I just joined the ACLU.

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but as soon as I'm called 'commi scum' I'm pretty sure it's time to move on
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This new member may have been calling the organization that name or is so new he doesn't realize we don't call each other names here.

I guess it's only The High Road when we talk about President Bush as if he can do no wrong.
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There is Bush bashing going on in almost every thread his name appears in!!
 
Well I slogged through the last 4 pages of namecalling and guilt-by-association garbage and I didn't see anyone name an effective lobbying organization other than the ACLU that's fighting the PATRIOT act, or say what they were doing to fight it on their own.

Don't worry though, the secret FISA court will never be used against gun owners... it's only for foreign intelligence agents! Oh and terrorists. Drug smugglers too. And whatever else they decide to use it for I guess ;)

ETA: But don't worry, if it was being abused we would have heard about it, unless the PATRIOT act made it illegal to discuss the case it was being abused in, which it probably did!
 
It does one good. Hitler did a lot of good too. Hitler was an idiot that ended up harming his country more then anyone thought possible, so with the ACLU if they keep at the current rate.
 
DelayedReaction said:
Honestly I think that's just a cop-out to ensure their primarily-liberal supporters don't go nuts. If the Supreme Court established a position affirming the individual right to keep and bear arms, I think we'd see the ACLU start opposing gun control more forcefully. For the moment the fact that they don't support gun control, coupled with their views on several areas I agree with, made me decide to join them.

They most certainly do not say that only the government can own guns.

Yeah, I definitely will start comparing their begging drives. The NRA has really impressed me with their ability to plead for money.
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Don't bet on it. This ain't your grandma's ACLU.

:banghead:
 
Lupinus said:
It does one good. Hitler did a lot of good too. Hitler was an idiot that ended up harming his country more then anyone thought possible, so with the ACLU if they keep at the current rate.
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I agree, the ACLU is just like Hitler. Except that they're against racism, war, restricting speech, secret arrests, the death penalty and government control of the press. And the fact that many ACLU members are Jewish might be a problem too. Other than that, lots in common. Like for example, some ACLU members have facial hair.

By the way it would be really nice if people would try out different evil despot bugaboos every once in a while. Hitler is plenty evil but it gets a little repetitive sometimes.

Try this on:
What! You oppose putting Bibles in school lunches at abortion clinics?? That's just what Jean-Bedel Bokassa would say!
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No? OK here's another:
NAMBLA's evil plan to ban our 50-caliber war on some drugs from this fine city's nativity scene is reminiscent of the authoritarian rule of Nicolae Ceaucescu!
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:neener:
 
I agree, the ACLU is just like Hitler. Except that they're against racism, war, restricting speech, secret arrests, the death penalty and government control of the press. And the fact that many ACLU members are Jewish might be a problem too. Other than that, lots in common. Like for example, some ACLU members have facial hair.
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Ideals and views different yes, and I am not trying to say they hold any views the same. My point was that just because a little good was done it doesn't erase all the bad. Hitler turned Germany out of its post WW1 slump, made it a major world power, and created many jobs. He did a lot of good. Does that erase all the bad that he did? Not by a long shot. The ACLU does a little good with the patriot act and a few other little things here and there for the press. But it doesn't erase all the bad they do. They would love nothing better then to erase all public displays of religion, unless it of course is anything other then Christianity. A college in NC a few years ago had a Muslim book on the list choice for required reading. You didn't have to read it but it was among the choices, there were no Christian books. You think the ACLU would have left it alone if it was a Christian book and not a Muslim one? They and their major supporters would love nothing more then a socialist nation. They would love nothing more then to make this country a bigger cesepool with their commie leftist BS then it already is. They fight the patriot act, whoopidy doo. They do a lot more bad then good. The few issues doesn't define an organization the majority issues do. I have zero respect for the ACLU as an organization. And actually giving your money to it? Well my mother taught me if you cant say anyting nice...
 
Would it be safe to say that the ACLU does not believe in a constructionist view of the costitution and is more in the living document camp?
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That would be a safe bet except they believe it is a living document with various parts amputated. They read the ethereal penumbras and pulled Abortion rights out of the 4th amendment, but refuse to acknowledge the plain wording of the 2nd and parts of the 1st.
 
Mongo the Mutterer said:
Two citizens being hassled unjustly, and in the case of Dr. Hatfill, having their reputation destroyed is not good, but may be handled by compensation. Small price to pay for increased security IMO.
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Benjamin Franklin

They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.
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DelayedReaction said:
So I joined. Within the next few days my wallet will simultaneously contain membership cards from the ACLU and the NRA...
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I cannot tell the difference between the ACLU and Al Qaeda... both are terrorist organizations and both are using terror to accomplish their aims. While Al Qaeda uses bombs the ACLU uses lawyers... I spit on both, and hold with contempt anyone that would belong to either group.
 
Gentlemen,

THR does not permit the use of personal insults, direct or implied. Such behavior is not consistant with maintaining civility and reasoned and reasonable discussion of questions that can be controversial. Considering how controversial RKBA is in this country and the world as a whole it's a good thing that there be somewhere civility is required.

Most folks in this thread have not crossed over that line, but some have. Passion about a subject is understandable, but self control and respect of our members as people is required here. You're permitted to name call the organizations we discuss (within some very broad limits), but insulting fellow members is not in the spirit of the site as a whole. Such infantile behavior has gotten individuals banned in the past. It certainly doesn't earn the respect of the membership.
 
ditto

I have been an ACLU member and NRA member and EFF member for the same time. They both fight for things I believe in. They both have things I disagree wtih, but they are a voice that overall I liketo have heard in this country. I have voted Democrat and republican, it depends on the issues and who i feel really GIVES A DAMN
 
IN BRIEF

The national ACLU is neutral on the issue of gun control. We believe that the Constitution contains no barriers to reasonable regulations of gun ownership. If we can license and register cars, we can license and register guns. -

ACLU POLICY

"The ACLU agrees with the Supreme Court's long-standing interpretation of the Second Amendment [as set forth in the 1939 case, U.S. v. Miller] that the individual's right to bear arms applies only to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia. Except for lawful police and military purposes, the possession of weapons by individuals is not constitutionally protected. Therefore, there is no constitutional impediment to the regulation of firearms." --Policy #47 http://www.aclu.org/police/gen/14523res20020304.html?ht=handguns handguns
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Sounds like the same argument Gun Grabbers use.
 
I didn't read through all the posts in this thread, but I would be surprised if someone didn't recommend the Institute for Justice as a nice alternative to the ACLU. Obviously the ACLU is large and influential, and the IJ not so much. But I feel better about giving money to the IJ than the ACLU, simply because IJ's mission is much closer to my personal views on liberty than that of the ACLU's.

Neither organization is a gun-rights advocacy group, but it seems to me that the ACLU has a downright hostile view of individual ownership of firearms. You're gonna have to give your money to a dedicated gun-rights group (NRA/GOA) and an ACLU/IJ type of group if you want to cover all your civil-liberty bases.

My money goes to IJ/GOA. Arguably a more effective combination would be NRA/ACLU. But I believe we need a voice -- even if a small voice -- that refuses to compromise on important issues. I call it the gadfly effect. It helps keep the end goals in focus during times when a strategy of compromise is necessary to achieve those goals.
 
I'm a late comer to this thread, but I'll post my two cents. I agree w/ some of the things ACLU purports to stand for. I'm for freedom of speech, due process, and privacy rights (esp free crypto, I'm not sure how ACLU stands on that).

However, I've seen too little of the ACLU standing for those things I actually support. Usually I hear about them dragging out appeals for people who manifestly deserve the death penalty or doing their best to make sure that Christians are never allowed to admit they exist in public. I'd like to find a legal organization to support but it will probably be something like the Liberty Council (for social issues) or Electronic Frontier Foundation (for privacy issues).

It is very likely I may some day end up arguing cases against the ACLU. I just can't support them.
 
This isn't the High Road.

It's the bottom of the barrel.


ACLU my arse.


Goodbye

G
 
If every NRA member also joined the ACLU, we could change it. An organization is made up of its membership. Change can occur. Generally very slowly, but it does occur.
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Or we could find an organization that has a leadership that already support what we believe in, instead of trying to fight an already entrenched leadership that stands for things we oppose. Just a thought...
 
It doesn't matter if the ACLU is against the 2nd amendment--they don't do anything in relation to RKBA, so who cares?? If you asked around at the leadership of the Red Cross they're probably antis too. So you're not going to give them money anymore? "Don't donate blood--it might be used by an anti-RKBA doctor!!" :rolleyes:

The ACLU has been very effective at fighting the PATRIOT act in the courts and the congress and I for one am willing to put up with their crap for the time being on that basis.

I understand that some religious people are offended by the ACLU's stance on seperation of church and state but we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that one because arguing religion is pointless and against forum rules.
 
The ACLU has been very effective at fighting the PATRIOT act in the courts and the congress and I for one am willing to put up with their crap for the time being on that basis.
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And very effective on doing a lot of bad. Sorry, it doesn't balance out. They can keep fighting the patriot act, but they will do it without my money or support. The Red Cross does a lot of good so it balances out. The ACLU does on good thing and a lot of bad. They are an UnAmerican socalist organization. I support their right to exist, but I will never support them without a complete change of policy.
 
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