I may have over-reacted...

[rbernie]

My instinct would NOT have been to stand ground, but to get the weapon onto the front seat and get mobile.

But that's just me, and there's no way of knowing that they would not have followed you as you left, and the resultant confrontation gotten even more goofy as you drove off. There is probably little worse than not being able to choose the ground upon which you must fight, and all that. So your course of action at least avoided THAT scenario.

In the end, the situation was ended early, and that is of considerable value.

 

[riceboy72]

It sounds like a firearm averted an ass-whuppin'.

Four summers ago, I pulled into an empty gravel lot to a park just off a well traveled street on my way home from a friend's house at 0400 to use the bathroom (couldn't wait to get home). Parked my truck, left it running, and wandered 20' to the woodline. As I'm in the middle of my business, a large, older, lifted Blazer drives by, stops as they pass the lot, then reverse and pull in, driving straight toward my truck.

They stopped roughly 100 feet from my truck, and both doors opened and I saw them get out. If anyone says you can't stop midstream, they are wrong. I got back to my truck, reached in and took out the Glock I had placed on the floorboard, and stepped just outside my open door with it at low ready. Their lights were illuminating my truck, so I was certainly well lit with no mistake with what was in my hand. While I couldn't see them for descriptions, I could see their bodies as they passed the front of the truck and became backlit by their own headlights. One of them yelled, "Oh s***, he's got a gun!" and they both ran back, hopped into the Blazer, backed out quickly and then sped off down the road.

I'm sure I was in for a butt whoopin', but I wasn't going to stand around to find out. No, I didn't call 911, and I don't think I needed to. Looking back, would I have called? Probably not, but that's just me. Did I think I reacted properly? Yes, I do. I shared my incident just to let you know what I did when faced with something similar. Have I learned from it? Oh, yes, I have.

I think reacted accordingly. You were the one in the situation, and you felt what you felt; we can all give you advice on what to do or what we would've done, but ultimately no one can understand how you perceived the situation but you. If you can articulate your actions and justify what you did, then worry not.

Important thing to realize is that you recognized something wasn't right and at least you reacted to it. You didn't freeze up and you weren't in condition white. It sounds like if malice were to come your way that day, you were ready and willing to fight your way out of it. While deadly force may not have been appropriate at that level, the presence of your pistol may have dissuaded them from targeting you.

 

[jad0110]

Glad everything turned out all right. Sounds like you handled it quite well.

In Colorado showing somebody a weapon so that they know not to screw W/ you is almost the EXACT definition of "brandishing"

The dude was correct in his actions. He was alert and aware of what was going on. He was prepared.

The mistake was showing them the gun. Yes, their intentions were odd, I would say sinister. But by FL law, he may have been in violation.

Same thing in NC. I wasn't in your situation, so my comments should be taken with a large dose of salt . Perhaps the only thing I would have done differently would be to draw the weapon and keep it out of sight. As others suggested, perhaps driving a different car to work (if you have one) or carpooling for the next few weeks is a wise idea. A little more extreme option would be to sell the truck and buy another for the same $$$, but I know that's a PIA. At least consider it though.

Retreat is always preferrable if their is an avenue for escape. I wasn't there, so again I wouldn't know. But being trapped a vehicle is a very dangerous place if you can't get away. Someone else posted the link to the Box 'O Truth site. The only half way decent cover a car offers from a firearm is to put the engine block between you and the assailant(s) if at all possible. Still a crappy place to be.

That said, if I was sure I could get away, I probably would have taken that option, pistol in hand.

Again, glad you came out unharmed.

 

[cowssurf]

I'm not going to say whether what you did was right or wrong. I think you know that best, and may very well have done the best thing you could have. With regards to the law, what you did was illegal. I see you're from Utah. So am I. Having just taken my CCW course, we went over a lot of these kinds of scenarios. According to Utah law, what you did was illegally brandish a firearm. You can get your CCW revoked and see jail time for that. In Utah, before you even pull out a gun, you have to have very good reason to believe you're being threatened with death or great bodily harm. In Utah (as per my state recognized CCW course) you can't even legally pull your gun if somebody's threatening to fight you with their fists. You can retaliate blow for blow, but no gun. I'm not saying I agree with that, but that is the law. Even if you think that is ridiculous, what you did was in reaction to a perceived threat not even close to the threat of a fist fight. Some guys (and I think your assessment of their nefarious intent is correct) were acting very bizarre, but as of yet, no jury or DA would've claimed you had a lawful reason to pull your gun.

All that said, I think you had to do what you felt you had to. Ultimately, you are the one responsible for your survival. Just know if a cop saw that, you could've been arrested for brandishing. As it stands, no harm no foul. And I think you were right to at least be ready with your gun. In a perfect world, you would've concealed the gun until you felt life or limb threatened. Of course, in that perfect world, these a-holes wouldn't be driving like maniacs and acting extremely peculiar.

 

[SuperNaut]

I ask the OP, were you ready to fire? While these men obviously were a passive threat, were they an active threat?

At the time I was 100% certain they were an active threat and I knew my life was in danger. One of the strange things I forgot to mention is that once they stopped neither of them said a single word to each other or made any gestures or head movements other than to keep staring as they drove past. As far as firing, I have no idea, honestly.

I'm sure it took longer to tell the story than the actual event itself. What was the total elapsed time frame? 10 seconds? 15? 20?

Yep, I figure the whole thing from the guy yelling to them leaving transpired in about 20 seconds.

But I have a question for you...Do the bad guys know that you armed yourself with a pistol hidden in your vehicle?

I doubt it, I had my eyes on the truck the whole time and I may have dipped oh, a half a foot to grab under the seat?

Any further description of the "Rydas" other than two males.

Oh boy, this is where all the studies on witness accuracy come into play. The driver was a hispanic male, late 20's, probably 210, closely cropped hair and goatee.

The passenger I didn't get a good look at other than to note that he seemed thinner than the driver and he wore a cap and was caucasian.

You have no idea what the guy yelled at you?

Nope, his engine was revving pretty loud as he whipped past.

What kind of truck was it?

Dark green early 90's Ford Ranger mid-size pickup with a matching shell. I noticed reddish faded factory pin-striping/decals and the paint was oxidizing lightly. Which makes me think it was an older model. yeah, I know, it is weird the things you notice and the things you don't.

When I retold the incident to my wife she asked "so when are you getting your CCW?" There was a lot more intense discussion, but I don't feel comfortable getting into it here.

 

[WeThePeople]

I should have gotten in my truck and driven away.

I agree 100% with you on this point! Taking my training and life experience into account, drawing my weapon is my second to last choice with the last being the trigger pull.

Getting into your truck and driving away was a perfectly accceptable option and one that certainly carries less serious consequences.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think that what you did was wrong. It's way too easy to give advice from the comfort of my couch!

 

[Pimpstar00]

But now they know you keep a gun in the car...

 

[SuperNaut]

They never saw me get it.

 

[C/O]

I was not there and I am not you, but from your story and diagram I think I would have gotten in my car (at the first sign of possible trouble) and driven away. The first question that would have been asked of you, would have been: If you felt like they were trouble, Why did you wait around?

That is my view, FWIW.

 

[David904]

Your gut told you that it was time to arm yourself.

Personally, I believe that if you don't listen to your gut, you are nine times out of ten, going to regret it. You picked up on hostile intent, and it sounds to me like you were right.

Was it right to let them see your gun? Were you brandishing?
It seems to me that in this situation, the best option would have been to escape in your vehicle. However, given some other mitigating factor that precluded that option, you had to stand your ground and make ready to defend yourself. By letting them see that they were approaching an armed man, it ended the encounter before it ever really started. Not letting them know that your were armed may have possibly made the encounter turn lethal.

If these guys had been on the up and up, they would have tried to make some sort of mollifying statements upon the realization that they had put you on your guard to this degree. Their response tells me that they wished you ill.

I have no idea about the legality of your actions, but think they were in line with what a reasonable person under duress could be expected to do.

 

[MedLogic]

"...what happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way."

You did exactly what "you" should have done that day. Some of us would have gone another way, but that's irrelevant to "your" situation. I believe in Morpheus’s philosophy "...what happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way." Let's face it, the guys were not lost, most likely intoxicated, and had no intention of holding you close while whispering sweet nothings in your ear...actually, now that I think about it...maybe they were. They were just out f-ing around looking for a way to amuse themselves. Maybe the sight of your gun forced them to reevaluate their plans for the evening.

You got home to your family safely....PERIOD.

"I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by six!"

 

[rrruuunnn]

i understand totally, why you exposed your gun. you should have called 911 so the cops can hear what's going on even after you put the phone down.

i read a book on using mace, and although mace is a different weapon. it said not to show the mace until you are going to use it. the bg guy should not see the mace coming. if the bg sees it, the spray is harder to use. i think that has some merit here with the gun. also, you will never know what they were up too. although, i'm 90% thinking up to no good. if you had chose not to show your weapon, you may have been forced to use it. so alhough brandishing is most often a negative, this time it was a positive.

 

[bigdaddydan]

you were right in being ready to defend your life and property but I would have played it cool and not shown them my weapon until you were in imminent danger but hind sight is just that sometimes the best thing you can do is listen to your gut and that is eactly what you did.

 

[packnrat]

supernaut:

you did good, i see no problem in what you did.

but the monday quaterback says you should have kept the gun hidden just a bit longer, only to keep it as a suprise if they tried something bad.


you slept in your bed, with no side trip to any other place...this is a good thing.



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