I just talked to the BATF&E ...

[HKUSP45C]

My it was anti-climatic.

I had a question about transferring a rifle from NJ to TX by car for the purposes of gifting it from one non-licensee to another. So, I called my Houston division office.

They answered my question in a very professional and matter-of-fact way about the federal law and gave me some advice on how to store it for the trip in order to best comply with most state laws and then thanked me for calling after making sure thier answer was complete and clear.

They didn't do any of the things I'd been led to believe are SOP such as:
Stomp my puppies.
Burn down my house.
Imprison me without a lawyer (or food and water).
Declare me an enemy non-combatant.
Revoke my citizenship.
Heck they weren't even unpleasant.

Maybe .... just maybe .... and remember this is a hypothetical .... They aren't out to disarm and kill all the red blooded gun owners and stomp the CotUSA after burning the BoR before breakfast every morning. They might, just may be, a bunch of folks doing a day-to-day job.

It's an interesting thought anyway, I think I'll ponder it a while and see how it sits later.

I'm personally of a renewed faith in the way gov't employees are able to handle authority. Really refreshing. Though, it's still light outside. I'll edit my post if I get an 0'dark-thirty wake up fron the JBTs and thier flash banging, puppy-stomping, house-burning insertion team.

By the way, it IS legal to tote a rifle from one state to another if you are giving it away as a present. Federally, anyway. Check your state laws. It's also best to store it unloaded, in the trunk, in a locking rifle case and with a zip-tie or some-such through the action or breech. Apparently.

Anyone else dealt with the BATF&E and lived to tell the tale? I'm sure they must have overlooked at LEAST one other citizen who needed "the treatment" when they were just too busy to do it right then.

 

[taliv]

dude, you've been watching too many movies. it will take at least a few hours for them to forge the signatures of judges for a warrant, and do their paperwork to get the black helicopters requisitioned. besides, they like to invade under cover of darkness. be patient

 

[MilsurpShooter]

Has a feeling you might see an in-ordinate amount of black suburbans along the route you intend to take

Kidding

 

[TexasRifleman]

So, I called my Houston division office.

Texans are Texans.

Call the New Jersey office tomorrow and ask the same question, let us know how that goes

 

[Kali Endgame]

Congratulations, you are now on The List. All your bases belong to us. BWAHAHAHAHAH.

Seriously, the human element is hard to anticipate.

 

[HKUSP45C]

Call the New Jersey office tomorrow and ask the same question, let us know how that goes

That's an interesting challenge, I'll take you up on it. I'm feeling lucky, I live in H-town anyway .... NJ ATF can't get me from, what? 1800miles away. I should be safe.

I will do the same thing in the morning to the NJ office and report my findings. Besides, this is an effort to keep my mom out of legal dutch. A second opinion is well worth the time and effort.

 

[Mr White]

Call the New Jersey office tomorrow and ask the same question, let us know how that goes

Better yet, call the San Francisco office and ask them if its legal to modify the disconnector on an SKS to make it full auto. Make sure you give your name and address.

All your bases belong to us. BWAHAHAHAHAH.

If you're gonna quote obscure, poorly translated Japanese video games, get it right.
The actual quote is "All your base are belong to us!"

 

[AndyC]

"You have no chance to survive make your time. HA HA HA HA..."

 

[zoom6zoom]

They aren't out to disarm and kill all the red blooded gun owners and stomp the CotUSA after burning the BoR before breakfast every morning.

That's a different department from the one you talked to.

 

[Hoppy590]

You are on the way to destruction
You have no chance to survive make your time

the JBT are the actual teams, the anti american gun hatters are the higher ups. the people you talked to are no differant than grocery store customer service. they are there to smile, say yes sir, no sir and be general public relations. they are nice people and deserve respectful treatment.

 

[razorburn]

There's no doubt, the organization as a whole is our enemy. The individual people aren't necessarily so bad, and generally pleasant, as people are in general.

 

[gezzer]

The BATFE agent you spoke with is an idiot who set you up for a federal felony.

If you believe him it shows how naive you are. Hope you enjoy your new roommate in your cell.

 

[Lupinus]

Not sure if they mentioned this but last I checked to transfer to someone in another state you need to go through an FFL, even if delivering in person

 

[JLStorm]

They also forgot to mention that many municipalities in NJ dont follow many of the federal gun laws (or their own state laws for that matter), speficially the one the BATF were refering to (USC TITLE 18, PART I, CHAPTER 44) which is why they are in the middle of several law suites with individuals as well as organizations both at the state and federal level.

 

[HKUSP45C]

The BATFE agent you spoke with is an idiot who set you up for a federal felony.

If you believe him it shows how naive you are. Hope you enjoy your new roommate in your cell.

That's a fairly bold and inflammatory statement.

Care to back it up with any facts? Or, should I just assume you are correct based on the long and intimate relationship we share? I'd be interested to see what you know that I don't on this very specific subject.

I really couldn't find anything in the BATF&E FAQ or in my google searches that would lead me to believe that a bequeathment or gift given across state lines, in person, violated any federal laws. Now, I'm hip to the fact that a purchase made across state lines gets real fuzzy, but only because of state law. Federal law is actually quite clear about it.

It's my mom giving me my dad's rifle, he passed on, she's passing it down. It's not like I'm buying a rifle from NJ and trying to avoid the FFL transfer fees and paperwork by having it hand delivered.

BTW, as an aside, it's a very nice rifle with a huge pant-load of history. Both in battle and personal. I'm really stoked to finally get to own this one. It's kind of an honor, really.

 

[Strings]

Most of the times I've had a question for the ATFE, they've been extrodinarily helpful. Not that I've dealt with them all that much, but I haven't had any bad interactions in the 5 or 6 times I've called the local office...

 

[Hkmp5sd]

That's a fairly bold and inflammatory statement.

Care to back it up with any facts? Or, should I just assume you are correct based on the long and intimate relationship we share? I'd be interested to see what you know that I don't on this very specific subject.

No problem. Bequeathment is fine. Any other transfer, including gifts, between non-licensees require an FFL.

§ 922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful --

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State , except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/18usc_chap44.pdf

 

[TexasRifleman]

bequest or intestate succession

Still on the borderline, be careful.....
I'm paranoid so I'd go so far as to have mom write all that down somewhere.

 

[buzz_knox]

Bequeathment is fine.

This means to make a gift via a will. My understanding is that the gift being made here is not being done via a will, so the transfer would still require going through an FFL.

The advice offered by the ATFE agent is contingent on what information was provided, and is not binding on the gov't. If the transfer is considered illegal, telling the judge "ATFE told me I could" will get you laughed at.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

The advice offered by the ATFE agent is contingent on what information was provided, and is not binding on the gov't.

Which is why it is wise, when dealing with ATF, to write them with your question and get an official written ruling in reply.

 

[buzz_knox]

Which is why it is wise, when dealing with ATF, to write them with your question and get an official written ruling in reply.

The recent incident with the Atkins Accelerator shows that ATFE's rulings aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

And if the ATFE is anything like the SEC or IRS (and I'm pretty sure it is), there is something in the regs or (in the case of the SEC) the letter itself that says the advice cannot be relied upon. The SEC, in fact, requires companies to respond in writing to their advice and indicate their understanding that the SEC's comments cannot be used as a defense.

 

[plexreticle]

They are setting up road blocks as we speak

 

[Hkmp5sd]

I disagree. The Atkins ruling proves the usefulness of having an AFT written response. Without the first ruling, Atkins and everyone that bought one of their stocks would be automatically busted for possessing a machinegun. By having that ruling, the people that bought the stocks are screwed, but not under indictment.

When questioning gun laws, especially NFA stuff, written rulings are the only way to somewhat protect yourself.

 

[rhubarb]

The problem isn't that the BATFE is rude and will kick down your door and stomp on your puppy.

The problem is that the BATFE exists.

An agency that is given the task of infringing on a liberty guaranteed by our Bill of Rights to "not be infringed" is by its nature evil.

 

[TexasRifleman]

My understanding is that the gift being made here is not being done via a will, so the transfer would still require going through an FFL.

Hence the "intestate succession" portion

Intestate by definition means no will was present.