I just talked to the BATF&E ...

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Dirkster, my post was not intended to flame, or repudiate another. It is simply my thought that I am not a court of competent jurisdiction, so it matters not what I think is reasonable, or unreasonable. If the court has ruled on it, it seems to me the constitutional process alluded to, has been duely served. For me to reject that decision, in deference to my personal opinion, strikes me as rather counter-constitutional.

Hook686,

I for one am not going to defer to how a particular court rules as to whether something is constitutional or not. After all, the Constitution was not written in a mysterious language that only the legal elites can understand. Most anyone can understand quite well what the Constitution, or more specifically the Bill of Rights, means.

The courts are known to twist the plain meaning of the Constitution to suit their purposes. What would you say if the courts ruled that the 1st Amendment doesn't apply to political speech? Would you defer to their judgment then?

All of that is somewhat tangential to our discussion, though. We are talking about the BATFE; I may be mistaken, but I do not believe the consitutionality of the BATFE has ever been addressed in a court. What I believe is crystal-clear is that the Constitution specifically proscribes the limits of the federal government's power, and the BATFE falls outside of those limits, and is therefore unconstitutional. The 2nd Amendment says our rights shall not be infringed, and the BATFE definitely infringes on our 2nd Amendment rights.
 
Anyone else dealt with the BATF&E and lived to tell the tale?

I've called them and they've been cordial. I was looking to purchase a NYS legal Kalashnikov (fearing that I'd get accepted to a doctoral program upstate instead of the good old south) and I wanted to make sure that I wasn't in violation of any state or local laws. I called branches in upstate NY and my previous residence. I also called local police to check for any city ordinances... noone banged down my door, I lived to tell about it. Folks, the people who work for the BATF are just that PEOPLE. Not mythical creatures, not pawns of the Illuminati... people. They're not going to purposely mislead you either, or else their own butt will be on the line in a federal court for entrapment. I think the BATF is goofy and useless, but hey, it's there.
 
ATF

Mr. Koresh sorry for the late reply to your E-Mail on transporting weapons to Texas but................
 
All of my interactions with BATF&E have been most cordial.
Most have just been routine questions or applications for NFA items. The employees and agents have, to date, been the most courteous and helpful people I have ever had interactions with who were government employees.

Including the interactions I've had with an agent since reporting the loss of a suppressor in a rollover motor vehicle accident.
 
Hook686,

I for one am not going to defer to how a particular court rules as to whether something is constitutional or not. After all, the Constitution was not written in a mysterious language that only the legal elites can understand. Most anyone can understand quite well what the Constitution, or more specifically the Bill of Rights, means.

The courts are known to twist the plain meaning of the Constitution to suit their purposes. What would you say if the courts ruled that the 1st Amendment doesn't apply to political speech? Would you defer to their judgment then?

All of that is somewhat tangential to our discussion, though. We are talking about the BATFE; I may be mistaken, but I do not believe the constitutionality of the BATFE has ever been addressed in a court. What I believe is crystal-clear is that the Constitution specifically proscribes the limits of the federal government's power, and the BATFE falls outside of those limits, and is therefore unconstitutional. The 2nd Amendment says our rights shall not be infringed, and the BATFE definitely infringes on our 2nd Amendment rights.


Dirkster ... We are different people, with different belief systems. This is clear to me. I would, and do, defer to a ruling by a court. To me, the constitution lays out a 'process' of government. When I start obviating that process, I become the one acting in an unconstitutional manner.

As I understand it, the federal courts have ruled that a federal agency, such as BATFA, is the master of its Regulations, which certainly must not be in violation of law, especially the 'Law of the Land'. If you think the BATFA is in violation of law, then you do have a process for ameliorating the matter.



infringe - Main Entry:infringe
Pronunciation:in-frinj
Function:verb
Inflected Form:infringed ; infringing
Etymology:Medieval Latin infringere, from Latin, to break, crush, from in- + frangere to break — more at BREAK
Date:1513

transitive verb
1 : to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another *infringe a patent*
2 obsolete : DEFEAT, FRUSTRATE
intransitive verb : ENCROACH — used with on or upon *infringe on our rights*
synonyms see TRESPASS
–infringer noun


It sure seems to me that it is the courts, not individual citizens, that our constitution establishes as the whether, or not, law has been violated. Until that time, is not the BATFA innocent of wrong doing ?

My reference to my view of the Bush Administration is much an assessment that individuals are deciding the meaning of law, The President referred to himself as the 'Decider', as I recall). Somehow I view this to be more like the Taliban, than a constitutional republic.

As I said, we obviously see things different. I support the 'Law of the Land', and those lesser laws so lawfully rendered. If this means that some day that the only legal firearm to own, would be a Brown Bess, then I reckon I'd buy a Brown Bess.
 
Shipwreck said:
So, what did the NJ office tell U? I am curious. U said U would call them too.

I called them and left a message with a lady named "Ronnie" .... we'll see what she says when/if she returns the call.

Ya know after reading the replies in this thread it may be just as easy to have mom stop by the local pawn shop and transfer it to me there. That way it has gone through an FFL and nobody will have to fret about it. I just hate the idea. But, then I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir on that note.

To clarify. Mom is driving fron NJ to here with the rifle to transfer it to me in TX. There was no will. You ALL should have a will. It IS silly to have to worry about all of this.
 
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