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I know this is a bad idea BUT

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Samari Jack

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Nov 16, 2010
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I was watching Pawn Stars the other night about a guy brought in a bowling ball mortar. He took an "M" cylinder, like ones O2 is delivered in for welding and cut it in half for the barrel. Drilled a hold in the back for a fuze. He did supplement the muzzle (if that is what it is called on a mortar) with a strap of 2" wide x 1/2 inch thick wrapped around the belching end.

I have a basement full of old 72 cf steel(chrome moly) scuba tanks and was thinking about sacrificing one for something that would go boom and agitate my neighbors.

I'm not planning on bowling balls but something, maybe a cantalope with a sabot, that maybe would not build to high a CUP. I know the lbs pressure of air rating for the bottle, the pressure used for testing but don't know how to figure pressures from black powder or CUPs and how they might come into play.

I haven't started this project, maybe never will, but interest is there.
Besides DON'T DO IT. any advice?
I know already I need a long fuse as my "run like hell" ain't what it use to be.
 
Wish I lived near you!
That sounds like an absolute riot.

If you decide to do it, please, please post lots of pics!
 
I haven't started this project, maybe never will, but interest is there.
Besides DON'T DO IT. any advice?
I know already I need a long fuse as my "run like hell" ain't what it use to be.

LOL - I can relate to the neabors, I don't know were you live, but I am sure they will be some repercussion on setting off explosives (black powder) without a license. May I suggest that you join a civil war reenactment group and just use their cannons.

Or compressed air like on pumpkin chuncking.

Jim
 
Be careful doing this. There may be legal reprocussions. Take it seriously. Remember even mythbusters can't aim their cannons!
 
Make a good sabot or you might be wearing a bunch of cantaloupe soup

Be careful doing this. There may be legal reprocussions. Take it seriously. Remember even mythbusters can't aim their cannons!
Of course they can. It just takes them a few tries. OK, LOTS of tries.

I am not sure what the characteristics of what the Federal Government calls "A Destructive Device", but the advice to look into the legality issues is sound. Federal BATFE regs is only the start. Local and State regs will apply to both ownership and use.

Check your life insurance as well.

It might be worthwhile to start your research here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumpkin_chunking

Let us know how it goes.

Lost Sheep
 
Good Point. I live in the sticks. My nearest neighbor is 1/2 mile away and we have lived here the last 20 or so years all my neighbors know me and have learned to tolerate me playing McGuyver.

Maybe a thunderstorm would be a time to test.
 
Water balloons to fit the barrel

I should say frozen water balloons.
Then consider paper mache sabots
And a chamber that works like a M203/M79 round.
Keep us informed.
 
There's nothing illegal about setting off a cannon. They're not classified as explosive, no different than a black powder rifle.


The biggest question is what is the scuba tank made of? If it's aluminum, it's probably going to be a one-shot deal. And then you get to pick aluminum shards out of everything within vicinity.


If it's steel, it's probably important to know what steel it is constructed from. Certain steels are stronger metallurgically, and will make all the difference in a successful cannon vs. a proverbial pipe bomb.


So, determine the metal, and determine the strength you'll need, and if it all matches up, you'd be good to go. If not, then understand it's going to be a one-shot deal, and you probably want to stand behind a good concrete wall and have a very long pull-cord. Otherwise, a short-barrel, low-velocity bowling ball mortar would be a lot of fun.


Just know that most bowling ball mortars I've seen have a wall thickness considerably thicker than a scuba tank....
 
I shot a rather large tank of pure Oxygen with a 100 gr. HP from a 7 mag. running 3600 fps from about 200 yds. away, at night time. I duct taped about 20 shotshell 209M primers to a single spot about center on the tank. When it blew up it produced a very lrge explosion and a pure white flash.
 
What fuel was the O2 burning to produce this large explosion and pure white flash, air?
 
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Made air cannons in my welding classes 20 some years ago out of them. Much safer and a Ton of fun launching tennis balls and beer....i mean soda cans out of a 6' barrel
 
I have a co worker that has been buggin me to build one since that episode, I finally have him downgraded to billiard balls for the first try.

Not sure if it'll come to anything but I do miss my tater guns from my youth. I should make one with my son!!!! Do they still make aqua net hairspray? :)

IF I make the cannon for pool balls, I know i'll move on the bowling balls. The nice thing with cannon's.......if you use a long enough fuse u don't need to be near for the detonation.
 
3000 PSI released in one instant would be classed an explosion (btw, lots of stories in welding shops about what happens when it don't go boom and rather turns into a rocket)

the expansion of all that gas, not just a gas but a POWERFUL OXIDIZER would do two things, ignite what will burn (spontaneous, you lower the flash point with the increase of O2) and instantly create a fog by freezing out the water vapor.
 
I do not know about your tanks but I am a firefighter and our tanks-the old steel ones-run at 2100 PSI or so. They are tested in a burst chamber at 5000 PSI as to rate of expansion. I agree that the pressure would be way too high for the wall thickness to be effective. I have a friend who made a cannon/mortar out of a piece of 2 inch 5000 PSI steam pipe. It has a wall thickness of 3 inches. He taper cut the wall at about 40 degrees and used about 15 LBS of welding rod to weld the cylinder to a 5/8 inch thick 16X16 steel plate. This one is safe to detonate from a distance----Yeah a full pound of black powder to a loading with a large paper bag for the wadding and the thing gets driven about 8 inches into the ground when it goes off. You do not want to stand closer than 50 feet to it due to the concussion/flash when pointing up.:D
 
Lots of good vids on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VSkoPBKKho

They're really using a VERY small charge of powder, usually down in the valve nipple area.

Here's a neat page on it: http://www.docsmachine.com/nonPB/mortar.html

(And, no, you don't need a license or special permits to play with muzzle-loading cannons. But you probably should check your local laws, and you absolutely should make sure your area is safe and expansive enough to handle what you're doing.

Sure don't want to pull one of these: http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...eseen-bounce/2011/12/08/gIQABK68fO_story.html
 
There's nothing illegal about setting off a cannon. They're not classified as explosive, no different than a black powder rifle.

And what, pray tell, is your source for such a broad claim? :scrutiny::D

I'm not busting your chops, but in my opinion you might want to be a bit more specific. I knew what you meant, but maybe not everybody understood. :D

There is nothing illegal at the Federal level about firing a black powder cannon with blanks...... you might find that launching an artillery projectile in the eyes of a local federal prosecutor was creation of an "explosive device".

As for the state and county level...., you again might find that launching a projectile from it is a no no, or even that such a device when firing blanks constitutes a "firework" and you are prohibited from doing that, not to mention noise ordinances, and the like. Then there's violations of fire restrictions such as "no burn bans" and the like.....

When you go from using compressed air to an actual explosion initiated by a spark or flame source, ...., stuff sometimes changes in the wording of the law.

So check locally before you shoot.

OH and be sure to freeze your fruit...., personal experience...., frozen oranges work great out of a cohorn mortar..., fresh ones make a sticky mess.


LD
 
There is nothing illegal at the Federal level about firing a black powder cannon with blanks...... you might find that launching a projectile in the eyes of a local federal prosecutor was creation of an "explosive device".

Please cite the law (or ATF letter) that says so. There is a difference between an explosive device (NFA Title II Destructive Device) and a blackpowder cannon.


Here's a good thread on that issue: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=511484
 
Steel Scuba tanks have a working pressure of between 2100-2500 psi. I believe that those "M" tanks use a working pressure of 4500 psi, at least the ones that we used to use on the boats for air cascades did. I'm sure that the idea will work probably at least once, but I'd have a fuse long enough to require binoculars to watch the thing go off.

If you do it, make sure that you document the first firing, by the way, I'd use a "cheap" camera just in case.
 
I do not know about your tanks but I am a firefighter and our tanks-the old steel ones-run at 2100 PSI or so. They are tested in a burst chamber at 5000 PSI as to rate of expansion. I agree that the pressure would be way too high for the wall thickness to be effective. I have a friend who made a cannon/mortar out of a piece of 2 inch 5000 PSI steam pipe. It has a wall thickness of 3 inches. He taper cut the wall at about 40 degrees and used about 15 LBS of welding rod to weld the cylinder to a 5/8 inch thick 16X16 steel plate. This one is safe to detonate from a distance----Yeah a full pound of black powder to a loading with a large paper bag for the wadding and the thing gets driven about 8 inches into the ground when it goes off. You do not want to stand closer than 50 feet to it due to the concussion/flash when pointing up.:D
These are older steel tanks in good condition made of chrome molybdenum steel, not aluminum. I was a paramedic for years before becoming a PA and am aware of the Scott packs used by fire departments. We used them too. Like scuba, the older ones were steel, aluminum has pretty much replace all these tanks in recent years.

My tanks are 72 cu ft tanks with a working pressure of 2250 psi. When they are hydro-tested, they are pumped up to 5/3s the working pressure and can't expand over a given amount at 3750 psi. This is not the burst level. I'm not sure of the burst strength but would be at least >3750 psi.

The mortar on the Pawn Shop episode was the same type of steel, only a bigger tank. The dive shop we use to patronize had a bank of these "M" size cylinders used to cut down on time to fill tanks.

My imagine is to cut 1/3 off the base, not using the valve end but the round end with a touch hole drilled resulting in more of a mortar look than a cannon look.

I like the idea of a sabot of lighter material encasing a denser mass. The diameter of my tank is more small cantaloupe size than bowling ball. Maybe a frozen tomato with a sabot around it might work. I saw an episode of Myth Busters where they used frozen chickens with an air cannon. Trouble with air cannons is the release valve is huge, plus there is little or no bang.

My neighbor has a much lighter apparatus than my proposed tank outfit powered by propane and shoots tennis balls. In my wayward youth, I made tennis ball cannons out of beer cans when they were not made from flimsy aluminum. Have to use bean cans now I guess. The way my beer can cannon worked was to cut the top and bottom out of about 5 cans, after drinking the beer. At that time in my life poring out the beer to get the cans was a no-no. Cut maybe 1/3 of the top out of one and put a small hole in the bottom using a church key. This was the breech or expansion chamber. Wrap the cans together with duct tape covering the back three cans with 4-5 layers of duct tape. Squirt about a cc of lighter fluid through the small hole in the breech portion of the thing. Roll it around good to get a fuel/air mixture, touch a cigarette lighter to the touch hole. Getting the fuel/air mixture right was the key to how far the tennis ball went.

The propellant on my proposed scuba tank mortar and how much is the question. I'm a bit concerned about using very much black powder though starting real low might be an option. Definitely no modern powders. Propane is a thought. The projectile would need to be something other than metal. Frozen vegetables are top on my list.

The Pawn Stars cannon had a re-enforcing ring around the muzzle or cut end. This must be needed to keep the muzzle from pealing back form a ragged cut.

The carriage for the thing would need to be robust beyond what would reasonably be needed to be safe. The guy in one of the above links using a folding chair was comical.

Thanks for the advice. I doubt I come up with a marketable design but might be fun trying.
 
I once built a tennis ball cannon out of an old automotive drive shaft. I cut off one end and dented it in about 3 inches above the bottom on two sides and drilled a flash hole near the bottom of tube. I mounted it to a metal frame that could pivot. Just drop a tennis ball in and using a oxy-acetylene setup with the cutting tip, get it going with a good blue flame then blow it out. Put the tip to the hole and count to 5 or so, remove the tip and relight it away from the cannon. Then put the tip back to hole to ignite. This produced a 30 foot long blue flame and would crack window panes in the near vicinity. Impressive till I ran out of tennis balls and went to buy some more.:eek:
 
My 2 aluminum scuba tanks have 3,000 and 3.300 psi rated fill pressures.
You can get tanks with 4,500 psi rated fill pressures.
You can have the scuba shop fill your 3,000 and 3,300 psi tanks to 3,300 and 3,600 psi, respectively, because the tank pressure drops after the fill air cools.
I use my 2 tanks for precharged pneumatic rifles that run on 3,000 psi.
You should be able to get steel tanks that hold at least 3,00 psi safely.

If I were going to use steel reinforcing bands on one, for BP mortar/cannon use, I'd use them to reinforce the breech, or the entire length, rather than just the muzzle. Your greatest pressure is not going to be at the muzzle.

The Confederate Brooke guns used 2 shrink fit reinforcing bands, one over the other, at the breech, to contain the heavy BP charges they used.

If you make it air powered and want to run on 3,000 psi, your best bet is to use scuba air or nitrogen instead of oxygen. You couldn't pay me enough to run one on O2.
Running O2 in precharged pneumatic rifles has resulted in the explosion of expensive PCPs.
I've seen pics of a nice Korean Sam Yang, Sumatra, Eun Jin, or Career (forget which) that was blown apart by filling/shooting it with O2.
 
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