I just witnessed a shooting, very unhappy with the way I handled it.

[buck00]

I think you did ok. A really dumb move would have been to shoot at the perp shooting in the air. Is shooting up into the air irresponsible, dangerous, and indirectly threatening to you and the others? Yes, but you would have faced charges and the loss of your job if you decided to open up on him Bruce Willis style.

Sounds like a thug got kicked out of the club and decided to shoot in the air to try to scare people and save face (in his mind). Let the cops deal with an idiot like that.

 

[Browning]

What's there to feel bad about?

They weren't shooting at you or even pointing a gun in your direction.

They were shooting in the air to prove that they were tough guys to whom ever.

What were you supposed to have done? Jumped out of the car with a cat/ninjalike reflex, cleared leather, assumed a modified Weaver stance while telling all the strippers to "get down" and then done a tactical sweep of the parking lot while using available cover and then given them each a double tap to the chest and one to the head and then shouted "clear" to the crowd because these dumbasses were shooting in the air on the other side of a wall a ways away from you? Even though none of this had anything to do with you whats so ever? Even though it didn't really pose a threat to you (or a limited threat at best)?

The only thing that I can see that you did wrong was not getting your head down when the shooting started.

Quit beating yourself up, I was expecting much worse from the title.

I wouldn't have gotten involved either.

 

[ace1001]

Always think minimize. You had your hand on your gun, but didn't show them you were a threat. I might have told the customer to get in the car quick. You would have gotten the fare and maybe made a friend for getting her out of there. No aphrodesiac like danger. But sometimes not moving is best when you are in the perps sight and he is not paying attention to you. Ace

 

[Tom A]

Thanks for the heads-up Mr. Smith!

My wife and I have just started playing gigs in the Irish pub across the way so it's nice to know what's going on in the neighborhood.

The bar crowd seems fairly civilized so far, but we're keeping an eye out outdoors - I'm unloading and loading as expediently as possible while my wife stands watch. I brought Surefire lights and the S&W 642 this last time, and I think it might be time for her to bring the XD9 on the next round.

Hope to avoid posting any stories here dontcha know!

Vaya con Dios....

 

[davinci]

when nothing horrible happens, it seems like you do the right thing.
When something horrible happens, it seems like everyone is blamed for doing the wrong thing.

In this case, nobody was hurt, bad guys got caught. You kept your job, so you did the right thing.

Now, if they had shot the two bouncers, the customer and the girl and you would have survived you would have never forgiven yourself for letting those people die without putting up some sort of resistance.

Remember Virginia Tech? Of course you do. There was a lot of finger pointing after it happened "the police were sitting on their butts" "the kids should have had CCW's to defend themselves" "they should have done a better job of informing everyone about the first shooting" Lots of finger pointing after a lot of unexplainable events....we want to think that these kind of things are preventable, and that's only if we accept that there was a tragedy. That brings me to my next point...

Conspiracy theorists don't want to accept that there was a tragedy. They make up these fictions in their heads to justify a random act.... good example, one man wiht a cheap gun from a library window killed JFK. Lots of folks didn't want to accept that such a thing could have happened at the hands of one man. It did, sorry.
After 9/11 all kinds of conspiracies showed up on the internet about the planes being shot down, wtc building 7 being demolished on purpose as part of a gov't coverup. It would be comical if it weren't so sad.

In society bad things do happen. Our forefathers knew this, they gave us the right to protect ourselves, the second amendment gives us the right to protect ourselves with the same technology as our enemies, no matter who they are. I don't remember who said it, but "this country will be either run by the bible, or the bayonet." and with such Godless folks who crash planes into our buildings and kill us, that leaves only one option.

 

[revjen45]

Not sure from the description, but would blasting off have deprived the ladies and bouncers of the at least minimal cover provided by the cab? Sounds to me like you did OK. You can always come up with better solutions in retrospect, but you didn't have time for extended analysis.

 

[bsf]

Now, if they had shot the two bouncers, the customer and the girl and you would have survived you would have never forgiven yourself for letting those people die without putting up some sort of resistance.

I think it is a little arrogant of you to propose to know how the OP thinks and would "feel" had it transpired as you suggest. Do not assume everyone shares your paradigm.

To the OP.
It probably serves little purpose to beat yourself up over this incident, but do learn from it. I agree with everyone who suggests that returning fire would have been a bad idea. IMO, sometimes the best course of action is to make yourself a really, really small target.

Also, I understand there are risks people are willing to endure to keep their job. Look at how many people at this board advocate CC, except when it comes to work where it may be prohibited. They already decided to pursue a course of action that may contribute to them being up the creek without a paddle should the SHTF. You have performed your own cost/benefit analysis. The only suggestion I will make is that you spend some time, if you have not already, considering at what level of risk you are willing to trade your job for immediate safety. Some serious contemplation now may improve response time in the future. Glad you emerged unscathed.

My $0.02.

 

[CountGlockula]

Don't feel bad. Just be grateful to be alive.

 

[phaed]

gunsmith, first off, thanks for your candor, and sharing your story with us. don't be too hard on yourself.

people can train as much as we want, but when a serious situation like that happens, there's no assurance in how we'll act. we're all human, and those situations are so far out of the norm that they can throw us for a loop the first time.

glad no one was hurt.

 

[gezzer]

I would have hastily driven away and called the police.

Good idea, but the poster survived the incident with good info for the PD. Good Job! No expenses for hospitals or lawyers. No pain, the poster did well for the situation.

 

[TacoMalo]

You're title says it all, you witnessed not participated and that's the right thing to do. If he was drawing down on you or someone in your direction then it would have been a completely different situation, you did good and you got another piece of scum off the street good on you so stop beating yourself up over it.

 

[jfdavis58]

I'd say you just got a wake-up call. This situation was deep in the red-zone and you made some weak plays. My experience with gangbangers is that they dislike other gangbangers and witnesses!

Cover and concealment, then situational assessment and action---in all situations except an ambush, that is what the guard taught! Get down and behind solid objects; motion, gesture and verbalize this to others that may also be in danger in a way that doesn't draw attention-but then they are on-their-own.

Once you're safe from incoming, assess the threat; here it's minimal as long as you have cover and they don't take an active interest in you: find a way to hide (concealment) and observe. That is (was) the first part of your action planning (or it should have been), the second part is to continue to evade, find an escape and report.

Kick yourself a couple more times for acting like a target, then move on. Everybody gets a little luck now and then; don't count on it coming your way again or soon!

 

[ssfeldjager]

Hmmm.... You're in front of a club that's frequented by gang-bangers and company. Most likely, the other patrons of said club are close to the mindset of gang-bangers and company, right? Or, if nothing else, those who like that type of life style or associating with that type of life style, right?

So... lacking an assault on yourself, the only other possible recipients or potential recipients of said gang-banger's display of firearms skills would have been one of the citizens mentioned above.

Therefore, if you're OK, and any one or more of them leaves in a bag or stretcher, then there's no loss, right? Put the taxi in "D" for "drive" and ease on down the road to the next paying customer. No sweat, no problem.

 

[The Unknown User]

I don't really think you did anything wrong. You were a great witness, and you couldn't really have done much else. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[gunsmith]

Update

They want me to testify, I complained to the process server
(county employee) about the cops snitching me out at work, also I told her
that I want court security to secure my ccw in a locker so that I
may have it on me as I walk out of the building.
The last time I was in there I asked and I was told that I could keep it in my car.
I insisted that if my testimony is so important that I want her to talk to court security for me and to let me store my gun with court security, like the cops do, so that I can have it on me after testifying against a bunch of gangbangers.
Surprisingly she agreed to ask

 

[KBintheSLC]

I agree with Elrod... the outcome was good so I think you did good too. I think by shouting "take cover" and drawing you gun you would only attract negative attention to yourself.
If people have to be told that verbally... well... they have it coming to them. I would say that the only thing I would do different is get out of Dodge and call LE asap when it started. You are not the Lone Ranger... you are a cab driver.

 

[cgsimons1187]

Sometimes we are fortunate to experience such things which makes us think and better prepare ourselves if something similar happens in the future. From the way you described it, you didn't do so bad. So don't beat yourself up about it. If you were the only one there that had a weapon, you really don't want that gangbanger to know it until it is too late for them. That means by not drawing attention to yourself and appearing no more of a threat to him than anyone else worked in your favor.

 

[Chuck Dye]

What should you have done?

For one thing, you could have written your thread title differently.

In my book, a shooting involves a shooter and a target. What you witnessed was a (insert slur ridden descriptives here) stupid display, not a shooting.

I feel defrauded.


As to your actions, I think you did well enough, as is seen in the casualty count. Colonel Cooper and others have said:

If the enemy is within range, so are you. Do not draw fire, it irritates those around you.

 

[BullfrogKen]

What Huck said . . .


What you described was more accurately a weapons discharge, and not a shooting. A "shooting" generally implies someone got shot. There's no evidence, from what you posted, that even suggests he was shooting at someone, much less someone getting shot.

I saw this thread a while ago, and left it be. But I think its time we can close it. There's not much more we can gain from this.