problems with retail stores and laws regarding minors

[freakshow10mm]

Letting someone look at a gun is neither a sale, a delivery or a transfer. My lawyer says you need a better lawyer to write your legal opinions.

No but it is this:

a temporary transfer of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile or to the possession or use of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile if the handgun and ammunition are possessed and used by the juvenile--

If done for one of the exemptions, it's legal. Since the inspection of a handgun on FFL premises is not an exception it's illegal. That's what the law states. Seems pretty clear to me.

 

[JohnBT]

My lawyer still doesn't agree with your loose interpretation of the statute. And neither do I.

To agree with you I would have to believe that going to a new car dealership and sitting in the driver's seat of a car in the showroom somehow constitutes possession or a transfer. Clearly it doesn't.

Clearly none of the gun stores I've been in during the past 50+ years believes the law prohibits it either.
_____

"I think ATF takes the position that the dealer handing a gun to a customer for examination or viewing purposes constitutes a delivery as one of the definitions of delivery is to grant possession, custody, or control of something to another person."

Okay, let's say you have custody. Try walking out the door without paying for it.

Clearly the ATF hasn't told the majority of gun stores what they are thinking.

John

 

[freakshow10mm]

The law seems clear to me. If your lawyer thinks otherwise, good for him.

It's not the ATF's job to educate the industry on laws. It's our job to know them. The information is clearly on the ATF website as a courtesy.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Why doesn't somebody just ask the BATFE? My contacts in the agency are usually more knowable about the "E" than the "F".

 

[freakshow10mm]

It seems the ATF has already answered this question and that is why it's on the website.

You know the rule. Ask 5 ATF agents a question you'll get 12 answers.

 

[JohnBT]

And if you ask 5 people on the 'net you'll get 12 answers because of variability in reading comprehension.

"The information is clearly on the ATF website as a courtesy."

Obviously it's not clear.

John

 

[ugaarguy]

And if you ask 5 people on the 'net you'll get 12 answers because of variability in reading comprehension.

"The information is clearly on the ATF website as a courtesy."

Obviously it's not clear.

John

Corey quoted and liked what's on the ATF website. The ATF specifically says:

Juvenile possession of a handgun on the business premises of a licensee for examination or viewing purposes is prohibited pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(x).

It doesn't matter how you, or I, or your lawyer, or anyone else interprets 18 U.S.C. 922(x). The ATF has issued their interpretation, and until someone challenges it in court that's how it is. Most dealers just aren't willing to risk their livelihood over it. I agree that it's stupid, but as an employee of a dealer I completely understand the dealer's position.

 

[trex1310]

I remember a time in my past when I couldn't drink a beer in a bar, but I could damn
well hold an M-16 in a foreign country.

 

[DSAPT9]

I work at a local sporting goods store in north Idaho and ATF has told us as long as the parent or guardian is with the minor they take responsibility. Then it goes to state law and here it is.

If I give it to the parent then I do not sell, transfer or deliver a firearm to a minor the parent does and like I said Idaho law says they can.

TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 33
FIREARMS, EXPLOSIVES AND OTHER DEADLY WEAPONS
18-3302E.Possession of a weapon by a minor. (1) It shall be unlawful for any person under the age of eighteen (18) years to possess or have in possession any weapon, as defined in section 18-3302A, Idaho Code, unless he:
(a) Has the written permission of his parent or guardian to possess the weapon; or
(b) Is accompanied by his parent or guardian while he has the weapon in his possession.
(2) Any minor under the age of twelve (12) years in possession of a weapon shall be accompanied by an adult.
(3) Any person who violates the provisions of this section is guilty of a misdemeanor.​

 

[Officers'Wife]

I remember a time in my past when I couldn't drink a beer in a bar, but I could damn
well hold an M-16 in a foreign country.

And in the various forts my husband has been stationed, I've seen 18 and 19 year old men that could be trusted with tanks, mortars, true assault weapons and hand grenades inside the gates but are considered a menace with a handgun outside the gates.

 

[freakshow10mm]

Yep. 17yo marines can be within spitting distance of the President with loaded weapons but can't vote, smoke, or drink. Makes perfect sense.