NRA.

Easiest way to tell the difference between a conservative and a libertarian - ask them what they think of the ACLU.
 
longhorngunman said:
DR, your worried about the loss of your freedom and then your helping an organization that supports Communism?

In a communist society, who would prevent you from retrieving a firearm from the community armory for your recreational or self-defense needs? :D

~G. Fink
 
TonkinTwentyMil said:
1. MEMBERSHIP SIZE: the last time I looked, the ACLU's membership was HALF the NRA's 4 million+. Oh, the ACLU wields influence disproportionate to its membership, but so does the NRA. The point here is, it wouldn't be difficult for Second Amendment advocates to do a "take-over" of the ACLU, i.e., influence its objectionable policies.
ACLU has 400,000 lefties that's 10% of the 4 million number, which I think might be low...

Also, they are a socialist elitist organization. Are you expecting democracy??
 
I am astonished that anyone here would be proud of belonging to that organization. I agree with almost everyone in the world on "some things". It is the things that we disagree on that make them unworthy of respect, and even hatred in my mind. Adolph Hitler liked dogs, enjoyed children, loved his friends, and liked a well designed firearm. He probably liked a good joke, since we often see him in good humor in film.
aclu????:cuss: :barf: :scrutiny:
 
Great, we've officially hit the low road. Thanks for the pleasant debate everyone, but as soon as I'm called 'commi scum' I'm pretty sure it's time to move on. Nevermind being called a nazi, pedophile, cult member, and a host of other things. I guess it's only The High Road when we talk about President Bush as if he can do no wrong.

If you want to live in a society where speech is free so long everyone agrees with it, fine. Tell me I'm a sheep, incapable of making my own educated decisions. Ignore the fact that I'm a member of the NRA, that I steadfastly uphold my belief in EVERY form of individual freedom, and live in a world where there is no perfect organization for that purpose.

That's fine. Because as far as I'm concerned, this is PRECISELY what I'm fighting for. To give you guys the freedom to be exactly who you are, because that's the only way to guarantee that I can be exactly who I am.

So go ahead, ignore the namesake of this forum and keep on speaking your mind. I'm just happy my membership dues are going to an organization that lets you do just that.
 
PETA has good points. Eating tasty animals is great!

And I love all gods creatures....right next to the mashed taters corn and with lots o gravy
 
Thanks for the pleasant debate everyone

You are on a firearm forum board.

The ACLU has a horrible position on the second amendment as I pointed out.

People here criticize you for joining a group that at best shows antipathy toward the second amendment and you are surprised?

The fact is they have ties to and help protect some of the lower elements of society while ignoring the 2nd amendment. All the while trying to stamp out all vestiges of our Christian heritage. They are leftists and will never see a dime of my money.
 
Great, we've officially hit the low road. Thanks for the pleasant debate everyone, but as soon as I'm called 'commi scum' I'm pretty sure it's time to move on. Nevermind being called a nazi, pedophile, cult member, and a host of other things. I guess it's only The High Road when we talk about President Bush as if he can do no wrong.

If you want to live in a society where speech is free so long everyone agrees with it, fine. Tell me I'm a sheep, incapable of making my own educated decisions. Ignore the fact that I'm a member of the NRA, that I steadfastly uphold my belief in EVERY form of individual freedom, and live in a world where there is no perfect organization for that purpose.

That's fine. Because as far as I'm concerned, this is PRECISELY what I'm fighting for. To give you guys the freedom to be exactly who you are, because that's the only way to guarantee that I can be exactly who I am.

So go ahead, ignore the namesake of this forum and keep on speaking your mind. I'm just happy my membership dues are going to an organization that lets you do just that.

What kind of response did you think you'd get on this website?

I guess it's only The High Road when we talk about President Bush as if he can do no wrong.

You have every right to join the ACLU and defend your decision, but when you make a statement like this, I can't take you seriously.
 
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